The Instigator
ccstate4peat
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MTGandP
Pro (for)
Winning
29 Points

Racism

Do you like this debate?NoYes+1
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Con Tied Pro
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/11/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,054 times Debate No: 8946
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (5)

 

ccstate4peat

Con

I would like to see someone take on a nearly impossible challenge. I don't want to do it. I wan't to find the best debater on this site. You don't have to agree with your position, but don't take this debate and be hateful.
MTGandP

Pro

I want to begin by saying that I am in no way a racist and do not necessarily agree with what I am saying. Because this subject is a touchy one, I request that readers vote based on who presents their arguments more effectively and not on who is taking the side generally accepted by society, or any similar measure.

To clarify, I am arguing that racism is just under the proper circumstances. My opponent is arguing that it is never just. Though some may say that this reduces my BOP too much, I would like to point out the nature of the topic, and also that it is nearly impossible to prove that racism is acceptable all the time. This topic is analogous to the death penalty: those for it only argue that it is acceptable some of the time, while those against it argue that it is never acceptable.

Definitions (The American Heritage Dictionary)

Race: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.
Racism: The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
Superior: Of a higher nature or kind.

========

Contention 1: Different races are necessarily genetically different: therefore, some races are superior to others.

It is undeniable that different races have genetic differences. At this time, I wish to invoke a more elaborate definition of "superior": one entity is superior to another if it is more capable of the continuation of its genes, i.e. gene survival. Since two different races have different genes, it is very statistically unlikely that they are each exactly as adept at gene survival; therefore, one race is evolutionarily superior to the other, and should be treated as such.

========

Contention 2: Some races are better at certain tasks.

For example, races with dark skin are better at tasks involving extensive outdoor labor, as they are far less prone to sunburn. There are other less obvious examples, which I do not care to spend the time necessary to think of. It directly follows that certain races are superior regarding certain tasks, and racism on a limited scope should be employed when determining who should be chosen to accomplish those tasks.

========

I thank my opponent for this interesting, if rather unorthodox, debate.
Debate Round No. 1
ccstate4peat

Con

"Different races are necessarily genetically different: therefore, some races are superior to others." This is true, but in no way proves that being racist is a good thing. Being racist would hinder the inferior race's quality of life. Knowing that you are worse than someone is not comforting information. The superior race would most likely oppress the other race(s) with the knowledge that they are better. They would make the inferior race do everything they don't want to, and oppress them economically. If the superior race accepted the other race, they would both benefit by being able to work together.

"Some races are better at certain tasks." Once again, this is true, but does not justify racism. It is bad if someone is being forced to work in tough conditions just because they are better at it. This is not helping that group if they are better at something. If they use their superior skills to oppress the inferior group, that is also bad. Racism does not help at all.
MTGandP

Pro

My opponent has avoided my real points and has extrapolated unnecessarily. He has committed the slippery slope fallacy [1, 2] by asserting that if some races are thought to be superior to others, then the "superior" race will necessarily oppress the "inferior" race. My opponent has yet to explain why this follows.

"[That some races are superior to others] is true, but in no way proves that being racist is a good thing."
My opponent has conveniently left off the rest of my contention. If a race is superior, it should be acknowledged as such: truth is to be upheld as an important value. My opponent would have us deny the truth, simply because of his own wild predictions. Reality must be held in accordance with the truth.

"It is bad if someone is being forced to work in tough conditions just because they are better at it."
My opponent has not said why. But he even assumes that simply because a race is acknowledged as better at a certain task, that peoples of that race will be forced to perform that task. It is enough simply to know that those people are better at the task in question: that way they can be hired more frequently, encouraged to work in that field, etc.

Interestingly enough, my opponent's paragraphs are in conflict. In his first, he states that "[t]he superior race would most likely oppress the other race(s)", but in his second he states that "[i]t is bad if someone is BEING FORCED TO work in tough conditions just because they are BETTER at it." (My emphasis.) The first phrase claims that superior races will oppress other races, and the second claims that superior races will be oppressed. Not only does my opponent have no evidence for either of these claims, but they are contradictory.

"This is not helping that group if they are better at something."
As a matter of fact, if people are working at what they are better at, society is more productive, so it actually does help the group.

"Racism does not help at all."
As I have proven, racism is not only on the path to truth, but it is actually helpful, and boosts society's productivity.

[1] http://www.nizkor.org...
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 2
ccstate4peat

Con

What if the group that is better at doing a task, lets say it's mining. No one really likes mining, but some race would have to do it because they are better at it. What if that race wants to be doctors? They can't do it because the race that is better at being doctors are all doctors.

If every race had to do what they were best at, eventually a job like chauffeur or taxi driver would be done by the race who is fifth best at it. If the race who is best at driving is better at computer programming, they would do programming. If the race who is second best at driving is the best at interior design they will design and not drive. This would continue until the job goes to a race who isn't that good at it. This might not necessarily happen to all driving jobs, but maybe pilots or something else that involves transportation. This would make people late and decrease productivity. It could also go to a job involving making stuff, this would make products not as good as they were supposed to be and therefore it would decrease productivity.
MTGandP

Pro

I would like to point out that my opponent has not responded to my first contention, so he can be considered to have conceded it.

My opponent is misrepresenting my second contention. At no point did I state that races should be forced to do labor. What I meant was that, since certain races are better at certain tasks, those races can be preferentially hired by employers. Every single man and woman still gets to make their own career choice, but even so, certain jobs can be further optimized.

My opponent's scenario about a decrease in productivity makes no sense. If people are working the jobs that they are best at, society becomes more efficient. My opponent has made up a series of fantastical scenarios in which society becomes less efficient, but in reality, this is not possible.

In conclusion, I have shown that racism leads to a more productive society. People cooperate more efficiently. Contrary to what my opponent believes, racism will change the world for the better.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Well thank you. Although alto2osu and Maikuru, and possibly RoyLatham, as well as some other people that I've never debated, are probably better than me.
Posted by ccstate4peat 7 years ago
ccstate4peat
[b]I[/b] personally think you are the best debater on this site, but I don't know what the others think.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Well . . . I guess I'm the best debater on the site now. XD
Posted by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
Before: CON
After: TIE - PRO made some very convincing arguments.
Conduct: PRO - The premises of this debate were a little ridiculous. See CON's opening "argument".
S & G : TIE - No egregious errors on either side.
Convincing Arguments : PRO. CON was unable to accurately refute PRO's points. In addition, PRO did not really present an argument.
Reliable Sources : PRO. 3 or 4 to 0
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Races don't exist :) Stick that in your pipe and smoke it... :P
Posted by Alex 7 years ago
Alex
If i took this, i would have just supported Positive racism. Like saying African Americans are incredible at sports, etc.

Con said nothing about it having to be negative racism.
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
Oh, don't worry. (evil grin)
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
This debate is gunna be good. (Hopefully.)

Please don't disappoint. (Especially you- MTGandP.)
Posted by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
I just might take this. So I can claim the title of Best Debater On This Site.
5 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Vote Placed by mongeese 7 years ago
mongeese
ccstate4peatMTGandPTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05 
Vote Placed by critterrice 7 years ago
critterrice
ccstate4peatMTGandPTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by FlashFire 7 years ago
FlashFire
ccstate4peatMTGandPTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by untitled_entity 7 years ago
untitled_entity
ccstate4peatMTGandPTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:06 
Vote Placed by MTGandP 7 years ago
MTGandP
ccstate4peatMTGandPTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:05