The Instigator
jazzyfizzle
Pro (for)
Losing
60 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
72 Points

REGLION SHOULD BE BROUGHT BACK TO THE SCHOOLS!!!!!

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/9/2008 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 3,473 times Debate No: 3572
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (41)

 

jazzyfizzle

Pro

I BELVE THAT IF CHRISTIANITY WAS BOUGHT BACK TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD BE BETTER OFF.EVEN THOUGH MANY THINGS HAVE HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT RELIGON WAS IN SCHOOL,I THINK THAT IN TODAYS SOCIETY THAT IS IS A NEED.....I THINK THAT IF REGLION WAS BOUGHT IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THEN ,MANY OF THE PROMBLEMS WOULD NOT BE THEIR.I UNDERSTAND THE MANY REGLION BELIEFS,BUT IF THATS THE CASE THEN THE SCHOOLS SHOULD BE DIVIDED BY REGLIONS THEN...I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER OFF.
Danielle

Con

First I would like to thank jazzyfizzle for the challenge -- I look forward to this debate! Second I would like to confirm that the schools we are debating about are in fact public schools funded by the state. With that said, I will get right down to the nitty gritty and quote my opponent's Round 1 argument in pieces to ensure that I respond to each and every point. Go!

"I BELVE THAT IF CHRISTIANITY WAS BOUGHT BACK TO THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THEN IT WOULD BE BETTER OFF."

Why? Please prove this to be true or at least elaborate.

"EVEN THOUGH MANY THINGS HAVE HAPPEN BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT RELIGON WAS IN SCHOOL,I THINK THAT IN TODAYS SOCIETY THAT IS IS A NEED"

Again, please provide your logic and reasoning to support this claim. How is "today's society" any more in need than a decade or two ago? If anything, I would argue that there should be an overview of every major religion taught in school to eliminate ignorance; favoring one over another would only lead to more problems, in my opinion. However I will wait for my opponent's rebuttal before elaborating. Also, my opponent has brought up a good point. Whenever (group) prayer or religion has been approved or accepted in public schools, there has been conflict regarding laws, the Constitution, and individual rights. Luckily states have already outlined the parameters of which religion in public school is acceptable. I believe these guidelines do not infringe upon individual rights to embrace their religion while still upholding the very important concept of Separation of Church and State.

"I THINK THAT IF REGLION WAS BOUGHT IN THE SCHOOL SYSTEM THEN ,MANY OF THE PROMBLEMS WOULD NOT BE THEIR."

The most common problems facing the public school system today include the lack of (good) teachers; overcrowding; not enough money in the budget; inconsistencies regarding subjective grading experiences; equity and equality (education in poor cities vs. education in more well-off cities); concern about standards/quality of education (in comparison to other nations especially); pupil's lack of interest/attendance; etc. I would ask my opponent to discuss in detail how the inclusion of religion or religious education in school would solve or help any of these big issues.

If the lack of discipline and violence are the sole issues of which my opponent would argue that religion would "cure" in our public schools, I have a few points for him to consider. First, these are not the biggest problems facing our school system today. As you can see, I have provided a list of other issues that are more widespread. In actuality, the perception of violence and gangs running rampant in our school system is greatly exaggerated by the media. To support my claim:

"New York, like other large cities, has recorded declines in all categories of school crimes, and Ed Muir, chairman of the United Federation of Teachers' School Safety Committee, said improvements were noticeable even at the 60 schools that the union considers chronically unsafe."

"A number of educators said schools were not the centers for drug use, violence and disruptive behavior that much of the public believes them to be. 'The exceptions are really awful, but schools are not nearly as ill-disciplined as the public thinks,' said Theodore R. Sizer, a Brown University professor who published a major study of high school issues last year."

"34 percent of the general public surveyed said discipline was a very serious problem in schools but only 16 percent of the teachers agreed."

"Some educators said the public concern, particularly about weapons in schools, was shaped overduly by a few highly publicized acts. But Gerald N. Tirozzi, Connecticut's Education Commissioner..."

Source: The New York Times
http://query.nytimes.com...

"I UNDERSTAND THE MANY REGLION BELIEFS,BUT IF THATS THE CASE THEN THE SCHOOLS SHOULD BE DIVIDED BY REGLIONS THEN...I THINK THAT IT WOULD BE BETTER OFF."

Again my opponent brings up a very good point. America is a melting pot, with people believing in and practicing a wide array of religious beliefs, many of which are not Christian. What about the Muslims and Jews, for example, that attend public school? They may be in the minority, however, take an electoral college class sometime - protecting the rights of minorities in this country are of a great deal of importance.

Furthermore, many religious denominations fall under the category of "Chrstian." For example, there are Protestants, Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Anglicans, Episcopalians, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Greek Orthodox (F it - many types of orthodox!), Presbyterians, Anabaptists, Born Again Christians, Congressionalists, Methodists, Pentecostolists, Bretheran, Apostolics, Restorationists, Latter Day Saints, etc etc etc. In fact, even the largest Christian group (Protestants) are extremely divided. There are between 30,000 and 50,000 Protestant Christian denominations in the world. So, even if we implemented Christianity in public schools, how would we go about incorporating the "right" beliefs of each denomination?

I suppose my opponent will try to argue that we can choose only the "basic" teachings of Christianity in order to succeed at improving the public school system today. However does the belief that Jesus is God and died for our sins really affect the way students behave? Or does responsibility and morality play more of a role? I argue that people/students can be moral beings and uphold values common to all of humanity without the implementation of religion in our public schools. Nachum Mohl wrote, "It is not the 'religiosity' of a person that makes any real difference at all, and we all really know it. Often religion can be just a fa´┐Żade to give a false aura of righteousness to others, and even more devastating, to the person himself." Another example to support my claim is to consider the recent scandal in which an abundance of Catholic Priests were charged with molesting young boys... and these were men of the Cloth! Thus it is wrong to assume that one's knowledge and appreciation of religion would automatically impact his or her actions. There are countless other instances to support this, but I digress.

I would like to move on by pointing out that there are already institutions that promote religious education, such as private schools that parents can opt to send their children to in order to receive a religious education. If they deem these schools too expensive, there are always other options including after school programs like CCD or Sunday School that teach students the values upheld by their particular religion. If your argument is that knowing about Christ and his lifestyle/teachings will prevent or deter children from misbehaving or committing crimes on school grounds, then why not just have students apply these lessons learned inside of school as well? If they don't, then obviously they are not understanding the message and therefore it would be a waste to include religion in the school curriculum.

Furthermore, the inclusion of religion would not only be most likely ineffective, but also detrimental as well. For one thing religion often opposes science, which would affect the way kids learn about the realities of the world and may give students in other countries the upper hand in yet another aspect of education. Additionally, teaching religion in school promotes discrimination, hate crimes, intolerance, ignorance (to other beliefs) and diminishes multicultural awareness. This would be true of every public institution that taught one religion/belief over others. Plus, at one time religion was in fact taught in our school system; obviously something wasn't working for this practice to be removed.

Thus I firmly oppose the resolution that religion should be brought back to the schools.
Debate Round No. 1
jazzyfizzle

Pro

i feel that even if you have religion in school that should not be a big deal...if you are serious in your faith then it should not affect it..i think that with the promotion of religion in school that you don't have to promote or emphasizing any one in particular. I have always felt that this is the proper role of religion in schools. my opponent say 'that favoring one over another would only lead to more problems,'..like i said you don't have to promote just one religion.

I feel that if you are confident in your religion then learning about another religion would not hurt...
Danielle

Con

In Round 1 my opponent suggested that Christianity be taught in school; those of a different faith would attend a separate school. In Round 2 Pro now claimed that school would promote all religions and not just one over another. These statement are completely contradictory. I'm confused. And didn't I already say in a previous round that school already does/should teach a very brief overview about the major world religions (in a secular way)?

Anyway even if schools did somehow teach "all" religions... which would be impossible given the number of denominations and their conflicting beliefs... that still does not address any of my points from Round 1, including the fact that there are laws that already exist to allow students to pray individually during school; the importance of the Separation of Church and State; the lack of (good) teachers; overcrowding; not enough money in the budget; inconsistencies regarding subjective grading experiences; equity and equality (education in poor cities vs. education in more well-off cities); concern about standards/quality of education (in comparison to other nations especially); pupil's lack of interest/attendance; the exaggerated occurence of violence in school; the fact that there are already private schools and free religious education; and the problems that would occur should religion in school be taught and funded by the state.

Finally, Pro has yet to provide sufficient reasoning behind the resolution.
Debate Round No. 2
jazzyfizzle

Pro

maybe you some how miss interrupted what i was trying to say...i just saying that maybe if their was some type of religion atmosphere in school's then it would be better off........
so you have yet to defend your role as the con...?????????/
Danielle

Con

My opponent mistakingly assumes that I must prove why religion should not be brought back to (public) schools. In actuality, Pro must prove why religion should be brought back to the schools -- I only have to dismantle his arguments if I want to win. In this debate, my opponent has failed to make a good case for the resolution. On the contrary, I have more than fulfilled my role as Con by voiding all of my opponent's "arguments" and providing more insight than necessary to support why religion should NOT be brought back to school. Pro failed to refute my arguments as well. Therefore I urge a CON vote -- thanks for the debate.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by brokenboy 5 years ago
brokenboy
the only problem is that if you bring back religon and try to be equal you would have to make schools with many different religons inside creating bigger seperation between people of a particular faith
Posted by PoeJoe 8 years ago
PoeJoe
That's odd. The "caps filter" didn't catch anything.
Posted by Danielle 8 years ago
Danielle
Muhafidh said:

"I have simply clarified that TheLwerd (Con) in this debate was wrong to declare that the burden of proof was really on Jazzyfizzle (Pro) to prove affirmatively that a given freedom exists"

In fact he is the one who is wrong -- The question over whether or not freedom truly exists is huge debate in the philosophy world, and if 'freedom' is Pro's value criterion, then he would absolutely have to defend that if I challenge it in a debate. However, perhaps most interesting of all is that nowhere in this debate did I declare that Pro must prove that a given freedom exists. I maybe did demand that Pro prove that imposing on others "freedoms" represents "freedom" in itself (which he didn't), but I dunno. It's been awhile. Either way, regardless of who you personally agree with, it's easy to see based on Pro's arguments and mine that I have out-debated my opponent. I don't really care if the votes reflect that or not.
Posted by Muhafidh 8 years ago
Muhafidh
Hi, Sarsin - Sure, go ahead and start your own Satanic preschool if you like. Be free! Cheers - Muhafidh.
Posted by sarsin 8 years ago
sarsin
By that exact statement, I should be allowed to have a satanic preschool. The default position in any free society is freedom, not repression.
Posted by Muhafidh 8 years ago
Muhafidh
Hi, Sarsin - Satanism no, but Scientology is okay. Just kidding (but try not to attack Scientology in the same breath as Satanism; Scientology espouses worship of God). What you're saying is that, since you cannot accept certain religions (as neither can I), the default position of a free society should be to prohibit all of them from the public square. In fact, this is backwards. The default position in any free society is freedom, not repression. Therefore, on the question of the permissibility of religious practices of any kind in public schools, the burden of persuasion is on those who would keep them out, not on those who would accommodate them. In saying this, I have said nothing about federal funding of religions. I have simply clarified that TheLwerd (Con) in this debate was wrong to declare that the burden of proof was really on Jazzyfizzle (Pro) to prove affirmatively that a given freedom exists.
Posted by sarsin 8 years ago
sarsin
So I should have the freedom to get federal funding for my satanic preschool? Or a Scientology elementary school? Heck, I could start my own religion that supports the sacrificing of young children. Are you prepared to define what is and isn't a religion?
Posted by Muhafidh 8 years ago
Muhafidh
Still wondering what a REGLION is, but in the meantime, theLwerd (Con) made an assertion that it is not necessary to prove why religion (or even REGLION) should *not* be in school, but that jazzyfizzle (Pro) must prove affirmatively. The logic is backwards. In a country that espouses freedom above all else, it is erroneous to assert that anything that we are ordinarily free to do in a gathering of like-minded people is by default not permissible in a school. Were we to espouse that view, we would be a totalitarian state, in which every practice is prohibited by default and thus permitted only with the affirmation of the state.
Posted by marcusjlang 8 years ago
marcusjlang
This is a joke, how can the affirmation be winning, not only because the Constitution does not allow what the pro wants... but the argument doesn't make any sense.
Posted by Muhafidh 8 years ago
Muhafidh
Yes! Bring back REGLION! We want REGLION! What the heck is REGLION, anyway? It sounds like a new kind of mascara or something.
41 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by BLAHthedebator 1 year ago
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