The Instigator
Adam2isback
Pro (for)
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0 Points
The Contender
GOAT_23_6
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Racism and slavery in America had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with each other

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/13/2015 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 502 times Debate No: 75230
Debate Rounds (4)
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Adam2isback

Pro

The racism that came to America had to do with feelings of white superiority that was brought with them from the West. As many immigrants started coming in big numbers (including African immigrants), many of the native white population feared their culture was going to be changed by "scum" races. Also there was the brutal conquest of Native American land by presidents like James Polk and Andrew Jackson. Abraham Lincoln was also a racist against Natives. During the Civil War, there was also wars to expand Westward (he appointed a racist man named Rowan Hinton Helper [which will be my subject for another debate]), but he also was anti-slavery, most importantly.

They're also two different things. Slavery is absolute power over another human being. Racism has to do with hating another race. Plus, the reason Europeans enslaved the natives had to do with religion.
GOAT_23_6

Con

I will accept this argument.

You are absolutely unbelievable if you think racism and slavery were nothing alike. Why did the slave trade happen? Because we found a people of lesser power, who were a different race, and because they were that race and only that reason, we put them to work with force. It is the same thing. The slave owners calling them the n word all the time, that's racist. But, I guess to get a real perspective, what is your idea of racism?
Debate Round No. 1
Adam2isback

Pro


You are absolutely unbelievable if you think racism and slavery were nothing alike. Why did the slave trade happen? Because we found a people of lesser power, who were a different race, and because they were that race and only that reason, we put them to work with force. It is the same thing. The slave owners calling them the n word all the time, that's racist. But, I guess to get a real perspective, what is your idea of racism?
The slave trade happened for this reason: Africans, as well as Natives, were chosen for enslavement. The main reason was that Europeans were Christians, and the natives weren't, so in their mind they had to be punished.
As for the n-word and slaveowners using it, it's impossible. First of all, slaveowners were too concerned about their goals to even form an opinion of blacks (which were needed by them). If anything, "heathen" was probably more the word that slaveowners used more than anything else. Slavery basically was the same as it was in Europe or anywhere else at the time. This isn't my condoning or condemning it mind you, just saying it how it is.

As far as planation slavery, the slavery that Lincoln destroyed the South to destroy was started by a black man, Anthony Johnson. The slave Lincoln would end was started by him. He petitioned the English to allow slavery.

Racism basically is hatred of one or more races other than your own, and, to make it automatically opposite from slavery, the desire to keep them away from you, even if it has to be enfored with violence (lynching).
GOAT_23_6

Con

Yes, as a matter of fact it did. Have you ever read the book Roots? Obviously the slave owners often used the N word to talk to their slaves. Also, the Ku Klux Klan was started right after slavery was abolished, and these people would run around on horses and set houses of African-Americans on fire and take them out back and whip them over and over. They did this, because they hated the black race, which is racism. It all started in 1866 by Nathan Bedford. Slavery was abolished in 1865. So, for you to say that racism and slavery had nothing to do with each other is ridiculous. Clearly, slavery lead Americans to believe that blacks were a lesser race. Slavery caused racism.
Debate Round No. 2
Adam2isback

Pro

Yes, as a matter of fact it did. Have you ever read the book Roots? Obviously the slave owners often used the N word to talk to their slaves.
First of all, points for grammar will be taken off. Roots should be italicized or quoted. Anyways, Roots is "faction," according to its creator. The brutality and whipping was real. The racial epithets were probably made up (mostly by uneducated writers [I will be nice for the sake of debate, so "uneducated" is a nicer form of a term of how I really feel about those who claim racism = slavery]).

Clearly, slavery lead Americans to believe that blacks were a lesser race. Slavery caused racism.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
A racist abolitionist against slavery. More racist Americans were of his type.
http://en.wikipedia.org...
He appointed Rowan to a government spot, which shows that Lincoln was a racist, but he also was against slavery, so what does that tell you?
http://en.wikipedia.org...(colonist)
He is the man that started slavery in North America's British colonies, later to be continued in the South. It wasn't started by a white man. In fact the English themselves were going to end it, but this man insisted to start it. Plus many black slaveholders still exist -- ever seen Black Snake Moon?

Also, the Ku Klux Klan was started right after slavery was abolished, and these people would run around on horses and set houses of African-Americans on fire and take them out back and whip them over and over.
That's just a coincidence. Whites against slavery (Hinton Rowan Helper) were afraid of what they thought blacks were capable of, being free. They were afraid white women were going to be raped. And it wasn't just against blacks (as an incident about 26 years later was incited against Italians in Louisiana, as well as against non-whites in the USA). The Klansman followed Helper's beliefs. Many of the slaveowners fled to South America, where slavery was legal still. He was morally against slavery and he had an intense hatred of blacks and other non-whites at the same time.

They did this, because they hated the black race, which is racism.
That's true, but it still doesn't have anything to do with slavery.

It all started in 1866 by Nathan Bedford. Slavery was abolished in 1865. So, for you to say that racism and slavery had nothing to do with each other is ridiculous.
Doesn't prove anything thing. Slavery ending in 1865, and the Klan beginning in 1866 doesn't make them anymore similar than Seinfeld having begun in 1989 and Wings having begun in 1990. Two different types of shows altogether.
GOAT_23_6

Con

Why should that be points taken off for no putting Roots in italics?

Anyways, Roots is "faction," according to its creator.

Just because it is "faction" doesn't mean they never said the N-word. And probably will not do any justice in proving your argument.

That's just a coincidence.

Very funny coincidence isn't it? The fact that white-men were mad that they couldn't have black men and women slaving away on their farms to give them profit. The fact that you are backing up slavery is ridiculous. Also, I don't care if Lincoln was a racist or not. Just because he abolished slavery doesn't turn it either way.

Doesn't prove anything thing. Slavery ending in 1865, and the Klan beginning in 1866 doesn't make them anymore similar than Seinfeld having begun in 1989 and Wings having begun in 1990. Two different types of shows altogether.

Neither does putting two different topics into an argument. When old plantation owners found out that blacks would be able to roam the streets, instead of picking the cotton for their "massas" they reacted in the only way they deemed fit. Attack someone who can't defend themselves, because if they did, they would be accused for beating up a white man for no reason. It's not fair.
Debate Round No. 3
Adam2isback

Pro

Why should that be points taken off for no putting Roots in italics?
It's because grammar does count.

Just because it is "faction" doesn't mean they never said the N-word. And probably will not do any justice in proving your argument.
As I've said, the reason the enslavement of Africans happened was because of their status as heathens. As a matter of fact, the particular brand of slavery you're talking of began by a black man (as I've given in the sources). Note con has not given any sources to back up what he said. He hasn't even came up with a logical argument to defend the similarities.

Very funny coincidence isn't it? The fact that white-men were mad that they couldn't have black men and women slaving away on their farms to give them profit. The fact that you are backing up slavery is ridiculous. Also, I don't care if Lincoln was a racist or not. Just because he abolished slavery doesn't turn it either way.
How about afraid of what they feared blacks were capable of doing to not just them, but their women, and their property. That's why the Klan was formed. Whites were paranoid of what blacks were capable of doing. They were paranoid of their world being destroyed by "those non-white savages." That's why the Klan was formed.

Neither does putting two different topics into an argument. When old plantation owners found out that blacks would be able to roam the streets, instead of picking the cotton for their "massas" they reacted in the only way they deemed fit. Attack someone who can't defend themselves, because if they did, they would be accused for beating up a white man for no reason. It's not fair.
It was giving rights to the non-whites in general that the whites were not pleased about. Not only that, but you have more a case if you say that poverty was the reasons whites did those dramatic and drastic things. They were not happy that they weren't on top.
http://www.colorado.edu...
While open racism was pretty much common everywhere, white folks in the South, being poor, had a jealousy of blacks and other non-whites who were on top of them, which led them to kill (and this system of deceit, continued by LBJ) https://www.youtube.com...

There's a reason why I put that. Last time I checked, the Klansman were not trying to abolish the 13th amendment, which was to abolish slavery. It's the 14th amendment (which had to do with rights, and nothing to do with the 13th amendment by the way, since it was passed years after slavery ended).
http://en.wikipedia.org...;
GOAT_23_6

Con

It's because grammar does count.

That's not really grammar, but okay.

the reason the enslavement of Africans happened was because of their status as heathens.

Why was their status heathen? Is it not racist to say that someone that is a different race, makes them a heathen? And I don't need any sources, my answers are common sense.

How about afraid of what they feared blacks were capable of doing to not just them, but their women, and their property.

They should've been scared! But, being as that the blacks were still scared of the white man, because they had protection from the law, they couldn't retaliate. The Klan was formed soelly because blacks were free, and the white's did not like it.

It was giving rights to the non-whites in general that the whites were not pleased about. Not only that, but you have more a case if you say that poverty was the reasons whites did those dramatic and drastic things.

Thank you for proving my point. Whites were mad that OTHER races were getting rights. That's racism. Not liking another culture because their different from yours. Did you ever hear of a white man whip another white man, because he wasn't working hard enough? Yeah, me either. What are rights? Rights play right into slavery if you ask me. The 14th amendment was rights to all citizens. Abolishing slavery meant that blacks became citizens. If you're trying to get rid of the 14th amendment, you're also trying to get rid of the 13th. And if what you say is true about the Klansmen (points of grammar will be taken off because you used Klansman instead of Klansmen) not wanting to give the blacks rights, and that the 14th was passed years after slavery ended, then why did the Klan start right after slavery ended?

https://www.law.cornell.edu...
Debate Round No. 4
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