The Instigator
Rayze
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
GorefordMaximillion
Con (against)
Winning
12 Points

Questions debate

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
GorefordMaximillion
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/25/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,045 times Debate No: 27498
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (0)
Votes (4)

 

Rayze

Pro

This is to help me prep for a debate in a few weeks on universal healthcare.

The rules are simple.

There are; no sources, no trolling, and no semantics.

There is also no burden of proof.

Definitions are not required.

All arguments will typed in question form.

An example argument and response is provided below:

Argument; Is it fair for the government to dictate what goes on in a woman?

Response; Is it fair that an unborn baby should die because of a woman's "mistake"?

The limit is 8,000 characters with no limits on how many questions each opponent can ask.

No plagiarizing please.

disregarding rules and forfeiting will result in a concession.

R1 is acceptance only
R2 opening questions
R3 rebuttal questions
R4 rebuttal questions
R5 closing questions and final thoughts, or concession

In order to win each side must outmaneuver the other side with questions until one side either concedes or states an ineffective question.

Any questions before we begin?
GorefordMaximillion

Con

This looks like so much fun...

I had to accept!!!

I reserve the right to quote your questions in order to properly "align" my questions if necessary. (that way, there's no confusion if a question of mine is directly aimed at a question of yours.
Debate Round No. 1
Rayze

Pro

Thank you for accepting this debate.

I will start off with the following 3 questions.

1. Is it fair that insured Americans should pay for an increase medical costs in a hospital to pay for the treatment of uninsured Americans?

2. Is it fair to say that guaranteeing universal health care may bolster entrepreneurship, and encourage job growth?

3. Is it accurate to claim that medical costs contribute to 62.1% of American bankruptcies with 78% of people that filed for bankruptcy had medical insurance?
GorefordMaximillion

Con

How exactly does one define "universal health care?"

" 1. Is it fair that insured Americans should pay for an increase medical costs in a hospital to pay for the treatment of uninsured Americans?"

R1a. Is/should the medical system, or life for that matter, be "fair."
R1b. Who is to determine what is fair?
R1c. If it is determined what is fair and unfair, who should enforce/force the fairness?
R1d. Is it fair that uninsured Americans be forced to buy something they don"t want, and punish them when they don"t/can"t?
R1e. Is it fair to the for the profit hospitals to be legally forced to care for those who either cannot pay or are without health insurance when they will lose money and have to pass the costs on to paying customers?
R1f. Is it fair to force businesses, doctors, insurance companies and others to participate in a universal health care system whether they want to or not?
R1g. Is it right to force society to care for those who will not care for themselves?

"2. Is it fair to say that guaranteeing universal health care may bolster entrepreneurship, and encourage job growth?"

R2a. Does being fair matter?
R2b. Is it fair to say that guaranteeing universal health care may increase costs on businesses?
R2c. Is it fair to say that guaranteeing universal health care may stifle job growth and reduce new hiring due to increased cost?
R2d. Is it fair to say that guaranteeing universal health care may reduce competition and innovation in the health industry?
R3e. Is it worth considering entitlement programs have the potential to add jobs in the public sector at the cost of greater productivity in another part of the private sector?
R3f. Is it right to raise everyone"s taxes to pay for a universal health care system.
R3g. Is it feasible to create/have a universal health care system in America which doesn"t cost many jobs in the private insurance and hospital industry currently in place?

" 3. Is it accurate to claim that medical costs contribute to 62.1% of American bankruptcies with 78% of people that filed for bankruptcy had medical insurance?"

R3a. Do you realize medical costs really began to skyrocket when the government became involved in health care?
R3b. Is it right to think the high costs of health care will somehow disappear with universal health care?
R3c. Is it right to say people are entitled to health care?
R3d. Is it right to consider adding a new entitlement to an entitlement system that has $45.8 trillion in unfunded liabilities (for the federal government's entitlement programs) over the next 75 years?
R3e. Is it right to say "there is no free lunch?"
R3f. Is it right to worry about millions of new patients seeking mandatory checkups under a universal health care system when there is currently a doctor shortage in America an estimated 13,000 doctors, and is expected to balloon to 5-10 times that number by 2025?
R3g. Don"t we wonder how we will come up with all these new doctors we need, especially if we add millions of new patients to the rolls?
R3h. Will universal health care lower the incentive of people to become doctors, and pay their HUGE medical school bills, if the compensation they receive is greatly reduced in order to keep the system solvent?
R3i. Are people"s personal finances societies" problem?
R3j. Is bankruptcy because of health care received, better then dying because of health care not received?
R3k. Is it a good thing bankruptcy can dismiss medical costs?
R3l. Is for profit health care actually a good thing that increases innovation and competition?

And finally:

Is this the kind of debate you were looking/hoping for???

LOL
Debate Round No. 2
Rayze

Pro

My opponent has surpassed my expectations, and I am predicting that this will be a good debate or a one-sided one depending on my responses. However I am a little concerned with the questions regarding fairness (Questions: R1a, R1b, R1c, and R2a) and the definition of health care as these questions could be counted as semantics. Which would then throw out this debate much to my dismay.

While I ponder about which action I take, I will ask the following questions:

1. Isn't saving people the primary objective of doctors and hospitals?

2. Isn't the objective of an insurance company to compensate victims in exchange for a monthly or annual fee?

Due to lack of time in my schedule, my questions will be brief and short
GorefordMaximillion

Con

"My opponent has surpassed my expectations, and I am predicting that this will be a good debate or a one-sided one depending on my responses."
Thank you! This is definitely a good debate so far.
"However I am a little concerned with the questions regarding fairness (Questions: R1a, R1b, R1c, and R2a) and the definition of health care as these questions could be counted as semantics. Which would then throw out this debate much to my dismay."
I definitely am not focusing on the meaning of fair. I"m aiming more at what is to be considered fair, not what fair is; also, if it is important to be fair. I believe/hope all my questions made this clear.

" 1. Isn't saving people the primary objective of doctors and hospitals?"
R1a. Can a for-profit hospital that is out of business save anyone?
R1b. Will someone decide to become a doctor when they can't afford to be?
R1c. Don"t doctors and hospitals still save people even when they can't pay?
R1d. Is the primary objective of any for profit institution to stay in business so they can keep providing their services/goods?
R1e. If care is rationed, will less people be able to be saved?

2. Isn't the objective of an insurance company to compensate victims in exchange for a monthly or annual fee?
R2a. Isn't the true role of a medical insurance company to provide compensation only for a specified loss, not a routine occurrence?
R2b. If an insurance company is for-profit, and it will lose money and go out of business without caps on reimbursement amounts, is it not in the best interest of the company to set these caps?
R2c. Are consumers aware of these caps when they purchase the insurance?
R2d. If the cost of someone's care surpasses the reimbursement they pay for, who is responsible to pay the difference?
Debate Round No. 3
Rayze

Pro

Thank you for clarifying the issue of fairness (R3)

Can a for-profit hospital deny care to patients without health care or cash?

In the case of a monopoly care may be rationed, but wouldn't there be a lower chance of care being rationed if there were a universal health care system where privatized insurance agencies try to gain more consumers?

In a capitalistic economy insurance companies often compete for consumers right, so wouldn't new consumers check reimbursement amounts if health care is implemented?

Doesn't the organization Doctors Without Borders show that doctors can still save people through donations instead of fixed salaries and selling medical services?
GorefordMaximillion

Con

"Can a for-profit hospital deny care to patients without health care or cash?"

a.Is a for-profit hospital making any profit without receiving any money for its services?
b.Does a for-profit hospital stay in business without making any money?
c.Can a for-profit, or not-for-profit, hospital stay open while losing money?
d.Do I have to pay for another patient at a hospital when that person is not my responsibility?
e.Doesn"t our current law guarantee life saving care, even if the person can"t pay?
f.Should restaurants deny food to hungry people who can"t pay?
g.Should gas stations deny gas to someone who needs to get to work, but doesn"t have any money to put gas in their car?

" In the case of a monopoly care may be rationed, but wouldn't there be a lower chance of care being rationed if there were a universal health care system where privatized insurance agencies try to gain more consumers?"

a.In a doctor and hospital shortage, isn"t there a great chance of care rationing since there is not enough c are to meet demand?
b.Even if private insurance companies gain more customers, do they make money if a greater percentage of those customers- who would have been turned down before- cost more money in reimbursement then what they pay?
c.Is the purpose of insurance to pay for an event that is not unforeseen?
d.Can insurance companies create more hospitals and doctors to provide the services they are only contractually obligated to pay or co pay?
e.Does insurance coverage alone guarantee health care?

"In a capitalistic economy insurance companies often compete for consumers right, so wouldn't new consumers check reimbursement amounts if health care is implemented?"

a.Would insurance companies compete for customers they would lose money on?
b.With insurance covering more and more routine procedures, are most consumers even aware of the cost of these procedures?
c.Is it capitalistic to force a company to provide a service?
d.Is it capitalistic to force a person to buy something?
e.Isn"t the point of capitalism to make money?

" Doesn't the organization Doctors Without Borders show that doctors can still save people through donations instead of fixed salaries and selling medical services?"

a.Isn"t Doctors Without Borders completely (or almost completely) staffed with volunteers?
b.Can a non paid volunteer pay back medical school costs?
c.Can a non paid volunteer pay back engineering or other school costs?
d.Can a non paid volunteer pay back their bills to survive?
e.Even greatly expanded, could this organization handle the health care needs of a country like the U.S. ?
f.In most countries, doesn"t DWB focus on increasing the capabilities of local hospitals already in place?
Debate Round No. 4
Rayze

Pro

Again, I would like to thank you for accepting this debate.
I have gained valuable debate prep knowledge on healthcare which was exactly what I was hoping for.

Your questions in the previous round have put me in checkmate, therefore I must concede this debate.

To the readers I strongly urge a con vote.

Enjoy listening to Libera Me from Hell [Courtesy of Youtube]
(I apologise if it seems childish, but I love the 2 separate message the song displays)
GorefordMaximillion

Con

Again, I would like to thank you for accepting this debate.
I have gained valuable debate prep knowledge on healthcare which was exactly what I was hoping for."

I thank you also! This debate was a lot of fun actually and made me have to really think! I enjoyed it immensely.

I look forward to debating you again!
Debate Round No. 5
No comments have been posted on this debate.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Cometflash 4 years ago
Cometflash
RayzeGorefordMaximillionTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: This was pretty unique. CON played exactly how PRO wanted, and as PRO said, it exceed his expectation.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 4 years ago
RoyLatham
RayzeGorefordMaximillionTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: I don't like the "arguments in the form of a question" format at all because it means endless evasion, but it does show promises for a Q&A format. Con basically deluged Pro with questions to which Pro had no response. In any form of debate, it's not pible to win by leaving most o the opponents contentions unaddressed.
Vote Placed by Deathbeforedishonour 4 years ago
Deathbeforedishonour
RayzeGorefordMaximillionTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Wasn't a debate. But Con helped Pro so that deserves credit.
Vote Placed by One_Winged_Rook 4 years ago
One_Winged_Rook
RayzeGorefordMaximillionTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: wasn't really a debate, but points to goreford for helping rayze out... he did a good job