The Instigator
AdamCW12
Pro (for)
Tied
22 Points
The Contender
Demosthenes
Con (against)
Tied
22 Points

Radical Christian Evangelists are bad for America

Do you like this debate?NoYes+0
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/30/2007 Category: Religion
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,298 times Debate No: 1181
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (12)

 

AdamCW12

Pro

There is a show that is on A&E now this is the first time watching it, it is called Jesus camp. Now this led me to do further research which led me to a website called God Hates Gays(which is not the name of the website but i am not aloud to say because it coundts as profanity).com now this is a web site that goes totally aginst the government and also stomps the flag as well as protest the arrival of dead soldiers back from the wars. Now i am an athiest and i feel that i need more education and that is what i hope to gain from this round. I have many more fellings and opinons on this but i want to here from someone who is actually a christian or even better a radical christian who either feels the same way as the people on the web site God Hates Gays.com or as attended jesus camp. Please Educate me.
Demosthenes

Con

OK I'm going to answer the title of this, because the rest of it did not make a lot of sense to me.

First, no group speaking their mind is bad for America. On the contrary, people speaking their minds and availing themselves of the rights given to us is what we NEED right now, not more apathy. Now I personally do not agree with most, if not all of the radical Christians' stances, but they are free to express them.

Far too many people today do not care about the political process or their rights. They just expect them to always be their rights, and think they will always be safe. What most people don't understand is you have only the rights you can defend. The right to protest is defended BY PROTESTING. The right to free speech is defended BY SPEAKING. Exercising one's rights is the best way to become knowledgeable about them, and while these radicals may be crazy at least they care.

Are they annoying? Absolutely. Are they bad for America? No. A group getting together and expressing their thoughts is NEVER bad in a democratic republic, even if the ideas are bad or unjust. At least if they are unjust the society can gather together and decide that it will ignore the crazies. It is an effective technique, especially if the people who we would like to go away think the louder they chant the more they are heard.

Expression is never bad in this day and age when it seems having an opinion gets you in trouble for offending people.
Debate Round No. 1
AdamCW12

Pro

1. As for your First point I some what agree with you that a group speaking there mind is no bad. Now what you need to do sir is resarch Fred Phelps, he was the ran that was amongst the first to start protest against soldiers as well as against gay people. Now this is how it is bad for America when we look at Africa and Middle East and places like that we see constant violance and radical terrorist groups which most (not all) base themselvs off the Islam Religon, that rhetoric would come to America. Now we See this happenging with in Jesus Camp she is essentially telling these kidds to be predjudice. Also EVERY ONE fallowing this debate needs to check out http://www.signmovies.net...

2. Well good sir I know that what you say is true and I really only have one response for this. They havent got in any trouble for the Atrocitys that they commit but it is still bad for American and everyone that lives in America just cross apply my First point essintally.

3. Well you see sir that is the problem people are starting to here them just look at the comments. Now to stop these people will have to be through the State but these people are still bad for America.
Demosthenes

Con

The people are not important in this debate. Period. This is a debate over whether or not we are allowed to silence opinions and ideas we don't like. Sorry "my good sir" that's not how this country works. Everyone, regardless of race, creed, religion, or any other differentiating factor. I'm sorry, but you don't get to make that decision. The 1st Amendment applies to everyone, even crazy people. Or religious people.

Exactly what atrocities are you exposing? Feel free to name them. And who doesn't get punished? You can't mean people like Warren Jeffs and some of the radial Christians who've had their homes blown apart by the FBI or ATF. They get the exact same punishment as anyone else, Christian or not. A man who murders an abortion doctor gets the same sentence as a husband who shoots a man for sleeping with his wife.

Again, how can the state stop them? Any law that states they cannot protest or publish books, videos, put posters on the street, establish VOLUNTARY camps infringes upon, if not destroys, their right to expression and speech as they see fit. When atheistic speech was seen as Communist and ungodly, and was for all intensive purposes banned, the ACLU and other constitutionalist groups went after the laws that banned it, and eventually they were declared unconstitutional and brought down. The state cannot infringe upon free speech. Any law to that effect is a direct violation of freedom of speech and therefore UNCONSTITUTIONAL. The Constitution is the final say in the United States of America, and it is quite clear.

All speech, annoying, prejudicial, racist, whatever we classify it as, is protected. There is no middle ground. I can say whatever I believe wherever, however, whenever I want at my own risk. Period.
Debate Round No. 2
AdamCW12

Pro

Well my Friend I wold like to say that your first 2 paragraphs look to what we are debating about today weather or not they are bad for America now I am saying something SHOULD be done, but not imparitive you have to see everyone will agree with me and vote me up cause i show how they are bad for America Fred Phelps notthing has ever been done to him by the FBI or anyother governmental organizataion. The atrocitys he has commited are actually him standing outside of funerals with the followers of his "church"(and i use that term loosly) and actually protest our dead soldiers as well as gay people. Yes they protest there funerals and shout at them mainly "god hates you" so sir you have misconstrued the debate these people are bad for America.

1. They Harm our youth look to Jesus Camp mentioned several time.

2. They harm our image in the world.

3. For every other argument look to my past speeches.

So you have essentially lost the debate because you misconstrue everything.
Demosthenes

Con

What debate are you watching? You've only won the "I can't spell" debate.

You have consistently failed to prove how these people are bad for America and why protesting and the like are BAD FOR A COUNTRY OF FREE IDEAS!!!

You can say "I've proven they're bad for America" as many times as you like but until you actually do it it won't make any difference.

Let me address each of your "arguments" one at a time.

Post #2 - "Phelps protested against soldiers and gay people." While I am saddened that a group of people would choose not to be as open and tolerant as some of our more enlightened citizens, that does NOT mean that you have discretion to label them bad for America. Would you label the hippies who were spitting at Vietnam veterans bad for America too? They were labeled bad by the mainstream at the time as well. Expressing one's free speech IS NO VICE.

Post #3 - "Nothing has ever been done to Fred Phelps." Did you know that Fred Phelps was threatened with disbarrment and various other punishments for his work for African-Americans during the civil rights movement? Did you know that a firm he founded was responsible for 1/3 of the federal civil rights cases in Kansas? This is obviously a bad man. Fred Phelps received awards from the Greater Kansas City Chapter of Blacks in Government and the Bonner Springs branch of the NAACP for his work on behalf of black clients. Yep, he is TRUE evil.

I'll address your other little snippets at the bottom as well, though I believe I've already won.

1. "They harm our youth." I think it is foolhardy to believe that these... 71 people are the greatest threat to our youth today. Surely they do not outweigh drugs, guns, or Islamic extremists.

2. "They harm our image." Oh dear, because IMAGE is the most important thing worldwide. Certainly not our ridiculous national debt, or the fact that we have 225,000 troops overseas fighting in a war we should never have started. Our image is bad enough already. These, let me note again, 71 people, are not having the same detrimental effect as invading sovereign nations for weapons they don't have.

71 people with opinions you don't like are NOT bad for a free society, are NOT harming our image in an irreparable way, and Fred Phelps, while you may not appreciate some of his stances, the NAACP, which I would love to hear you call bad for America, thinks he is a force for good. I think I've proven my points, and I think that if anyone is bad for America it is people like you who want to nibble at the flanks of free speech until it is nothing more than politically correct doubletalk.

The 1st Amendment is absolute. Any infringements upon it are without a doubt WORSE FOR AMERICA than any group that uses it to state messages you would like to ignore. I ask again, if you can beat that point, I will applaud you.

I've clearly won this debate, and your claim that I am misconstruing everything only shows how misshapen your view of the world is.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
I didn't say they aren't bad for America , if I could put her and her whole church on a ship set to sail to the middle of nowhere I would , I just said they are not true Christians if they spew their hatred and they call themselves Baptists but are not actually part of the Baptist church.
Posted by AdamCW12 9 years ago
AdamCW12
Well you all make since be yes kels they are bad for America just read my argument.
Posted by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
The website you are talking about is Phelps ..she is hardly a Christian. You can call yourself a Christian and that doesn't make you one. I don't hate many people but I hate that family..They call themselves baptist , but are not actually part of the Baptist religion. They are really a cult , that he started and now his daughter who is a lawyer runs. Out of the 80 people or so in the church only about 15 are not part of the Phelps family. They are seriously a bunch of whack jobs. I can't stand them and they honestly are not Christians , if you read their web page and what they do , they truly are some sick cult. They hate America , gay people and soldiers. They go to funerals of gay people and the funerals of soldiers and scream out profanity. Unfortunately I think there are sick people that claim to be all religions and sick people that claim to be atheist ... but like I said you can call yourself something but it doesn't mean thats what you are. For example I can call a horse a duck , but its not a duck.
Posted by Advidoct 9 years ago
Advidoct
Dude...I cant wait to see the Cons argument.

I agree with you 100%.
Intolerance and Discrimination are scars on American society and the only reason they are still so visible is because Radical Religion decides God cant love Gays or other minorities that these religions persecute.

God Loves All!!!

I just love how intolerant and discriminatory evangelicals (notice i did not say ALL evangelicals) talk about how barabaric and intolerant Islam is when much of Islam is far more tolerant than they are. I put radical evangelicals right up there with radical islam. Radical Islam destroys buildings. Radical Evangelicalism tears apart american society, not to mention twists and ignores the words of christ.
Posted by zibeltor 9 years ago
zibeltor
I wish I could just be the contender as say a protest against the resolution. How could the Con ever hope to win on a rational level? It's like "Prove that bad things are good." I mean, as a Christian I find individuals like those from Jesus Camp very insulting, more so because they paint a horribly negative picture across all of Christianity. (Tell someone you dig Jesus' message and they feel as if they need to keep the stones away from you.)
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Fuond it on youtube. God that was hillarious.
Posted by Harlan 9 years ago
Harlan
Tell me who's in the house? J.C.
Jesus Christ is in the house today

No way! I just watched that too. What a coincedemce. That was hillarious
Posted by AdamCW12 9 years ago
AdamCW12
I completly agree with you there but both of these orginizations are very adament about wht they belive and it really does disturb me. I feel I need m ore education on this to.
Posted by sethgecko13 9 years ago
sethgecko13
I'm not a Christian or I'd take you up on the challenge. I actually think that fundamentalist Evangelicals are great; they've totally destroyed the Republican party and turned the American public off from conservatism. Their strident, vitriolic dialog has hastened a change in public sentiment for equal rights for the GLBT community.
12 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by FemaleGamer 8 years ago
FemaleGamer
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Agreed with after the debate:Vote Checkmark--0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:70 
Vote Placed by s0m31john 8 years ago
s0m31john
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:-Vote Checkmark-2 points
Total points awarded:07 
Vote Placed by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by senorsavas 9 years ago
senorsavas
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by JDWeirich 9 years ago
JDWeirich
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by AdamCW12 9 years ago
AdamCW12
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by kels1123 9 years ago
kels1123
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03 
Vote Placed by aaltobartok 9 years ago
aaltobartok
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by johnwooding1 9 years ago
johnwooding1
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:30 
Vote Placed by azrael777 9 years ago
azrael777
AdamCW12DemosthenesTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:03