The Instigator
harrytruman
Con (against)
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The Contender
talmid
Pro (for)
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Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi shlit'

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/22/2016 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 343 times Debate No: 85381
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (4)
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harrytruman

Con

Now I have to challenge you to yet another debate to settle the first one, here is the debate I am refering to:
http://www.debate.org...
Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi shlit' has screwed up doctrines:
Doctrine #1; Violating the Sabbath is worse than murder:
Rabbi Mizrachi establishes this nonsense here:
https://www.youtube.com...
So, in this video, he says;
"The Talmud mentions the Sabbath 14 times, more than anything else, worse than murder"
Well for one there is no "14 times" that the Talmud mentions the Sabbath, there is 4, and there is a very clear difference between the number 4, and the number 14.
Moving on, let"s assume, to establish the second way this doctrine is wrong, that there is 14 verses about the Sabbath, and not 4, even so, there is far more than 14 verses about murder, for the simplicity of this, I will only cite 15, which still establishes that there is more than 14 verses about murder, they are as follows:
Genesis 4:10-12 (1)
Genesis 9:5-6 (2)
Exodus 20:13 (3)
Exodus 21:12-14 (4)
Leviticus 24:17 (5)
Numbers 35:16-1 (6)
Deuteronomy 4:41-44 (7)
Deuteronomy 5:17 (8)
Deuteronomy 17:6 (9)
Deuteronomy 19:5 (10)
Deuteronomy 19:11-12 (11)
Proverbs 1:11 (12)
Proverbs 1:16 (13)
Proverbs 6:17 (14)
Proverbs 28:17 (15)
Doctrine #2; Jesus is in hell boiling in Feces:
This is one of the worst and most ridiculous of his doctrines. For one, there is none of this concept of hell in the Talmud, you won"t find it in the Talmud, but you will find it in the Unholy Qur"an. Not only this, but Jesus did no sin worthy of Hell, in fact he didn"t do any sins whatsoever, let alone ones worthy of hell.
Doctrine #3; only 1 million Jews died in the holocaust:
I did not know you could be both a Jew and a Nazi, but this guy seams to defy all logic. Let"s examine this, he thinks that because "80% of Jews interbred with Gentiles, then 80% of Jews who died in the holocaust were not really Jews because you have to be 100% Jewish to be a Jew", Let"s examine this, God gave Abraham the covenant, not Sarai, hence Abraham was a Jew, Sarai was not, but they do not deny that Isaac was a Jew, then Isaac married a Gentile, but no one denies that Jacob was a Jew, and he married a Gentile, and so did his descendants up until there was enough descendants of Abraham for them to marry other Jews without inbreeding, how many generations do you think that was?
Another one of his arguments here is that Ashkenazi Jews are not real Jews, first off, this is ridiculous, and the Ashkenazi Jews can trace back their lineage to the Israelites, so they are in fact, Jews.
Doctrine #4; unless your mother was a Jew, you are not a Jew:
This one is also ridiculous, God gave Abraham the covenant, not Sarai, so Isaac inherited his Jew-ness from Abraham, otherwise, he was not a Jew, and hence, no one is a Jew, because Abraham was not a woman, Isaac could not be a Jew because his mother was not a Jew, his father was, so Isaac being the son of Abraham would not make him a Jew.
talmid

Pro

This is a fruitless debate, for much of what you said is based entirely upon misunderstanding and nothing else.

- First of all, he never said that the Talmud mentions it 14 times. He said that the Torah mentions it 12 times, not 14, and not the Talmud, but the Torah. Two misunderstandings at once.

- The Talmud mentions Shabbat MUCH MUCH MUCH more than 4 times, perhaps even hundreds. This is a colossal misunderstanding. I hope that you are confusing the word "Talmud" with "Torah".

- In the BIBLE, murder is mentioned plenty of times. But in the TORAH, Sabbath desecration is mentioned more than murder is - 12 times to be exact. The definition of Torah is 5 books of Moses.

- Rabbi Mizrachi never mentioned Jesus burning in the pot of feces to the best of my knowledge. And if he did, we already resolved this issue in our previous debate. Talmudic Jesus and Christian Jesus are two different Jesuses, living over 100 years apart from each other.

- Rabbi Mizrachi made a mistake when he said that only 1m Jews died in the Holocaust, but he apologized for this error already, and his apology was even accepted by a Holocaust survivor.

- I love it when Christians pretend to be masters of halacha and Scripture. First of all, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah & Rachel were all relatives. If I remember correctly, they were all cousins also, so even according to your false premises, you'd be wrong. But if we were to ignore the above, I would remind you that Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac was not a Jew, and Jacob was not a Jew. The first halachic Jew was Reuben, who was the first son of Jacob, who is called Israel. Thus, he could be called "a son of Israel" (e.x a Jew). However, there are even disputes as to whether Reuben was a Jew, or at least if he possessed the halachic status of a Jew. While this is controversal, everyone agrees that after Sinai, everyone was officially Jewish and bound by the laws of the Torah. Before that, there are those who say that they were only bound by the Noahide Laws, and others who say that they were bound by the Noahide Laws + Circumcision and a few other commandments which are essential in Judaism.

- I'd also like to point out for the sake of the funs and giggles that you got the word "shlit'a" spelled wrong - omitting the A. Furthermore, by calling Rabbi Mizrachi "shlita", that means that you're wishing him long life. Look up the word shlita, hahaha.

To conclude: This debate is completely fruitless, as literally the entire thing is based upon misunderstanding and ignorance. It would be foolish of us to continue for that reason. Also, please stop pretending to be a master of halacha as was Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal and others. You do not know the first thing about Jewish Law, and needless to say the complicated matters, such as the ones I mentioned above.


Debate Round No. 1
harrytruman

Con

"This is a fruitless debate, for much of what you said is based entirely upon misunderstanding and nothing else."

OK amigo, bring on the pointlessness! Oh YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"First of all, he never said that the Talmud mentions it 14 times. He said that the Torah mentions it 12 times, not 14, and not the Talmud, but the Torah. Two misunderstandings at once."

Really, because I remember specifically that he said 14, unless he has a strange accent, or the word for 12 in Hebrew-ish sounds like the word 14 in English-form, but what this really boils down to is the video, where he says

- The Talmud mentions Shabbat MUCH MUCH MUCH more than 4 times, perhaps even hundreds. This is a colossal misunderstanding. I hope that you are confusing the word "Talmud" with "Torah".

The Torah is Talmud amigo, and I am yet to see any more than, ph, ph, ph, 4 times, ha!!!

"In the BIBLE, murder is mentioned plenty of times. But in the TORAH, Sabbath desecration is mentioned more than murder is - 12 times to be exact. The definition of Torah is 5 books of Moses."

Point being, murder is worse than violating the Sabbath, because I was referring to the Bible as a whole, the Talmud, the Nevi'im, and the Ketuvim, all is one big fat bible called, er, the bible!

"Rabbi Mizrachi never mentioned Jesus burning in the pot of feces to the best of my knowledge. And if he did, we already resolved this issue in our previous debate. Talmudic Jesus and Christian Jesus are two different Jesuses, living over 100 years apart from each other."

This was about ANYONE boiling in a pot of feces, this is NOT in the Bible! It's in the Unholy Qur'an, but not anywhere in the bible, not even in the New Testament.

"Rabbi Mizrachi made a mistake when he said that only 1m Jews died in the Holocaust, but he apologized for this error already, and his apology was even accepted by a Holocaust survivor."

Oh so he did did he now? I suppose you have EVIDENCES?????????!!!!!!!!????????

"I love it when Christians pretend to be masters of halacha and Scripture. First of all, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebecca, Jacob and Leah & Rachel were all relatives. If I remember correctly, they were all cousins also, so even according to your false premises, you'd be wrong. But if we were to ignore the above, I would remind you that Abraham was not a Jew. Isaac was not a Jew, and Jacob was not a Jew. The first halachic Jew was Reuben, who was the first son of Jacob, who is called Israel. Thus, he could be called "a son of Israel" (e.x a Jew). However, there are even disputes as to whether Reuben was a Jew, or at least if he possessed the halachic status of a Jew. While this is controversal, everyone agrees that after Sinai, everyone was officially Jewish and bound by the laws of the Torah. Before that, there are those who say that they were only bound by the Noahide Laws, and others who say that they were bound by the Noahide Laws + Circumcision and a few other commandments which are essential in Judaism."

So, according to you, God never gave Abraham a covenant, only the Jews at Sinai, yeah, anyway, the covenant was passed down though Abraham, the father, so yes, Jew-ness can pass down through the father, how sad.

"I'd also like to point out for the sake of the funs and giggles that you got the word "shlit'a" spelled wrong - omitting the A. Furthermore, by calling Rabbi Mizrachi "shlita", that means that you're wishing him long life. Look up the word shlita, hahaha."

That was his name, at least on the video, your telling me that wasn't his name? Oh well, have a Shlit'a-y day amigo!
La cucaracha!
La cucaracha!
Enchilada bla bla bla!
"To conclude: This debate is completely fruitless, as literally the entire thing is based upon misunderstanding and ignorance. It would be foolish of us to continue for that reason. Also, please stop pretending to be a master of halacha as was Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal and others."

Ha cucaracha? Wow, how many types of cucarachas are there?
La cucaracha
Ha cucaracha
Ba cucaracha?
Rav I ola?
Nah, I'm just kidding, I am very familiar with halacha, its a Mexican salsa dance, HA!!!!!!!!
No really, halakha is a bunch of laws from the written and oral Torah, including lots of fun stuff like laws, more laws, and, EVEN MORE LAWS! AAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how can you have so many laws? Well duh, that's why we are loosing business here in America, there's too much REGULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!

"You do not know the first thing about Jewish Law, and needless to say the complicated matters, such as the ones I mentioned above."

Well, amigo, ob course not, do you understand the U.S. tax code? No, no one does, except maybe a few rich jerks who rip us off of OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!!!!!! Point being, The law is very simple, and can be summed up in a few sentences:
1. Don't wear cloths without tassels on them
2. Don't wear cloths of mixed fabric
3. Be ridiculous.
No wonder Jews are often Jerks, they take too much time obeying all these "laws", that they don't drink enough prune juice!!!!!!!!!
Oh yeah, and have a nice Gebhrun!!!
talmid

Pro

You yourself admitted to having been wrong, and so, I will conclude this "debate" by saying that it was over before it even started.
Debate Round No. 2
harrytruman

Con

Yes I know, I'm sorry, I shouldn't have posted that. So, I am publicly apologizing. Have a good night
talmid

Pro

talmid forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
harrytruman

Con

I forfeited this round also, this whole debate was a joke.
talmid

Pro

talmid forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
harrytruman

Con

It turns out Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi Shlit'a is actually a really good guy.
talmid

Pro

talmid forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
4 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
Part 2 apology (it wouldn't fit in one comment)
4. I insulted Jews in general by calling them jerks, when in reality Christians like myself have a much larger issue with this.
"No wonder Jews are often Jerks, they take too much time obeying all these "laws", that they don't drink enough prune juice!!!!!!!!!"
I am very sorry for all of this, in Hind sight I really blew it on this debates, I was disrespectful, arrogant, and a jerk. It seems as if my brain has been tainted with all the doctrines associated with Christian churches. I know this is no excuse, but I can really see how this may have affected my way of thinking, basically on weekends with my dad, I have a pastor that spreads hate and false doctrines such as "non-Christians are going to hell", or "Unless your husband robs a bank you should consent to everything he does", or "women should submit to their husbands in every way", including abuse or other doctrines like these.
I was talking bad about your rabbi whereas my pastor cheated on his dying wife, and kidnapped a 15 year old girl and drove her out to Vegas to marry his son without her or her parents" consent. This is common knowledge but no one in that church cares.
I insulted you because I got bested in a debate, so I was angry, I hope you accept my apology.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
I attended my first Jewish class with my mother today and in only ten minutes of a Rabbi"s teaching I learned more than many services at a Christian church with another family member. This is because the doctrines they teach there are either wrong or irrelevant, the pastor is a sexist who says that "wives should submit to their husbands in everything", and that "women were made for work", and encourages disrespect of wives and mothers. After my mom read what I wrote to you she was driven to tears. She is usually always saying she is very proud of me, but she was not proud of my behavior. She asked me if I wanted to be a better person or act better than other people, and I am ashamed of my conduct, and I was not very proud of myself anymore.
Reviewing my debate more closely, I can see a lot more disrespectful and just straight horrible things I wrote therein. These are some of my mistakes,
1. I insulted your rabbi"s accent, this is disrespectful to elders:
"Really, because I remember specifically that he said 14, unless he has a strange accent, or the word for 12 in Hebrew-ish sounds like the word 14 in English-form, but what this really boils down to is the video, where he says"
2. I insulted your intelligence:
"The Torah is Talmud amigo, and I am yet to see any more than, ph, ph, ph, 4 times, ha!!!"
3. I made fun out of your religion not just yours but also another 18 million peoples religions, and my own family, my mother.
"Nah, I'm just kidding, I am very familiar with halacha, its a Mexican salsa dance, HA!!!!!!!!
No really, halakha is a bunch of laws from the written and oral Torah, including lots of fun stuff like laws, more laws, and, EVEN MORE LAWS! AAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! how can you have so many laws? Well duh, that's why we are loosing business here in America, there's too much REGULATIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Well, amigo, ob course not, do you understand the U.S. tax code? No, no one does, except maybe a few rich jerks who rip us off of OUR TAX DOLLARS!!!!
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
I am sorry, I will check my facts first. As my mom suggested.
Posted by harrytruman 1 year ago
harrytruman
OK, I checked the video, it sad 12 times.
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