The Instigator
leafy_kille
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Valar_Dohaeris
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points

Racism and crime

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Valar_Dohaeris
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/6/2015 Category: Politics
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 555 times Debate No: 67931
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

leafy_kille

Con

Ok I have tried this before on here but I feel that my last topic may have been too complicated so I'm going to try something much easier.

Is there any evidence (ideally a graph of some sort) to show the proportion of crimes committed in London England by black people, white people, asian people etc. as a proportion of the populous of each ethnic group? or are people too scared of being called racist for telling the truth?

My position is that as a proportion of the population black people commit more crimes, especially the nastier crimes like murder and rape, than white people.

if you are not interested in an intellectual debate don't bother to reply, if you have a racist agenda go somewhere else!

I want to know if there are any any statistics on this matter or if it is all simply conjecture, please quote your sources if you give any statistics.
Valar_Dohaeris

Pro

I accept, I am going to challenge the topic at hand because it is a trusim
Debate Round No. 1
leafy_kille

Con

I have failed to find any useful statistics that relate to London England, I honestly wish there where some useful information, I have however managed to find this article

http://empathyeducates.org...

it is about New York, it very clearly states that although there are far more searches of black people the probability that those searches will yield anything is far lower for black people.
This means that, at least for New York, it would be false to say that black people commit more crimes per capita than whites, they are just searched more.
Valar_Dohaeris

Pro

this debate is a trusim, as con is affirming per his round 1 that black people commit more crimes in london

http://www.bnp.org.uk...
https://www.gov.uk...

Meaning it is a statistical fact that blacks commit more crimes than whites in london. You cannot argue against a statistical fact. In formal debate a trusim is frowned upon because it harms the integrity of debate

1) It harms fairness in debates. Debating is the exchange of ideas over a topic with intellectual discourse. If someone has an advantage that cannot be conquered because their side is a proven fact it harms, the purpose of debate itself.

2) It also harms the educational value of debates. Another purpose of debate is learning from what is being debated. Debating a trusim also negates that, as you are debating a confirmed statistic. It depletes ones ability to properly learn about the subject in question so it kills the purpose in debate

As such I urge you to vote pro and uphold the value of debate
Debate Round No. 2
leafy_kille

Con

Firstly, the BNP are openly racist, so I feel that their messages are somewhat biased, as such I will make no further reference to them.

The statistics from the government report are however much more interesting.

The following statistics come from page 11 table A:
https://www.gov.uk...
white populous 42897771
black populous 1307268
white stop and searches 767316
black stop and searches 166708
white cautions 191221
black cautions 16338
white proportion of stop and search resulting in caution 24.9%
black proportion of stop and search resulting in caution 9.8%

this shows clearly, that the same as in New York black people are not committing more crimes, they are simply being searched more and arrested more.

The reason blacks are over represented in crime statistics is because a higher proportion of their crimes are investigated.

Also I would like to point out that I would not bring a debate that is a non issue or a 'trusim' (normally spelt truism) to the table, and attacking the integrity of someone's debate rather than making a meaningful argument is low.
Valar_Dohaeris

Pro

Cons study applies to a specific area. His study does also not factor in population rates. Meaning the reason whites *sometimes* commit more crimes is that there are more of them. Blacks *on a percentage basis* commit more crimes in the UK.

His assertion and resolution from round 1 states this

" My position is that as a proportion of the population black people commit more crimes, especially the nastier crimes like murder and rape, than white people. "

If he is affirming blacks commit more crimes, he is debating a truism. Meaning his affirmation of this can not be debate because as I have pointed out throughout this debate, it is a fact

If he states white people commit more crimes (which he just did ) he negated his own affirmation.

Either way he has lost this debate.

vote pro
Debate Round No. 3
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by Kasshu 2 years ago
Kasshu
Corporation commit far more crimes than any street criminal. Difference between the two is that what they do is not classified as a crime, because they write laws. EX: A cigarette kills the user, the environment, and everyone around the area. Tally up the amount of deaths caused by cigarettes over the years. The number is astounding laws are made to protect society by banning immoral acts cigarettes should be illegal. They are not because corporations write laws. If you know a product kills someone and you still sell it and they die is that not "Murder"??
Posted by basils 2 years ago
basils
Yes they are however that is because they are usually in lower income areas. After the slaves were freed no one tried to help them as it would be pretty damn hard to do so.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by YYW 2 years ago
YYW
leafy_killeValar_DohaerisTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: In a question of who has the most compelling evidence to substantiate their points, it is very clear that PRO wins. And that's really all this debate came down too.
Vote Placed by Tweka 2 years ago
Tweka
leafy_killeValar_DohaerisTied
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Reasons for voting decision: It is a truism. Unfair position Con sets to Pro. Also, Con unknowingly rebuts his own argument, causing him to lose this debate.
Vote Placed by 16kadams 2 years ago
16kadams
leafy_killeValar_DohaerisTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: It is undisputed that African-Americans commit more crime. It is a truism, as pro pointed out. CON offers no *hard* evidence that black people are investigated more. They commit more crime because they commit more crime. It is a fact, it isn't racism. And it isn't because they are black, a lot of it has to do with poverty. Regardless, CON offers little proof of his assertion whereas PRO demonstrates how African-Americans do, on balance, commit more crime.