The Instigator
funnybrad333
Pro (for)
Losing
29 Points
The Contender
Mangani
Con (against)
Winning
35 Points

RESOLVED: Intelligence should determine grades more so than Effort in School

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/17/2008 Category: Education
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,291 times Debate No: 5433
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (4)
Votes (11)

 

funnybrad333

Pro

Definitions:
Intelligence - One's intellect and ability to reason efficiently
Determine - Impact; alter
Grades - The score presented by an official that represents how much of the designated material one understands and retains
Effort - the amount of work put forth towards a goal
School - Any place of education for 14 year olds and above
Arguement:
School was designed to increase the mental capacity of its student body. Grades should reflect this, by assessing how much information one understands and has retained.
As it stands, homework, classwork and projects account for more of one's grade than tests do. Tests accurately assess how much one has learned from class, while classwork, homework, and projects only assess how determined one is to succeed, which does not align as close as tests do to the purpose of school.

Conclusion:
Intelligence should determine grades more so than effort in school, which as it stands, is untrue. School is based on Intelligence, yet effort is impacting grades more so than intelligence.
Mangani

Con

Though I agree with my opponent on a personal level, ie. it would have been better for me personally, I don't agree with his position when applied to students in general.

"School was designed to increase the mental capacity of its student body."

-This statement, though true, is not complete. This is one of the reasons modern public schooling was developed the way it was, but it is also designed to enhance one's social skills. School is also designed to prepare students for life after school- the real world.

"As it stands, homework, class work and projects account for more of one's grade than tests do."

-If my previous statement is to be considered true, then consider this- I get paid to work, not to know. The reason grades account for 30-50% of your grades (depending on where you go to school), and WORK accounts for the remainder (sometimes the majority of the grade) is because other socially necessary attributes are being measured, calibrated, and tested on a daily basis (I know education is not perfect, but we are arguing the purpose). I can almost guarantee that a high school student who does not complete homework, class work, and projects will be a slacker in the real world. Knowing is not an excuse for not completing a task, and it is the teacher's job to ensure that you can pass the test in the first place. Homework, class work, and projects not only build social skills, but they tell the teacher what the class needs to learn. They also help you exercise your knowledge (yes, the brain is a muscle that should be exercised). This also maintains some uniformity amongst schools, and provides a simple way to enhance methods of teaching, allow for uniformity in teaching based on grade level, etc.

"School is based on Intelligence, yet effort is impacting grades more so than intelligence."

-Effort is a good way to measure actual intelligence. Intelligence is not simple knowledge and/or recollection, but cognizance and understanding. You can have all the intelligence in the world and know nothing. You can know all the data in the world and lack intelligence. School teaches you to acquire knowledge, explore your intelligence, and apply both through effort. School prepares you for the real world, and intelligence will not carry you through every job interview, promotional review, etc. You must have a habit of work in order to work effectively, and your proposition would probably give rise to a breed of lazy memorizers who know how to cram for a test. Your proposition would lessen the quality of education, and all the intelligence would soon be lacking from school in it's entirety.

Another thing that would be lacking from schools, and students is practice. In your definition of school you state "Any place of education for 14 year olds and above". Your definition not only applies to High School, but to institutes of Higher Learning. How would a doctor perform at his first surgery if he never practiced? How would he respond if all he did was memorize jargon and test answers, but never put in any effort to complete homework, class work, and projects? Would you want that doctor operating on you? There are many other fields that would be affected even if we limited this discussion to High School. Most people in the military join right out of High School. The greatest culture clash would be for someone who traditionally refused to do homework, class work, and projects to now be thrown into a situation in which EVERYTHING is homework, class work, and treated as a project! These people would not survive a day in bootcamp, let alone in a real world military situation. Intelligence can get you out of a lot of situations, but effort is something you condition yourself to put in. Intelligence without effort is empty...
Debate Round No. 1
funnybrad333

Pro

I would not like to fritter away at long, redundant arguements.

You say that school's purpose is to prepare one for the real world, all events thereafter school.
Increasing one's ability to reason efficiently and increasing one's worldly and basic knowledge would help much more in the "real world".

Social skills would be increased further in a intelligence centered school curriculum because more time would be liberated for social interaction, time previously used for mindless repetitive work that requires effort, much like a mule carrying a bucket of water.

I do stand by the fact that school should be defined as any facility that educates people from 14 and up. People below the age of 14 are usually unprepared for mental engagement. You are right in saying that a Doctor would need to practice his profession, but maybe my point wasn't fully clear. I believe that people should learn in order to pass a test. No assigned homework, classwork, or projects, just lectures and a broad list of material that will be covered on the test. Students would then, based on their own needs, study and learn, and ask questions to the teacher.

You say that military, among other fields of work, require more effort and determination. I do agree, and this school philosophy which favors logic and intelligence still adheres to all. Effort would be needed if intelligence was lacked by a student. This student would learn to cope with his deficiency, and find athletic or effort-related means to achieve success in a school environment.

In the end, Intelligence is still favored over effort in a school environment, with effort taking the backseat to intelligence that intelligence and logic is occupying in today's world.
Mangani

Con

You say that increasing one's ability to reason efficiently and increasing one's worldly and basic knowledge would help much more in the real world, but you don't explain how a student lacking such skills would be a more competetive worker than one already posessing those skills. Though there are jobs that tolerate learning on the job, McDonald's can't hire EVERYBODY, and so the people who are left over must actually put in effort in order to stand out from other applicants. For students being hired right out of college, it is homework, class work, and projects which are often cited in resumes as experience. I can guarantee that though tests scores would be considered, one's effort is much more appreciated by employer's than their intelligence- especially in repetetive jobs, which comprise of the bulk of the American workforce. Social skills, determination, and good work ethic are important right out of school, and attempting to acquire these skills after years of simply "thinking" one is smart is a disservice to intelligence, and not intelligent at all.

You say social skills would increase further in intelligence centered school curriculums because more time would be liberated for social interaction, but you don't provide any alternatives for the time spent in school. What will be done with the 6-8 hours normally dedicated to classwork and projects? How will learning be assessed in between testing? You don't provide any alternatives to the reality other than an empty proposition which sounds more like a complaint.

You propose that students sit through lectures, study (which is a contradiction, as homework and classwork is meant to facilitate and encourage study), learn, and ask questions to the teacher. How will students know if they learned something incorrectly? In your proposition, if determining one's performance is left up to testing, many students would fail the tests. There would be no regular maintenance on learning, and you would be left to assume you know something even if you don't (especially with students who assume they are intelligent). Again, you don't provide a viable alternative. You say students should study and learn, but you don't explain from your perspective how this studying and learning would occur. A student who assumes he is intelligent but lacks effort would not take the initiative to study.

You claim that effort is required when knowledge is lacking, but your statement is not based on fact. First of all intelligence and knowledge are not the same thing. One can posess a wealth of intelligence, and effort may be the result of this intelligence because they see the value in being productive. You can posess a wealth of knowledge, and not have the intelligence to apply it resulting in a complete lack of effort on any task. We can suppose all we want, but the world demands effort and productivity, and the current system of schooling attempts to incorporate all these different aspects of society into preparing students for the workforce.

In your definition of intelligence you claim it is one's intellect and ability to reason EFFICIENTLY. How would you measure this simply with tests? How will you determine in a test wether one posesses the capacities to reason, to plan, to solve problems, to think abstractly, to comprehend ideas, to use language, and to learn? Sure you can measure the entire school year, or a specific period, but unless you are testing every day your process would not be efficient. Homework, class work, and projects are currently the real time measurement of these capacities. What you propose is that we ignore the importance of effort, or at least diminish it, and concentrate on preparing students for testing- which is what you will be doing if test scores become a higher indicator of progress. You would also run into many more problems than already plague society with standardized testing.
Debate Round No. 2
funnybrad333

Pro

funnybrad333 forfeited this round.
Mangani

Con

The basic objective of homework is what school is designed for in the first place: to increase your knowledge and IMPROVE your intelligence. Homework, classwork, and projects improve your sense of responsibility, and provide a real time report of your progress in class. Homework can reveal weak areas in individuals, and even in the class in general. Homework, classwork, and projects improve cooperation between students and in some cases builds teamwork, they can reveal weak areas in individuals or in the class as a whole, and can alert teachers to who learns how and may teach them to teach more intelligent students more efficiently.

My opponent has forfeited round 3, but I just wanted to reiterate my point. Regardless of whether or not you actually like to DO homework- which I never really did in school- you should understand that it is a better method of teaching than limiting grades to test scores or giving more importance to test scores rather than to habitual progress, completion of work, and demonstration of understanding and progressive learning. I rest my case.
Debate Round No. 3
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by JBlake 8 years ago
JBlake
Conduct: Con
- Con was moderately courteous, and Pro forfeited R3.

Spelling/grammar: Tie
- No major mistakes for either side. No major discrepancy in grammar.

Convincing arguments: Con
- Pro did not develop his argument very well, and he does not make it completely clear what he is arguing (which seems to be that tests are a more accurate measurement of intellect than assignments and homework). Con did a good job of showing how both are important to the development of intelligent, pointing out that someone can have intelligence and not knowledge, and knowledge without intelligence.

Source: Tie
- Neither side presented any sources, though this is a topic with plenty of citeable sources for both sides.
Posted by funnybrad333 8 years ago
funnybrad333
Wow. Sorry I procrastinated. I shouldn't of waited until after my debate tournament to submit my argument.

It would be greatly, and I sincerely mean that, if you would forfeit your final round. That way the debate would be perfectly fair voting-wise, whereas it would essentially be a 2 round debate.
Posted by Puck 8 years ago
Puck
lol This is amusing.
Posted by MrPig 8 years ago
MrPig
Outstanding debate topic.

Full support for Pro. I have held the equivalent belief for some time now.

Good luck to both sides. I will be watching this one.
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Vote Placed by m93samman 6 years ago
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