Racial Integration in the west has been a complete failure thus far.
Debate Rounds (3)
As no rules or structure were set for the debate and it seems as though my opponent has revealed his/her main argument and his/her plan to solve I will negate these this round with my own arguments. (I am assuming that by west we are referring to the USA.)
Contention 1: Progress is Apparent (Further known as C1)
Contention 2: Progress is key to attaining 'True Equality' (Further known as C2)
Contention 3: Inadequacy in stepping backwards (Further known as C3)
C1: 200 years ago the west owned slaves, we had the 3/5 compromise making African Americans 3/5 people. We had the civil war, releasing African Americans from slavery. We had the Civil rights movement to give ANYONE, despite color, the right to vote provided that they are over the age of 18. November of 2008 we voted in our first African American President. So in fact we are making progress.
C2: In order to be a complete failure in Integrating Blacks, Whites, Asians and whoever else, We would have to not be making progress. Progress towards lesser discrimination is the goal in today's society. As we achieve this the integration problem is solved in the process. At my own school that I graduated from there were many Black students, white students, Asian Students, Mexican students, and yet almost no one saw in color. By that I mean that no one cared if you were colored or not. this is not complete and utter failure, this is progress.
Sub-point A) The plan that you put forward is just plain inadequate. It reminds me of something we had before in fact. What we fought to get rid of. Separate but Equal, was the term that was used. Colored people went to one school, and non-colored went to another. Yet it wasn't equal, one of the prevailing arguments to this day about it is the fact that so long as they are separate it can not be equal. Not only the funding wasn't equal, but the idea itself isn't equal. Segregation further defines the divide between colored and not, it creates a rift between the 2. It only supports the idea that one is not equal.
Sub-point B) What would happen to all of the friends anyways? What would happen to people in the workplace, if 'de-integration' is the key, then wouldn't that spread up to the workforce as well? If so what about my parents, one is black and one is white? What about my brother who currently goes to school with our black step brother? This wouldn't just be my family torn apart by this very idea, it would be hundreds of thousands, and that itself is an indication that integration is working.
Have we come to a point where Racism doesn't exist? No. Are we progressing? Yes.
We can't rip out the foundation of our progress. It would be like actually telling women to go back to the kitchen because we have yet to attain equal pay for them in the work place. Or quitting a diet because you have not had the results you want yet. Giving up and reverting to how things were before isn't a solution, it's a surrender.
We can agree on one thing...we've made progress. However progress and success are two different things. If I remember correctly I stated that "Racial Integration in the west has been a complete failure thus far." Drop out rates, incarceration rates, and unemployment rates are all disproportionately high for minorities. With that being said, it's evident that the west has a system that is either intentionally or unintentionally designed to keep whites a privileged group. Every single day that this is the case we are violating the basic human right to be treated as equal...AKA we have failed thus far.
Response to C2:
Well here we clearly disagree. Progress is important, but it isn't the key to success. The Patriots of 2012 might have agreed with you until they lost to the giants, and Russia might have thought the same thing until the U.S.A beat them to the moon. So I think history has proven that "progress" isn't the key. We must asses the problem...the real problem. you speak of kids from your high school not "seeing in color," and that may be true, neither you or I can read minds so I won't speak on that. But it's because of this focus on the smaller picture why "institutionalized racism" can exist. Because lets face it, somebody calling me a n****r on the street does very little to affect my income level. The jump from micro to macro doesn't always translate...this is why the theory of evolution (which I hold dear) is a theory. and this is why the "progress" you speak of is a sham. We're winning...but we're fighting the wrong enemy.
Response to C3 (Sub-point A):
I care little for what the powers that be in the 50s, 60s, and 70s said. Maybe they called it equal, maybe that didn't. What they did doesn't matter to me, because I'm speaking on the here and now. Separation without exploitation a mistreatment has been proven to work. Africentric schools are an example, you may not like them, but they're helping young black youths far more than the public school system ever has. So your statement that "so long as they are separate it can not be equal" seems to be false.
Response to C3 (Sub-point B):
You're right, it will bring misfortune to some, many in fact...but not most. Like any major change some people will be negatively affect. The Civil Rights Movement left some black people dead, was that a reason to stop? Hundreds and thousands of blacks were beaten to death, lynched, burned alive, and flayed, but the movement continued. Why? Because it had to.
And your analogy about dieting is perfect, so allow me to borrow it. When you achieve success on a diet continue by all means. But when you plateau, something has to change.
Response to C2 rebuttal: Patriots vs the Giants, Russia vs the USA to the moon... there is one problem with those analogies, firstly it makes the assumption that the usa and the giants didn't also progress, progress was key to their victory, secondly how can we be beaten to the punch when our adversary is ourselves..... its fight racism vs feeding racism... and as fighting racism moves takes a step feeding it loses one... as if a giant game of tug-a-war........ As well on this argument you state the bigger picture, institutionalized racism... that term refers to racism on a personal level on a business level, on the level of the media and the government. But you state that someone calling you the N word on the street doesn't affect you pay, so I'll assume you're talking about on the business level... however you are completely wrong, the little picture does affect the big picture in many ways, as we progress in killing out racism on a personal level, the more it seeps into the business management... Think about it, the more people who are not racist in this world, the more people heading businesses aren't racist. translating directly from micro to macro as you state it doesn't.... fighting racism at its core, a personal level.... What enemy is the right enemy in your mind, and why should we be separate rather than united to face it?
Response to C3 rebuttal:
sub-point A)Those whom forget their past are doomed to repeat it, and I guess this holds true for those who don't care what our predecessors did. We may call it Separate but Equal again, but whether or not it miraculously attains equality on a monetary level you ignore my point that the separation of 2 things further signifies the difference between them.... until we recognize that we are one people. we will not see each other as our equals....
sub-point B)Well once again I state that, because in order to revert back to segregation we would have to tear hundreds of thousands of families apart, it should be apparent that racial integration is succeeding.... but to those who were beaten to death, lynched, burned alive, and flayed..... terrible things, happening to those who were fighting for what they believed in. Yes it continued, because they had to make history a better place where that wouldn't happen.. They kept going because the alternative was much worse, going back to.. What you're talking about is tearing families apart who want to stay together, thousands of families.... and for what? to revert back to separation.
This 'diet' is several decades old, we just voted in the first African American President a few years back... Doesn't sound like a plateau to me.
Ezeek forfeited this round.
ProgressiveSlayer forfeited this round.
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