The Instigator
AliHussein
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
brontoraptor
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Quran(pro) vs Bible(con)

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 0 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/4/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 3 months ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 621 times Debate No: 94446
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (46)
Votes (0)

 

AliHussein

Pro

This debate is to compare the two Holy books of the Islam and Christianity with Pro taking the side of the Qur'an and Con taking the side of the Holy Bible, the debate would discuss:
1-Historical proof that the Holy Book was unaltered and didn't face corruption.
2- Any phenomenon or miracle appearing in the Holy Book.
3-A comparison of the message the two Holy books contain.
First round is for acceptance, good luck :)
brontoraptor

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
AliHussein

Pro

Peace be upon you all; first of all I would like to show some Scientific info recorded in the Quran 1400 years before being discovered by scientist:
1-The expansion of the universe :And it is We Who have constructed the skies with might, and verily, it is We Who are steadily expanding it. (Qur'an, 51:47)
2- The Big Bang theory :Have those who disbelieved not considered that the heavens and the earth were a joined entity, then We separated them, and made from water every living thing? Then will they not believe?” (Quran 21:30) Here tbe Quran states that the Universe was One piece together as the Arabic words stated "rataqan" and then exploded "fa fataqnahuma" ; a fact discovered recently.
3- Rotation of the Planet Earth: (The Noble Quran, 27:88) this verse clearly states that the mountains (part of Earth) aren't stable as we see them but "tarkod" meaning "to be in motion" thus tbe Quran affirms Earth's rotation.
4-Evolution : It's well known that living beings passed through what's known as evolution as humans were another species known as "Home Erectus" and now due tk evolution we are Homo Sapians and still undergoing evolution and our physical features are always changing and so the Quran says in chapter 6 verse 33Your Lord, the Rich and Merciful, if He wishes, can discard you and succeed you with "WHATEVER" He wishes; Just like He created you from the seed of another "kawm" meaning other people and so God clearly says that He created us from another species (Homo Erectus) and will put us in the future in another species (which is evolution)
5-Spherical shape of Earth: (Quran 39:5)[Allah] Created the heavens and the Earth in truth. He overlaps [Yukawer in Arabic] the night over the day and overlaps [Yukawer يُكَوِّرُ]the day over the night, and enslaved the sun and the moon." the word "Yukawer" means overlaps in a form of a ball, thus the verse says the overlapping of Day and night is in a ball form which is impossible unless the Earth is ball (spherical) it's also in Surat Al rum ( And the Earth and He "Dahaha" which means made it round according to Arabic Old Dictionary Lisan Al Arab "Daha" means circle.
5-Ozone layer in the Quran: in Cahpter Al Tariq, God swears "by the sky which returns/reflects" relating to the Ozone role in reflecting the radiations of Sun. Also it's notable tnay in Chapter Al Kahf God says "and he reached a nation which had no protection "Ozone layer" from the Sun " which shows that God made for us a protection from Sun.
6-Embryology: in Chapter Al furqan Hod describes thr embryo as "Alaqa" which has three meanings. 1-Something "clinged" and actually the embryo is hanged in the womb clinged to placenta.
2- A leach since it is as if it sucks blood from its mother since the embryo really takes nutrients from his mother's blood through placenta. and
7- in Chapter Al Alaq God describes the forehead as "Lying, sinning forehead" and it was discovered that the brain part responsible for taking decision of being truthful or lying is located in the forehead.
8-The Black Holes : Chapter Al Shams God swears by " Those that are invisible, which are moving/rotating and that are sweeping" well this is a full description of the black holes which are really invisible and rotating and sweep things up( they absorb/destroy planets, stars so on..)
9- 8 planets in the solar system: Chapter Al Talaq "He created tbe Earth and like it 7 others" which shows that God created 7 planets SIMILAR to earth (ie also rotating around the sun) and in the same solar system thus the Quran says we have Earth and other 7 planets in the solar system.
10- The light of the Sun: Science revealed that Sunlight isn't as shiny as we see it here in our planet which is due to some gases in our atmosphere making it appear shiny and in Surat Al Shams :"And by the Sun and its dawn, and by the moon when it comes after (during night) and by the earth sky when it makes it (sun) glow.
Now I have more such as creation of living beings fromw water as in 21:30 and all living beings are 70%-80% water! I just want my opponent to tell me if the Quran is false, then how did Mohammed know all these scientific facts in 6th Century Arabia ? Good luck :)
brontoraptor

Con

Jesus fulfilled 365 Jewish prophecies of their future Messiah.



*

Denying that Jesus is the Son of God is Antichrist by Biblical definition.


1 John 2:22
"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist, denying the Father and the Son."


1 John 2:23
"No one who denies the Son has the Father."


About Jesus-
(Revelation 19:16)
"KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."


(Revelation 17:14)
"These will wage war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful."


In the hadith (Sahih-Al-Bukhari Bk 73; Num 224) Mohammed said, "The most awful name in Allah"s sight on the Day of Resurrection, will be (that of) a man calling himself Malik Al-Amlak (the King of kings)."


*


Muhammed and demons-
Here is the story told by Muhammad's wet-nurse, related in Guillaume's translation of Ibn Ishaq, page 72:


"His father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears. -" She asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her." When she asked if I feared a demon had possessed him, I replied that I did.""

*


(Antichrist)The beast


(Revelation 13:16)
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark on their right hand, or on their foreheads.


Many Muslims are looking for a beast of the Earth who will mark foreheads.




*


And when the Word is fulfilled against them, we shall produce from the earth a beast to face them: He will speak to them, for that mankind did not believe with assurance in Our Signs."


"R01;Qur'an, sura 27 (An-Naml), ayat 82


In the Biblical book of Revelation there are 2 beasts. One is the False Prophet. He directs his followers to worship the other beast (Antichrist) and renounces Jesus as the "Son of God".




*


The beast (Antichrist) is set up at the Temple Mount proclaiming himself as God. He opposes Christians and has them beheaded.


Revelation 13:6-8


6He opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And those that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb."


2 Thessalonians 2:4
"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."


The Dome of the Rock bares a full fledged antichrist inscription.


"It befitteth not the Majesty of Allah that he should have a son."


Link to the full inscription-



*

Revelation 13:17
..had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


Revelation 13:18
Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of his name; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.


Walid Shoebat, ex Muslim, tells us 666 in Greek reads "In the name of Allah" in Arabic.


(Video)



*

In the Bible, the followers of the Antichrist bow to an image.


Revelation 20:4


Muslims do bow to an image.


(Video proof)


http://youtu.be...


And what makes this an oddity Biblically is Muslims claim the "God of Abrsham" yet ignore his command to "never bow to a sacred stone".


Acts 2:17
In the last days, your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.


Muslims everywhere are claiming to see the divine Jesus in dreams and converting.




*


Antichrist's followers behead Christians-


Revelation 20:4
And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.


ISIS is beheading Christians in droves.




Matthew 24:21
Then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been nor ever will be again.


Christians are being genocided for their faith in the Middle East.




Matthew 24:14
Gospel preached worldwide


2 Thessalonians 2:3
Then a rebellion against and falling away from God.


2 Peter 3:3
Finally, mass mocking of God.


Any doubt? Let's go to the OT.


Genesis 17:1
But my covenant I will establish with Isaac.


God chose no covenant with Ishmael's descendents. Why?


Genesis 16:12
He will be a wild man; his hand will be against everyone and everyone's hand against him.


Muslims claim Ishmael as the Father of Muhammed, The Father of the Arabs, and the Father of Islam.


www.answering-christianity.com/blog/index.php?topic=1341.0


In the Biblical book of Revelation all of the nations that Christ fights in the end times are Islamic. Quite a guess considering at the time of the prophecy, Islam would not exist for another 700 years, and some parts of the now Islamic Middle East were a part of the Roman Empire. Quite a good guess considering it was the Romans and Jews causing problems for Christians at the time the prophecy was written. Then Muhammed came riding onto the scene to fulfill Biblical prophecy about the Antichrist(The fake god-like Messiah spawn of Satan) and the false antichrist prophet renouncing Jesus as the Son of God.

Mystery Babylon is Mecca-


(Video)


http://youtu.be...


In Revelation, Isaiah, and Jeremiah we find that the beast hates a city that it refers to as a harlot. This great city "by the Red Sea" is a part of the beast system yet is abominable to its neighbors to the North(Elam)(Modern day Iran). Most everything about Mecca enrages the Iranian Shiites from not being protected on hajj to massive showings of wealth and overabundance around the Great Mosque of Mecca. In the Bible Iran burns Arabia with fire in the end times.
Debate Round No. 2
AliHussein

Pro

Well, my opponent couldn't refute the sciencitfc miracles I stated that prove the Divine origin of the Quran and so goes on to use the Bible to prove that the Qur'an is false; although I stated in the 1st debate that we're questioning the Origin of Bible and Qur'an and so tbe Bible too is under the test, and thus my opponent can't use the Bible to falsify the Qur'an UNLESS he shows sicienitifc phenomena stated in the Bible equivalent to those I stated. Indeed, here are some errors and contradictions in the Bible which denies its Divine Origin:
1- The author of the book of Psalms is so confused; he states that the Earth and Heavens will perish at the End of times (110:25) while in Psalms (78:69) he states that tbe Earth will abide for ever.So can it be both ? Earth perishing and abiding forever ? Well the author may have a point.
2- Heleoing leprosy, in Leveticus (14:49) God orders sprinkling houses with BIRD'S BLOOD to disinfect Leprosy, well it seems that the author didn't know that blood is a fertile soil for spreading infections as well as he advocates it as a method of curing. So God seems he wants to kill it not cure it.
3- Leveticus (12:1-5): the Bible states that a woman is unclean after bringing a male child for 40 days while female child for 80 days so can you tell me a scientific explanation of how does bringing a baby girl makes you double "unclean" BTW that's too sexsit.
4- the Book of Ezra. and Nehimiah dp contradict each other several times when narrating the same historical event; for example Ezra. 2:65 states 200 singing men and women while in the same event Nehimiah 7:67 states 245 signing men and women. Seems like God is confused in counting ?
5- (2 kings 24:8) states that Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he started to reign Jerusalem while (2 Chronicals 36:9) states that he was 8 years old when he reigned. Any explanation ?
6- (1Kings 7:26) Solomon's temple had 2000 baths while (2 Chronicles 4:5) it had 3000. Contradiction.
7-Now to the New Testament- Gospel Mathew 1:18 says that Jacob is Father of Joseph while Luke 3:23 states that the father of Joseph is Heli. Seems that thr two Apostles weren't receiving the same "Holy" Spirit.
8-

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
Those are enough to prove my point, although I have more. Goodluck :)

brontoraptor

Con

"Neil Degrasse Tyson vs Muslim"

(Video)

http://youtu.be...

Pro:
"UNLESS he shows scienitifc phenomena stated in the Bible equivalent to those I stated."

There are at least 17 Bible verses about God expanding the universe. Muhammed stole the concept, as he stole many Biblical concepts like Adam and Eve, Noah, Isaac and Ishmael, Moses, Jesus, Hell, Satan, etc. If the Bible is crap, Islam is pretty much screwed logically, seeing the Bible came first.

"I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded."
Isaiah 45:12

He spreads out the heavens over empty space; he suspends the earth upon nothing.
Job 26:7

http://www.creationists.org...

*

Pro:
"The author of the book of Psalms is so confused"

That's why a new heaven and new Earth are made that do reside forever.

Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
Revelation 21:1

*

"states that Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he started to reign Jerusalem while (2 Chronicals 36:9) states that he was 8 years old when he reigned"

I was 5 when I started school. I was18 when I finished school.

-

Pro:
"states 200 singing men and women while in the same event Nehimiah 7:67 states 245 signing men and women."

More guests arrived. That's typical at a party or social event.

*

Pro:
"Solomon's temple had 2000 baths while (2 Chronicles 4:5) it had 3000. Contradiction."

He added on.

*

Pro:
"Jacob is Father of Joseph while Luke 3:23 states that the father of Joseph is Heli."

Levirate marriage

https://en.m.wikipedia.org...

*

Pro:
"2CH 9:25 vs 1KI 4:26"

They are about different time periods during his reign. Kingdoms tend to get bigger over time.

*

Muhammed did not understand how the sun worked...because he was a goat herding, illiterate, demon posessed, child molesting neanderthal according to?...

Himself.

*

Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.
Qur'an 18:86

Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.
Quran 18:90

*

Muhamned did not understand the difference between stars and meteorites...

And verily We have beautified the world's heaven with stars/lamps, and We have made them missiles for the devils, and for them We have prepared the doom of flame.
Qur'an 67:5

Except such as snatch away something by stealth, and they are pursued by a flaming fire, of piercing brightness.
Qur'an 37:10

*

"And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?"
Qur'an 71:16

The moon is not a light, nor does it emit light. It reflects light from the sun. Satan doesn't understand science like God, so his Quran is scientifically flawed.

*

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon."
Sahih Bukhari 4:56:831

The moon shows no signs of ever splitting.

*

"Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and the earth in six days."
Quran 7:54

Muhammed stole this from the Bible, so he'd better hope the Bible is right.

*

Muhammed thought the Earth's reality was flat not spherical.

"Allah is He who created 7 heavens one above the other like a dome, and of the Earths, the like thereof, 7 planets but they are flat
Tafsir Ibn-Abass

A hadith suggests that these are seven earths stacked above each other.

*

The universe consists of hundreds of billions of galaxies, each with hundreds of billions of stars. There is no such thing as seven layers to the universe.

This myth of seven heavens was a common idea prevalent in the Middle East during the time when the Qur'an was first recited.

See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another.
Qur'an 71:15

Muhammed created a religion mixed with ancient Babylonian paganism, Christianity, and Judaism. The Kaaba itself is an ancient Hindu shiv temple.

*

Pro:
"And the moon darkens And the sun and the moon are joined"
Qur'an"75:8-9

Actually it's an eclipse. They do not join.

*

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle said, "Treat women nicely, for a women is created from a rib."
Sahih Bukhari 4:55:548

Obviously from the Bible in Genesis. Muslims need the Bible to be right or Islam is hinged on fairytales that Muhammed stole.

*

Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: 'Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time.'

Obviously from the Bible.

*

And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction.
Qur'an 51:49

Many creatures are asexual...



The point? The story is insane. Muhammed was demon posessed as a child, was tricked by Satan into manifesting the Satanic verses, and then was temporarily convinced the guest in the cave in Medina was a demon, then decided to hurl himself off a cliff. Then? A man faced steed named Baraq(not Obama) was ridden by him hopping from mosque to mosque...then he "thighed" 6 year old Aisha, then at age 9 humped her into submission like a real woman, like a moaning hound really...and he beheaded 800+ Jews in one battle, then claiming the moral highground on nations in the now "West". Yet, strangely these Western nations have prospered in wealth and power beyond Muslim nations' wildest dreams (contrary to the Quran), and Muslims flock in mass to where? Christian nations. While Christian nations seldomly fight each other, Muslim nations have never not been fighting each other, just as Genesis declared it would be.

Any questions?
Debate Round No. 3
AliHussein

Pro

Okay well done my opponent but you just made false claims:
1- when refuting Jehoichan contradiction in Kings and chronicles, you said I was 5 at beginning of school and 18 at the end while the wo books stated different ages for THE START of his reign kings 24:8 Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign,” while 2Chronicles 36:9 stated Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign." so you can't be both 5 and 18 when started school. Or maybe ?
2-You refuted Solomon's army and number of baths contradictions by claiming they expanded or changed while you ignored that the book of Kings and Book of Chronicles were written AFTER Solomon's reign narrating the events in PAST TENSE
3-Regarding the "Resting place" and "setting place" the Arabic word is "مشارق" (Resting Place/ Resting TIME) while 'مغرب" means *setting place/TIME) and the verses were clearly talking about TIME and not place cause when it comes to "place of rising" or "setting" tbe Quran states in Chapter Al Rahman (He's the God of the SETTING PLACES (مشارق plural) and RISING PLACES (مغارب plural ) so it's clearly stating that the muddy spring isn't the "rising place" of thr sun according to.the Quran; the verse clearly says "He SAW it rising " and "Saw it Setting" so its.narrating tbe view he saw, it never said "It was rising/setting) so you see the sun rising and setting from the sea (for example), does that mean that it is actually rising and setting from it ? Nonsense.
4- Regarding the moon issue ; the verse you quoted is "جعل القمر نورا" actually proves that the moon reflects light from the Sun because the verse calls moon "light" and Sun "lamp" clearly saying that the Sun emits its own light (like a lamp). HOWEVER, the Bible, unlike the Quran, says the MOON is a lamp (emitting its own light)God created two lights the greater light, the Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night" the Bible too says light for the moon you see. Well if you saw the Hebrew text tbe word translated as light is actually "lamp"
5-Ibn Abbas , a commentator, claims that the Earth is flat while verse of Chapter Al Rum says "the Earth he دحاها" made it round according to Lisan Al Arab dictionary so the verse is clear
6- reading the "seven Heavens" it's notable that there are multiple layers of atmosphere which may be counted as seven. Don't forget that the Bible calls them "Heavens" too so if the Quran is wrong in stating the heavans as plural layers, the Bible is wrong too. we'll also notable that tha word translated as heavens is "سماوات" which is also "skies" , thus it may be referring to the Heavenly world.
7- well I refuted all your arguments against the Quran (according to debate title "Not Mohammed" while YOU couldn't refute the miracles above or the contradictions and here are more.
8- Genesis states Earth created kn third day and then Sun and Moon on fourth, while in reality Sun formed first and then the other planets of the Solar System and then the Moon. No way te Earth created before the Sun.
9-
MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. Please author of Gsoples, check together.
10- Which is better widosm or foolishness ? Still the Bible clashed here again.PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
11- Also so sons bear the sins of their fathers. AnotherISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
12- Another scientific error. Hares don't chew cud!LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you
13- Earth has foundations ?

JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
14- The Universe have pillars ? Bible says in Jobs 26:11 it doesn't while the Quran states "He created The Heavens with no pillars ypu see"
15- Levriate marriage issue can't justify stating that Joseph is son of Jacob and Heli. I am Ali son of Hussein and then my mother marries my uncle Osama, well I am still Ali Son of Hussein and not Osama.
16-where was Jesus first sermon ? Another NT clash MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said...
Now refute those and the miracles above Goodluck :)

brontoraptor

Con

Pro:
"Jehoiachin"


The explanation in regards to Jehoiachin’s age in 2 Kings 24:8 and 2 Chronicles 36:9 is that 2 Chronicles records Jehoiachin’s age when he was appointed co-regent with his father, and 2 Kings records Jehoiachin’s age when, after his father’s death, he became king in his own right. Other kings also used co regents.


Pro:
"Sun to rule the day, and the lesser light the Moon, to rule the night" the Bible too says light for the moon you see. Well if you saw the Hebrew text tbe word translated as light is actually "lamp"."


So Muhammed stole yet another concept from the Bible, thus for Islam to try and "disprove" the Bible destroys much of what Muhammed said by default. You cannot logically quote a book that is "false", then turn around and now claim the stories from it are true inyour book. It's a logical fallacy.


*


Pro:
"Genesis states Earth created on third day and then Sun and Moon on fourth, while in reality Sun formed first and then the other planets of the Solar System and then the Moon. No way te Earth created before the Sun."


Why not? The Earth's ancient existance does not need the sun to exist. There are meteors, comets, and planets all over the known universe that exist seperate from any other entity. To exist as a physical mass is not dependent on sunlight or heat. There are many real scientific theories claiming the moon came from the Earth.




*


Pro:
"ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."


Thisis a scientific fact. Tendency towards depression comes with higher IQ's. The more you know, the more dangers you realize are around us.






*


Pro:
"Also so sons bear the sins of their fathers."


I've never met a perfect, blameless man.


*


"Another scientific error. Hares don't chew cud!"


Obviously, rabbits do not share the digestive anatomy of modern ruminants. However, to describe rabbits chewing the cud is not incorrect. Simply stated, a 3500-year-old document of error because it does not adhere to a modern man-made classification system that wasn't applicable prior to its invention..


*


Pro:
"The Universe have pillars ? Bible says in Jobs 26:11 it doesn't while the Quran states "He created The Heavens with no pillars ypu see"


Pro might want to study quantum physics, the space time continuim, and relativity.


*


Pro:
" Levriate marriage issue can't justify stating that Joseph is son of Jacob and Heli."


It does according to the Jews.




*

Pro:
"MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. Please author of Gsoples, check together."


If they had"checked together", they wouldn't be true accounts.


*


The Quran is suspect for multiple reasons.


1)He stole many Bilical stories, names, and concepts, then tried to disprove the very book(The Bible) that he got these concepts from. This all after openly admitting that God at some point was with and did give revelation to the Jews in the past. Scholars come from Atheist, Jewish, Christian, and even Muslim backgrounds all agree that Muhammad borrowed religious material from Judaism and Christianity.
Quran 7: 54 Your gurdian-Lord is Allah who created the heavens and earth in Six Days


Quran 10: 3 Verily your Lord is Allah, who created the heavens and earth in Six Days


Quran 11:7 He it is Who created the heavens and earth in Six Days


Quran-25:29: He Who created the heavens and earth and all that is between, in Six Days.


Obviously stolen from the Bilical Genesis account, so if the Bible is wrong, so is the Quran by default. The Quran can be wrong and the Bible still logically be correct. The Quran depends on the Bible being accurate, otherwise the Quran cannot be correct. If the Bible is a pipedream, Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Moses, Satan, Heaven, Hell, Ishmael, etc are all lies, meaning the Quran is filled with? Not only lies, but lies it stole.






2)Muhammed's claims are a fallacy in his "being tricked by Satan" to write the Satanic verses. This is all after being called demon posessed as a child, and then later claiming a demon had "pressed" him inthe cave. And this all just before becoming suicidal and choosing to hurl himself from a cliff. At best we can assume Muhammed stole Biblical concepts and what he claimed was a fraud. At worst, he literally got his revelation from Satan himself to fulfill the Bible's prophecy of the "beast" and it's Antichrist religion.




*


And the greatest testament of the Bible's authenticity and obvious inspiration is the fact that it predicted everything about Islam, from bowing to a graven image, to beheading and genociding Christians, to setting up a "false god" at the temple mount, to the location of their great city, being the children of Ishmael, the "beast of the Earth, renouncing Jesus as the Son of God, and even their false messiah who stands against the king of kings in the end, and even Iran hating the Saudis.

1 of 2 things must be true logically.

1)Muhammed literally and purposefully was trying to emmulate the Antichrist religion from the Bible step by step.

Or

2)The Bible predicted Islam and every step it would take.

Either way, the Quran was obviously not inspired by God and was either a copycat of other religions or inspired by Satan himself.
Debate Round No. 4
AliHussein

Pro

I don't know whether my opponent was manuplialting my words or he didn't read the argument carefully because:
1-Why not? The Earth's ancient existance does not need the sun to exist. There are meteors, comets, and planets all over the known universe that exist seperate from any other entity. To exist as a physical mass is not dependent on sunlight or heat. There are many real scientific theories claiming the moon came from the Earth. wellr the Sun was CREATED before the Earth that's not an expectation; for your own knowledge, Stars are created first in the solar system and then the planets because the less dense gases which are Hydrogen and Helium condense first forming the star way before the other minerals which create planets.
2-
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." that's not error but this CONTRADICTS another verse in the Bible which is Pro 4:7 WISDOM is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding. Once Bible ADVOCATING wisdom and once making fun of it.
3-
"Also so sons bear the sins of their fathers." I agree but there's ANOTHER VERSE in the Bible stating that SONS DON'T bear the father's sin. DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
4- and pillars issue I agree too but UNFORTUNATLY another VERSE in the BIBLE doesn't ;)

JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.

JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. PLUS the Quran states that there are pillars but are INVISIBLE thanks for proving another Quranoc Miracle
5- Now to the Bible predicting everything about Islam part. First of all all your claims are FALSE when you claim that Mohammed is the "Anti-Christ" just for ONE REASON YOU QUOTED YOURSELF Revelation 8

6He opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And those that dwell upon the earth shallWORSHIP HIM, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb." thus the verse states that the followers of the "Anti-Christ" shall worship HIM. Unfortunately, we DON'T worship Mohammed and never did jer order us to worship Him. In tbe Quran chapter Al Zummur" Say:(O MOHAMMED) :God is the only one I worship" so he isn't God in Islamic faith, thus he's not the Anti-Christ whose followers according to Revelations would worship him. Plus we don't bow to a graven image , we bow to God only but facing the Kaaba as Hos House but without worshipping; that's considered "Shirk" in Islam and unacceptable to bow except for God. Quran Chapter Al Alaq "So bow to your Lord only in respect"
6- More contradictions in the Bible ;) Goodluck How many years of famine ? authors again clashed.

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?

I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
7-How were there day and evenings in Genesis before creation of Sun and moon ? Aren't they a result of Earth rotation during Sun's presence ? and how were Plants and creatures there before the Sun ? Plants need sunlight for photosynthesis and growth. A primary student would LAUGH AT THAT.
8- Who provoked David's anger; God or Satan ?

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel. Unless the Bible states that its God is Satan Himself.

9- Can God be seen ?
NO according to :No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)

YES according to

And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)
10- Does God tempt people ?
YES according to
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)

NO according to
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)

11- How did Judas die ? Bible authors clash again.

And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field." (MAT 27:5)

"Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)

12- Another contradiction; can anyone ascend heaven ?
YES And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2KI 2:11)
NONo man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (JOH 3:13)

13- Did Michal have children ?
NO and Yes

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.

2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathit

14- Now according to all theae verses the Earth is flat(1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 38:4, Isaiah 11:12, Revelation 7:1, Job 38:13, Jeremiah 16:19, Daniel 4:11, Psalm 93:1-3, Psalm 96:10, Psalm 104:5, 1 Chronicles 16:30, Matthew 4:8)

15- Genesis 1:16 calls the Moon a "lamp" according to Hebrew which means emitting its own light. http://biblelexicon.org...
CONCLUSION
A book with all these uncountable contradictions, errors and confusions can never be truly the Word of God and that's why me, Ali Hussein a person who converted to Christianity one day did revert back to Islam and the Quran. Peace be up in you all.

brontoraptor

Con

It's pretty simple logic really. If the Bible is wrong, the Quran is wrong by default seeing it quotes and references it many times. My opponent does not rebuttle this. Why? There is no rebuttle.


*


Muhammed was illiterate, but somehow magically...he wrote the Quran, and then...rode a magic unicorn with a human face, hopping from mosque to mosque. No, this guy's story isn't a full blown lie... Very believable...


If you believe an illiterate guy wrote books and rode magic unicorns, saw God face to face, I don't know what to tell you.


*


We have the moral inferiority problem-


If a god exists he would be the highest conceivable being, meaning he would be good, sinless, merciful, kind, forgiving, truthful, etc...


Allah is none of those things.


Comparative study-


Muhammad...


Jesus vs Muhammed


Good vs Evil


Muhammed-


Said Allah does not love

those who reject Islam.


(Quran 30:45, 3:32, 22:38)


Jesus-


Said God loves everyone.
(John 3:16)


Muhammed-
"I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah"
(Muslim 1:33)


Jesus-


"He who lives by the sword
will die by the sword."
(Matthew 26:52)


Muhammed-


Stoned women for adultery.
(Muslim 4206)


Jesus-
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."
(John 8:7)


Muhammed-
Permitted stealing from unbelievers.
(Bukhari 44:668, Ibn Ishaq 764)


Jesus-
"Thou shalt not steal."
(Matthew 19:18)


Muhammed-
Permitted lying.
(Sahih Muslim 6303, Bukhari 49:857)


Jesus-
"Thou shalt not bear false witness."
(Matthew 19:18)


Muhammed-
Owned and traded slaves.
(Sahih Muslim 3901)


Jesus-
Neither owned nor traded slaves.


Muhammed-
Beheaded 800 Jewish men and boys.
(Abu Dawud 4390)


Jesus-
Beheaded no one.


Muhammed-
Murdered those who insulted him.
(Bukhari 56:369, 4:241)


Jesus-
Preached forgiveness.
(Matthew 18:21-22, 5:38)


Muhammed-
"If then anyone transgresses
the prohibition against you,
Transgress ye likewise against him"
(Quran 2:194)


Jesus-
"If someone strikes you on the right
cheek, turn to him the other also."
(Matthew 5:39)


Muhamned-
Jihad in the way of Allah elevates one's position in Paradise by a hundred fold.
(Muslim 4645)


Jesus-
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called Sons of God"
(Matthew 5:9)


Muhammed-
Married 13 wives and kept sex slaves.
(Bukhari 5:268, Quran 33:50)


Jesus-
Was celibate.


Muhammed-
Slept with a 9-year-old child.
(Sahih Muslim 3309, Bukhari 58:236)


Jesus-
Did not have sex with children.


Muhammed-
Ordered the murder of women.
(Ibn Ishaq 819, 995)


Jesus-
Never harmed a woman.


Muhammed-
"O you who believe! Fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
(Quran 9:123)


Jesus-
"Blessed are the meek, for
they shall inherit the earth."
(Matthew 5:5)


Muhammed-
Ordered 65 military campaigns
and raids in his last 10 years.
(Ibn Ishaq )


Jesus-
Ordered no military campaigns, nor offered any approval of war or violence.


Muhammed-
Killed captives taken in battle.
(Ibn Ishaq 451)


Jesus-
Never took captives.
Never killed anyone.


Muhammed-
Encouraged his men to rape enslaved women.
(Abu Dawood 2150, Quran 4:24)


Jesus-
Never encouraged rape.
Never enslaved women.


Muhammed-
Demanded captured slaves and
a fifth of all other loot taken in war.
(Quran 8:41)


Jesus-
"The Son of Man came not
to be served, but to serve."
(Matthew 20:28)


Muhammed-
Was never tortured, but tortured others.
(Muslim 4131, Ibn Ishaq 436, 595, 734, 764)


Jesus-
Suffered torture, but never tortured anyone.


Muhammed-
"And fight them until there is no more persecution and religion is only for Allah"
(Quran 8:39)


Jesus-
"Love your enemies and pray
for those who persecute you"
(Matthew 5:44)


Muhammed-
Blessed the brutal murder of a half-blind man
(al-Tabari 1440)


Jesus-
Healed a blind man
(Mark 8:28)


Muhammed-
Ordered a slave to build the very pulpit
from which he preached Islam.
(Bukhari 47:743)


Jesus-
Washed his disciples feet.
(John 13:5)


Muhammed-
What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause"
(Muslim 1:149)


Jesus-
What are the Greatest Commandments?
"Love God and love thy neighbor as thyself."
(Matthew 22:34-40)


Muhammed-
Demanded the protection of armed bodyguards, even in a house of worship
(Quran 4:102)


Jesus-
Chastised anyone attempting
to defend him with force.
(John 18:10-12)


Muhammed-
Died fat and wealthy from what was taken from others in war or
demanded from others in tribute. Demanded nothing for himself.


Jesus-

Died without possessions.


Muhammed-
Advocated crucifying others.
(Quran 5:33, Muslim 16:4131)


Jesus-
Was crucified himself.


Muhammed-
According to his followers:
Had others give their lives for him.
(Sahih Muslim 4413)


Jesus-
According to his followers:
Gave his life for others.
(John 18:11 and elsewhere)


If Allah is God(which he's not. He's Satan), he was shown up morally by the infallable leader of a whole nother religion. How can this be? Is God confused on morality and ethics? Does it confound him? If Islam is correct, God is actually getting his butt whipped by the rest of humanity who gets along fine with each other and took in Muslim asylum seekers in mass. Apparently God pandered to the non-Muslim world to help his desperate people because they killed each other and couldn't do it without the Christian and secular world's help. Who the heck could believe that? I believe by simple inductive reasoning alone either:


1)There is no god.


Or


2)If there is a god, He adheres to my first argument in this debate AND is actually good, loving, and has a good plan, otherwise He is inferior to His own creation which doesn't even make any sense.
Debate Round No. 5
46 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by David_Debates 3 months ago
David_Debates
*con.

Sorry about that.
Posted by David_Debates 3 months ago
David_Debates
Clear win by Pro.
Posted by brontoraptor 3 months ago
brontoraptor
Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3310:
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house when I was nine years old.

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'

Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with 'Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
Posted by brontoraptor 3 months ago
brontoraptor
@thedynasty

If it's the same god why couldn't this god preserve his word the first 2 times.

And as if Muslims REALLY think it's "the same god".

Muslims reject all Jewish mesdianic prophechies and all claims of Jesus as the "Son of God". If the original was God, he would have never needed Muhammed. What the hell for? He couldn't preserve the original "word of God"? Why the hell not?
Posted by Stupidape 3 months ago
Stupidape
I watched the video. Nothing important that I could find. Basically there were lots and lots of irrelevant discrepancies in the Bible. Most of them having to with word ordering. Which reinforces that the Bible was well preserved.

For example
see Jane run
See run Jane.
Posted by AliHussein 3 months ago
AliHussein
Haha :)) LOL
Posted by Stupidape 3 months ago
Stupidape
Interesting, one side claims A and the other side claims A is untrue. I don't have the time and energy to spare at the moment to figure out which side is correct.
Posted by thedynasty139 3 months ago
thedynasty139
There's nothing in the Hadith that indicates at what age the Prophet had intercourse with Aisha, and Muhammad never had concubines or sex slaves.
Posted by thedynasty139 3 months ago
thedynasty139
@brontoraptor, Has it ever occurred to you that Islam is an Abrahamic religion? And that the same God who sent all those prophets you mentioned also sent the prophet of Islam? Why would he change the history (that which was right) of his prophets if it was true?
Posted by AliHussein 3 months ago
AliHussein
I as Quranist don't believe in those things ,Stupidape, since they're not told in the Qur'an. They were found In Hadiths which are oral transmissions stared appearing 2 centuries after Mohammed's death; thus for our set, they're inauthentic sources of Islamic Religion just as the Talmud cosidered to be In Christianity.
No votes have been placed for this debate.