The Instigator
logicalmaster17
Con (against)
Losing
1 Points
The Contender
Cherymenthol
Pro (for)
Winning
14 Points

Quote debate

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Cherymenthol
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/23/2009 Category: Arts
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,181 times Debate No: 10215
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (9)
Votes (3)

 

logicalmaster17

Con

Hi, I would like to thank my future opponent and readers for taking your time to look at this debate. The rules are you must put at least 5 quotes, by 5 different people, and whoever has put the more interesting quote in the readers opinion, will win the round. Obviously there is no con, or pro, just who has the better quotes. However I will let my opponent begin, and you have the option of attacking your opponents quotes, showing either how yours are better, or theirs doesn't make any sense.

Good luck! (:
Cherymenthol

Pro

I thank my opponent for presenting this "Debate" and look forward to it.

"I often quote myself. It adds spice to my conversation."
George Bernard Shaw

"Ich bin ein Berliner"
John F. Kennedy (May he R.I.P)

"Scientists say because of global warming they expect the world's oceans to rise four and a half feet. The scientists say this can mean only one thing - Gary Coleman is going to drown."
Conan Obrien

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm."
Sir Winston Churchill

"A single death is a tragedy; a million deaths is a statistic."
Joseph Stalin
Debate Round No. 1
logicalmaster17

Con

Thanks for the prompt response, this ought to be a very interesting debate. :)

Happiness is not an ideal of reason, but of imagination.
-Immanuel Kant

Fear is the mother of morality.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

It's a recession when your neighbor loses his job: it's a depression when you lose yours.
-Harry S. Truman

A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
-Winston Churchill

A lady came up to me on the street, pointed at my suede jacket and said, "Don't you know a cow was murdered for that jacket?" I said, "I didn't know there were any witnesses. Now I'll have to kill you too".
-George Carlin, (R.I.P)

My opponents quotations:

In my opponents first quotation he decided to pick, one great man. However, he picked a quote, that really does not mean anything, it has no humor, or meaning to life, therefore this quote is inferior to mine. Also, there are many translations of what this actually means, so we can not look to it

In my opponents second quotation he decides to make fun of Gary Coleman, and he says the oceans will rise to 4 and one half feet, and he will drown. Firstly, he wouldn't drown because Gary Coleman is 4 foot 7, http://www.celebheights.com.... Also, there is no need to make fun of someone.

My opponents third quotation comes from Winston Churchill, and it is about failure. However, my quote from him, is better, and is more realistic. No one is enthusiastic about failing.

My opponents fourth quotation comes from one of the most evil men ever in the history of the world. He slaughtered his own people, and was just an evil person. Also this quote DE-humanizes people, so it should not be looked to.

I stated in the introduction that each side would present 5 quotations, and my opponent only has 4, so there is nothing to refute. Note that my opponent must present 5 more quotations during his turn, by 5 different people. Whether or not he attacks my quotations is up to him.

Good luck, and I look forward to the future rounds in this debate.
Cherymenthol

Pro

Refutation
==================================================================

1) First we can extend my George Bernard Shaw quote because it was left unattacked, and because its funny.

2) has one definition, "I am a Berliner" (http://en.wikipedia.org...) therefore we can disregard the argument about how there are too many definitions. Furthermore the importance of this quote is vast being that it services the purpose to commemorate a terrific president who was shot November 22, 1963 (http://en.wikipedia.org...). Furthermore the fact the the celebration of the tearing down of the Berlin wall just recently (November 9th exactly) further explains the import of this quote.
(http://www.bargaintraveleurope.com...)

3) My opponent never explained why it was bad to make fun of someone therefor we may assume that their is no hard in "making fun of". Furthermore Gary Coleman would drown because even though he might be 4 feet 7 inches, his mouth still lies beneath the waterline therefor making him susceptible to drowning.

4) I will refute his quote in a moment, however as shown through my quote Winston Churchill was enthusiastic at loss and saw it as an opportunity, him being someone, this quote still stands.

5) This quote does not dehumanize individuals rather it points out the sad and ironic truth in the way we look at death.

==================================================================
Attack
==================================================================

1) I will further negate this quote when i discuss the second however, Immanuel Kant is notorious for not having internal warrants to support his sayings, a classic example would be this quote, therefor it is not true so we drop it.

2) Observers please disregard this quote in its entirety for several reasons:

A) this quote contains no internal warrants and therefore can not be proven true.
B) Nietzsche was a racist, a blatant hypocrite, and an unstable psychotic.
C) Nietzshe's philosophies have strong ties to Hitler's rise, and it is how Hitler justifies his actions, therefor in accepting the quote you are accepting Hitler's logic.
D) The entire concept of the quote is preposterous, the purpose of morality is seeking pure altruistic ways of living life and fear does not spawn these.
E) One Nietsche's works entitled "Campaign against Morality" is used to express his criticism for other moral schemes the most prominent of which is Immanuel Kant's works, and by using this quote along with Kant my opponent becomes somewhat hypocritical.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

3) This quote is untrue, the definition of a recession is a period of an economic contraction, sometimes limited in scope or duration while comparatively the definition of depression is a period during which business, employment, and stock-market values decline severely or remain at a very low level of activity. In no way, shape, form can any individual infer that a recession occurs when a neighbor looses there job and a depression when you do. Finally the association between a lost job and an unstable economy is unfair, people lose the jobs everyday and using the economy as a scapegoat is shameful.
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)

4) Now in order for my opponents quote to be entirely true my previous quote from Churchill must also be true. This is why, When one encounters failure they are placed with a difficult option to give up and stop, what the pessimist might do, or to see it as an opportunity and not break stride, just as the optimist would do. Therefor when someone sees failure as an opportunity and approaches it with enthusiasm they are being optimistic. Therefor in order to consider this quote we must regard mine as true. (Note that Optimist is a synonym to enthusiast, thereby further strengthening my argument)
(http://thesaurus.reference.com...)

5) My opponent's quote is not true for the most part seeing as suede is primarily made with lamb leather. Also Their is no evidence to support George Carlin's claim of actually killing a cow to make this jacket either, proving once again the incorrect nature of the quote.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

==================================================================
Quotes
==================================================================

"Birth is the sudden opening of a window, through which you look out upon a stupendous prospect. For what has happened? A miracle. You have exchanged nothing for the possibility of everything."
William MacNeile Dixon
"I heard a joke once: Man goes to doctor. Says he's depressed. Says life is harsh and cruel. Says he feels all alone in a threatening world. Doctor says, "Treatment is simple. The great clown Pagliacci is in town tonight. Go see him. That should pick you up." Man bursts into tears. Says, "But doctor... I am Pagliacci." Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains."
Rorschach

"Ever wonder about those people who spend $2 apiece on those little bottles of Evian water? Try spelling Evian backward."
George Carlin

"A word to the wise ain't necessary. It's the stupid ones who need the advice."
Bill Cosby

Communism is like prohibition, it's a good idea but it won't work.
Will Rogers

I agree this will be an interesting "Debate"
Debate Round No. 2
logicalmaster17

Con

REFUTATIONS: I am refuting my opponent refutations, I am going in order.

1) My opponent extended his first quote, however this was refuted in the comments section, and my opponent accepted this, so this extension can not stand.

2) I agree, there is one definition drop my argument. However, I think this was not the main part of his speech, so not by reading this one quotation, can you see the meaning. And not by this quote can we differ anything from it, since the whole speech has to be used, to truly grasp the meaning of it.

3) My opponent claims that I did not specify a reason not to make fun of someone, but do I really even have to? It's just senseless, obnoxious, and just childish, to jab at other people without a reason. Also my opponent has no prove that he would still drown, even though he was taller, and even if this was true, he could breath through his nose. So the Gary Coleman quote has no logic.

4) I do this with his Churchill quote.

5) Do you honestly think that Stalin, was pointing out a flaw in humanity? That was the way Stalin looked at it which made him an evil man. My opponent said we can look to Nietzsche because he was a bad person, and Hitler adopted his ideas, and if you accept the quote you accept Hitler, well this is just the same. If you accept this quote you accept Stalin's views, because this is how he viewed it, therefore we can not look to this. You can extend how I said he was evil, this was not refuted.

MY QUOTATIONS:

1) Why do I need internal warrants, this is what my opponent said against my Kant quote, but he never specified why I need internal warrant so the voters can disregard this point.

2) A: No matter, apparently to my opponent Stalin is acceptable, therefore Nietzsche is acceptable.
B: Stalin killed his people, and was a main cause in WWII, who is better? And even so this does not disregard the fact that he had a great mind, and had great teachings.
C: My opponent does not provide any proof, that this specif teaching has ties to Hitler, therefore you can not look to it, even if some have ties to Hitler, does not mean that his specif quote has ties to him.
D: My opponent states that fear has nothing to do with morality, which is making the wrong and right decisions. However fear of an outcome can compel you to make a decision therefore, it does, therefore this argument can be dropped.

3) My opponent states that this quote is untrue, I have two responses:
1) This quote was not meant to be taken literally, however to ponder over it.
2) It just shows the flaws in society, how everyone by nature is self centered, and selfish at heart. Obviously it is not true by the definition of recession, but it shows the selfishness of mankind.

4) First of all you can extend the fact, that his Churchill quote is unrealistic, because no one is happy about failing, therefore all this offense is taken out. Mine just makes more sense, if I am a pessimist, I say this is so hard, if I am an optimist, I say I will gain from this. In your quote you say, I just failed, and I'm happy. That just makes no sense. My quote is more realistic, and contains more logic.

5) Yes I agree some are made of lamb, but if you look at the same article, it can be made out of a cow. Also he said there is no evidence of George Carlin actually killing a cow, what? This was supposed to be a funny quote, because it shows how people wear animal skins, and they have to kill the animals, and that is essentially murder. And there are so many witnesses, and nobody cares! So I don't need evidence, this was a joke, you can extend my quote, and I urge a ballot for me.
------------------------My opponent's new quotes-------------------------

1) There are a couple problems with this.
1) Not everyone view a birth as a miracle, people find it to be a curse, and that is why there are abortions, and even they kill the babies outside of the womb. So the logic in this quote is just flat out wrong.

2) I think this is supposed to be funny, but I don't find it funny at all. And secondly, some people are afraid of clowns, or just don't find them funny. So this is not true for all people, therefore you can disreragd it.

3) You are not naive just for spending two dollars on water,
1) The quote never specifies how much water it is, it could be 100 gallons, that would be a good deal to me, and secondly people may find the taste better, and would be willing to sacrifice the extra money.

4) There are a few promblems,
1) Is there such thing as a mortal who knows everything, no there is not. Therfore the wise need can gain more knowledge at any time, so they should have the ears open. Also this sets a bad precedent, because this leads to only helping stuggling people, and not paying attention to the stronger ones.

5) Voters, you can not look to this quote because he never states why they wont work, therefore this lacks informations so we can not look to it.

MY QUOTES:

1. Barack Obama will appeal to both black and white voters in America. White voters who'll think he's Tiger Woods.
-Frankie Boyle

2. If you can count your money, you don't have a billion dollars.
J. Paul Getty

3. Happiness: We rarely feel it.
I would buy it, beg it, steal it,
Pay in coins of dripping blood
For this one transcendent good
-Amy Lowell

4. "Have the courage to live. Anyone can die."
-Robert Cody

5. "In the first place, God made idiots. That was for practice. Then he made school boards."
- Mark Twain

I urge a con ballot!

Thank you readers and opponent for looking at this debate. I am sorry for the late response, as you know Thanksgiving is tomorrow and I had buisness to attend to. I look forward to the rounds ahead, and so far this has been a very interesting 'debate', and I look forward to more.
Cherymenthol

Pro

No new quotes and new attacks on un-attacked quote/refutations.

Refutations

(1st Set)

1) Yes I did accept the fact that an argument was presented in the comments, but my opponent did not refute the attack I made to his attack, therefore we can still extend my quote because the refutation was left un-attacked.
(http://www.debate.org...)
(Please note the time of the post vs. time of any new arguments he may add to the comments section)

2) While not the main part of his speech, it was the climax, JFK attempted to connect with the people of Berlin, throughout his speech, and clearly, we can understand the purpose of the speech in this one line. Therefore while the whole speech behind the quote would provide for better knowledge, the quote can stand for itself and still carry the brunt of the speeches meaning.

3) Logic stands because both, nose and mouth, would be underwater. Furthermore, my opponent has still not showed why it is wrong to make fun of people, and seeing as he used a stand up comedian for a quote he obviously agrees insults are fine if they bring laughs. So it stands.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

4) I will also do so in Churchill debate.

5) Regardless of whether or not Stalin may have been evil his quote still can be put into context. It is different Stalin did not use his quotes to support his reign of terror, or at least the one I am using. Furthermore, quote is true when we look at the philosophy "Utilitarianism" and how this is exactly what is does.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

(2nd Set)

1) The part about killing babies and abortion does not take matter because the quote is in the 1st person context (the baby) not the mother/parent. Furthermore regardless of whether people this birth is a curse the quote remains true, we have exchanged nothing for the possibility of everything.

2) As in the movie the Watchmen, this is not suppose to be funny, as my opponent agrees. His argument about clowns is obscure and he is avoiding the meat of the quote. The purpose of the quote is to show how people where (figurative) masks to mask their true feelings sometimes. And remember there was no actual attack on the quote, as a matter of fact my opponent agreed it wasn't funny, and that was the purpose of the quote to not be funny rather alerting.
3) Ah but alas individuals are Naive for buying Evian water, it is a notorious fact that these water companies steal water from the public, bottle and sell it, and the fact the population is buying their own water makes them naive. Also the amount is specified a bottle and as far as I am aware Evian does not make 100 gallon, it further specifies a tiny bottle, as well as the equivalent of 2 dollars. and finally in the comments section of this debate my opponent thought that this was a good quote, and how could he argue with something he finds good without becoming a hypocrite, therefore for the sake of his decency, we will ignore this entire argument and extend the quote.
(Please note how George Carlin uses Evian to represent and industry, and the irony of the situation)
(http://www.evian.com...)
(http://www.debate.org...)
(http://www.msnbc.msn.com...)

4) My opponent never says why the wise need to gain more knowledge. Furthermore my opponent is skewing the quote, the quote is meaning that you don't have to give the intelligent the advice, because its the dumb that need it more. Which face it is true, my opponents next statement is quite cynical, this sets a bad precedent, because this leads to only helping struggling people, and not paying attention to the stronger ones. First its untrue, because Cosby is not saying never to give advise to the wise, give it to the those who need it, secondly why is bad to educate people and ignore those who don't need to relearn things they know. Furthermore while one maybe wise in certain areas, he might not be in others, same goes for stupid individuals, therefore everybody would learn what they need know if we follow this mantra.

5) My opponent says we can't look to my quote because I didn't say how it would work, obviously I didn't because it is a quote. Also a history of both reflects the truth in the quote.
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)
(http://en.wikipedia.org...)

Onto my opponents quotes in the same order as I refuted mine.

1st set

1) Warrant is why something is true, therefore no warrant no truth. So we can still see how Kant does not back up what he says therefore we can count it.

2) A: Refer to Stalin argument, but still drop Nietzsche.
B:that he had a great mind, and had great teachings, I showed how Nietzsche was insane in my link, therefore we can drop the quote prima face.
C: All his works impacted Hitler in some way, refer to link.
D: Decisions does not mean morality, and so the argument makes no sense.

3) In this debate we have been considering every quote as true, this is no exception, we can extend my factual arguments. This is merely an interpretation of the quote, and their was no link to the quote to warrant the interpretation, so please disregard

4) Refer back to argument of last round, if we extend His Churchill we extend mine. Also he refereed to himself so will I, i see failure as an opportunity for success, if I fail I put on a big, optimistic, smile and try, try again. Therefore my quote is true.

5) As my opponent tried to say with my Rorschach quote, I didn't find it funny, therefore the entire premise of his refutation falls because it wasn't funny. Also PETA cares about furs, leather so people do care. Also suede began with Lamb not cow, and it is only fair to assume lamb.

2nd set

1) I am white (or if I was black), I do no think he is Tiger woods, nor really have an appeal to him. Also if Barrack Obama appealed to both blacks and Whites he would have gotten their ballots however their is proof that he didn't receive neither every black ballot, or white ballot. Also his ratings are slipping meaning his is loosing appeal, not getting (Note quote is in future tense).
http://thehill.com...

2) One can count up to a billion, so the quote makes no sense, also what if a man would couldn't count inherited a billion dollars? This would mean he couldn't count it but he would still have a billion dollars.

3) My opponent cites Optimists who have a happy outlook on all of life, therefore to say that we don't feel happy would lead one to conclude Optimists were not people. Seeing as they are the quote is not true.

4) How is their courage in purchasing groceries, sleeping, or brushing one's teeth, their is none. Hence to assume that Courage is taken to conduct these trivialities is absurd.

5) Their is compelling evidence to support the theory of evolution and that God did not make people (idiots), so he couldn't have practiced on idiots nor created school boards
http://www.talkorigins.org...

Thank you I urge a ballot in my favor
Debate Round No. 3
logicalmaster17

Con

I'm very sorry, but I will have to forfeit this debate round. This has been a very good debate, but I'm sorry, I'm going to have to forfeit. I have matters to attend to.

Thank you
Cherymenthol

Pro

Thank you for the debate it was spirited and enjoyable, I hope the "matters of consequence" you must deal with sort out in your favor. Thank you and due to the forfeit please vote PRO, or for me.
Debate Round No. 4
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by boxxybabee 7 years ago
boxxybabee
I love how CON cops out with a forfeit excuse.
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
I voted PRO in sources.

Quotes that I thought were well refuted:

from CheryMenthol:
Winston Churchill
Dixon
Rorschach

from logicalmaster17:
Robert Cody

That being said, I think PRO's rebuttals were much better, but CON just picked better quotes, so I didn't vote in arguments.
Posted by logicalmaster17 7 years ago
logicalmaster17
u vote 4 whos quotes stood up better than the opponent
Posted by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Do I vote for the person with the most interesting quote or the person whose quotes were more interesting overall?
Posted by logicalmaster17 7 years ago
logicalmaster17
no new quotations in the debate, it wouldnt work.
Posted by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
Hahaha what do you mean by that, thanks i guess?
Posted by logicalmaster17 7 years ago
logicalmaster17
lol, nice george carlin quote
Posted by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
To refute that, That is still quoting yourself
Posted by logicalmaster17 7 years ago
logicalmaster17
oops, didnt see your first quote.

Here is the refutation. He states that by quoting himself adds spice to the conversation, you can not quote yourself, just come up with something on the spot.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
logicalmaster17CherymentholTied
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Vote Placed by Korashk 7 years ago
Korashk
logicalmaster17CherymentholTied
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Vote Placed by Cherymenthol 7 years ago
Cherymenthol
logicalmaster17CherymentholTied
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Total points awarded:07