The Instigator
RationalMadman
Pro (for)
Tied
7 Points
The Contender
emospongebob527
Con (against)
Tied
7 Points

Racist, sexist and sexually related jokes should not be viewed as offencive

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/19/2012 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,544 times Debate No: 27368
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (12)
Votes (2)

 

RationalMadman

Pro

NO semantics, normal definitions of the words, if you try and give some funny definition of joke or offensive you forfeit all 7 points. I just want to understand why saying "why do chainsaws scare black people?"..."Cause when they run they say RUNNNN NIGGANIGGANIGGA RUNNN NIGGANIGGANIGGA (said in voice of a vibrating chainsaw)" should offend black people, I mean it's funny hahaha.
emospongebob527

Con

I accept.
Debate Round No. 1
RationalMadman

Pro

I never said round 1 is only for acceptance. However since con failed to even discuss the issue I shall begin my case.

What is it to be offensive? To be offensive is to DIRECTLY harm someone's ego, emotional well being or belief system in a manner which clearly either shows intention of doing so or no intention where awareness should definitely be brought (if you believe in indirect offence than I warn you a simple counter is ANYTHING can be seen as an indirect offence so that's ridiculous).

Here is the fundamental issue I have with saying these jokes are offensive (NOTICE I NEVER SAID RELIGIOUS JOKES). They are about things a person CANNOT HELP (even your sex life, if you believe in fate, is basically what comes of you and the other person at that time you don't technically help your ability in bed... Let's not discuss free will). I mean if a guy is black and you make a joke about black skinned individuals why shouldn't he laugh, in fact why not the LOUDEST of them all?! I was a very bullied and teased child because I had buck teeth (thank the holy father in heaven for braces) and basically was called rabbit. Now, prior to even knowing of 8 mile or eminem, I would just laugh and say rabbits have the wildest sex and smiled and walked away. In this way the bullies laughed in hysteria as did I. It was all good fun and I didn't get offended. I have been offended when people made some personal jokes about me but that is my fault for being offended. We live in a worldwide society that prides itself on an increasing level, and degree, of the pure and utter freedom of speech (short of swearing in public) so I fail to see the justification for not finding error with those find offence as opposed to those who make the humorous remarks.

In the end, blonde jokes (yes I will accept you can analogise racist jokes to blonde jokes) are basically funny and I hope even the smartest blonde in the world can find humour in how ridiculous a proposition it is that hair colour determines IQ (considering that three hair colours are solely shown by Caucasians, or mixed race kids with some Caucasian blood meaning that all non Caucasians automatically are not dumb since they never have blonde hair).

The phrase "gingers have no souls" isn't funny and therefore isn't a joke and I can definitely understand why it is offensive, I never say it (but thank God I'm not ginger.... If you can't tell that what I just said was meant as a contextual joke you need to get a new sense of humour).
emospongebob527

Con

I never said round 1 is only for acceptance. However since con failed to even discuss the issue I shall begin my case.


If the instigator doesn't reserve R1 for acceptance, it becomes the acceptance round. You should know that..............

What is it to be offensive? To be offensive is to DIRECTLY harm someone's ego, emotional well being or belief system in a manner which clearly either shows intention of doing so or no intention where awareness should definitely be brought (if you believe in indirect offence than I warn you a simple counter is ANYTHING can be seen as an indirect offence so that's ridiculous).


Irrelavent.

Here is the fundamental issue I have with saying these jokes are offensive (NOTICE I NEVER SAID RELIGIOUS JOKES). They are about things a person CANNOT HELP (even your sex life, if you believe in fate, is basically what comes of you and the other person at that time you don't technically help your ability in bed... Let's not discuss free will). I mean if a guy is black and you make a joke about black skinned individuals why shouldn't he laugh, in fact why not the LOUDEST of them all?!

Because he finds it offensive, thanks for coming.

I was a very bullied and teased child because I had buck teeth (thank the holy father in heaven for braces) and basically was called rabbit. Now, prior to even knowing of 8 mile or eminem, I would just laugh and say rabbits have the wildest sex and smiled and walked away. In this way the bullies laughed in hysteria as did I. It was all good fun and I didn't get offended. I have been offended when people made some personal jokes about me but that is my fault for being offended.

Your personal beliefs and prescriptions will not always entail truth and logic, young one.

We live in a worldwide society that prides itself on an increasing level, and degree, of the pure and utter freedom of speech (short of swearing in public) so I fail to see the justification for not finding error with those find offence as opposed to those who make the humorous remarks.


Because, people find it offensive regardless of others freedoms, that has already been addressed.

In the end, blonde jokes (yes I will accept you can analogise racist jokes to blonde jokes) are basically funny and I hope even the smartest blonde in the world can find humour in how ridiculous a proposition it is that hair colour determines IQ (considering that three hair colours are solely shown by Caucasians, or mixed race kids with some Caucasian blood meaning that all non Caucasians automatically are not dumb since they never have blonde hair).

I cannot stress this enough, SOME PEOPLE FIND ASININE REMARKS OFFENSIVE.

The phrase "gingers have no souls" isn't funny and therefore isn't a joke and I can definitely understand why it is offensive, I never say it (but thank God I'm not ginger.... If you can't tell that what I just said was meant as a contextual joke you need to get a new sense of humour).


This blatantly contradicts your resolution.
Debate Round No. 2
RationalMadman

Pro

Your counters are literally once sentence per entire paragraph of mine... In fact your counter to my first one is a misspelling or irrelevant.

I don't really understand them either...

You suggest that my definition of offensive is irrelevant but if I do not define it then there is clearly a relevant definition required (which you failed to provide).

But just because a man happens to find it offensive doesn't mean racist, sexist and sexually related jokes should not be viewed as offensive. This is a key factor here.

"Your personal beliefs and prescriptions will not always entail truth and logic, young one." Why not? Also I think in this case it did.

Your counter to all my remaining points revolved around the idea that offense and jokes are self intuitive and that if one man finds it offensive this proves it should... It doesn't.

The ginger remark was to display what a joke exactly is as opposed to an insult.
emospongebob527

Con

emospongebob527 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
RationalMadman

Pro

The alpha male has shown its prowess.
emospongebob527

Con

Your counters are literally once sentence per entire paragraph of mine... In fact your counter to my first one is a misspelling or irrelevant.

I don't really understand them either...


See the below.

You suggest that my definition of offensive is irrelevant but if I do not define it then there is clearly a relevant definition required (which you failed to provide).


I do not suggest that your definition of offensive is irrelevant, what I am getting at is that the context and claims that held it and revolved around it's placement was off-topic rambling and a strawman.

But just because a man happens to find it offensive doesn't mean racist, sexist and sexually related jokes should not be viewed as offensive. This is a key factor here.

Lol, I feel as if you blatantly contradict yourself here; you claim that it doesn't mean they should be viewed as offensive, which entails that you are mixing up our resolutions, you are the one defending that premise, not me.


"Your personal beliefs and prescriptions will not always entail truth and logic, young one." Why not? Also I think in this case it did.

Because if everything that came out of everyone's mouth were true, then everything would be false, with the exception of a small group of people (or no one) who says a certain thing, unless you can prove that you are right 100% of the time.

Your counter to all my remaining points revolved around the idea that offense and jokes are self intuitive and that if one man finds it offensive this proves it should... It doesn't.

If you entail that self intuitive claims are fallacies, then you concede your entire argument because it strongly revolves around self intuitive applications.


The ginger remark was to display what a joke exactly is as opposed to an insult.


Jokes still hurt.
Debate Round No. 4
RationalMadman

Pro

RationalMadman forfeited this round.
emospongebob527

Con

Thanks for the debate RM :)
Debate Round No. 5
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
Silly votebomber :3
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
minimack you're the man.
Posted by Minimack 4 years ago
Minimack
besides...

I am blonde and I have heard some of the worst and best blonde jokes ever. I find them funny, because I know that being blonde does not make me dumb. (plus on TV its always the red head who are seen as idiots) If someone told a joke about a Jew or a Mexican that doesn't mean that the person they are telling, who may happen to be a jewish person or a mexican-american, is whatever the joke makes them out to be. They should not view it as such.
Posted by Minimack 4 years ago
Minimack
I never said round 1 is only for acceptance. However since con failed to even discuss the issue I shall begin my case.

If the instigator doesn't reserve R1 for acceptance, it becomes the acceptance round. You should know that..............

Even I did no know that. I have never seen a debate in which round one was reserved for acceptance. They always 'dive' right into their debate. No blame should be put on RationalMadman for not knowing that. I have read, or seen, anywhere that that is a requirement.

Here is the fundamental issue I have with saying these jokes are offensive (NOTICE I NEVER SAID RELIGIOUS JOKES). They are about things a person CANNOT HELP (even your sex life, if you believe in fate, is basically what comes of you and the other person at that time you don't technically help your ability in bed... Let's not discuss free will). I mean if a guy is black and you make a joke about black skinned individuals why shouldn't he laugh, in fact why not the LOUDEST of them all?!

Because he finds it offensive, thanks for coming.

Who here is saying that the African American man is finding the joke offensive. The instigator is only saying the male should not be offended because he is Black, and the joke is funny (whatever the joke is). It is not like the joke targets that man personally anyway.

I enjoy this debate, I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way, I just wanted the chance to make my case. I am with the instigator on this one. Contender, I am not saying you are a bad debater, you are a good one, I Just like to do this sort of thing.
My case is closed.
Posted by Minimack 4 years ago
Minimack
This is for the contender:
In round one you say RationalMadman's first paragraph is irrelevant. How? That first paragraph is pretty much the entire basis of his whole argument.

Another point you make: Your personal beliefs and prescriptions will not always entail truth and logic, young one.
Peoples personal beliefs don't have to entail truth and logic, that isn't what person beliefs and prescriptions are for. They are for you to THINK what you want, not tell or make truth of what you want. And in this case, I believe RationalMadman's 'belief' was more of a personal story (which was true) was to show a point of view. If an actual thing that happened did not show truth, then it probably isn't a real thing that happened. However, not all things are very logical, so I will not say it was a real thing because it showed logic, that would not be honest.

Also, you say: 'I cannot stress this enough, SOME PEOPLE FIND ASININE REMARKS OFFENSIVE.'
I believe the instigator said that blonde JOKES were funny and hair color does not make people smart or dumb. They said nothing about asinine remarks. Plus, if you mean that some people take jokes as asinine remarks, I'm sure humans know the difference between someone saying "A blonde is an idiot" and someone saying "Why did he blonde get fired from the M & M factory........Because she through away all the W's!" My point is it is hard to make a comment sound like a joke, and a joke sound like a comment.

I am not being rude here, I am enjoying this debate very much, and I was just pointing out my opinions and beliefs. I do, however have more to say, But I only have 300 characters left. Continued in next comment...
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
100% with you minimack.
Posted by Minimack 4 years ago
Minimack
One more point:
a joke is a joke, it's funny. A comment however is rude.
I say it's fine for people to tell funny jokes, but not kewl for people to make rude, snide comments of peoples sexuality, race, religion, and so on.
Posted by Minimack 4 years ago
Minimack
I agree that jokes that are sexist, racist, etc. should not be found offensive. After all they are just jokes. It's not like when I tell them I specifically told it about a certain person or a certain race/gender, you know? They are made to make you laugh, not make you mad.
Posted by RationalMadman 4 years ago
RationalMadman
I never knew.
Posted by emospongebob527 4 years ago
emospongebob527
If you don't say R1 is for acceptance, it is automatically is, per rules of debate.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by Ron-Paul 4 years ago
Ron-Paul
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Counter-VB the usually good voter emj32.
Vote Placed by emj32 4 years ago
emj32
RationalMadmanemospongebob527Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: RUNNNN NIGGANIGGANIGGA RUNNN NIGGANIGGANIGGA