The Instigator
TheLadyofTheInternet
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Keiichi
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points

Raising Genderless Children

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/26/2014 Category: People
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,758 times Debate No: 44625
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (9)
Votes (0)

 

TheLadyofTheInternet

Con

Info on raising Genderless Children: Is to raise a child to a certain age without any gender (giving them dresses if they are boys trucks if they are girls) then to allow them to choose or keep being genderless.

This is a very hard subject to debate over but it's one I'm against. Look the world is not a very nice place it's quite horrid actually and I get it you wan't your kid to grow up without the chains that are gender well here's the truth your kids will be tortured and bullied. It's one thing to be gay and they also get severely bullied and that has led to suicide but they also often have there own gender and we as a society try and stop bad things from happening to them but I have noticed loads of sugarcoating in todays news with the LGBT community they still do suffer ALOT. I also think you're causing more problems then stopping them look every child is born with a gender EVERYONE a gender is not a bad thing it's something that you identify with. Letting your child choose there gender isn't as simple as letting them pick a toy. It will cause alot of confusion with themselves why, not everybody is born into the wrong gender and it is a rare occurrence and when it does happen I do feel that having that person gender changed to the one they feel is them is a good move if they want it to happen. How do they know what their gender is they are raised boys or girls and realize this isn't them and that it's extremely horrible to be this way and I do feel for them but please don't give children who don't suffer this problem the actual problem. Also something else people don't realize is that boys and girls are actually mentally different and does show in an early age think about it we have had gender identities for thousands of years how do you think they started I really don't believe some guy thought it would be a good idea then just everybody went along with it. Look boys are not forced to play with trucks they want to because how their brains work differs from that of a girl I remember being a child and choosing the doll to play with not because society wanted me to but I wanted to. Another argument is one I grew up with and that is boy and girl twins (I have a twin brother) as a twin you share everything that is including toys my brother would go for the trucks I'd go for the dolls even though we never only had one choice we had many. To bring up an earlier issue children will get bullied it's sad but it's true you make your son go to school in a dress he is going to have a bad time and bullying can lead to worse things including suicide if it gets to out of hand. But then what is this going to help with really think about it people who are raised with a gender turn out fine if there was a problem to begin with it will be discovered but to go to a saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
Keiichi

Pro

I fully understand your points and can see and appreciate the validity and thought put into them, but as someone with a plethora of actual hardening experience in the matter, I do have to fully disagree with the majority of said opinion. I would very much appreciate the chance to refute these points and would appreciate well-thought criticism from your side on any clashing views that I bring up. Thank you, and I look forward to a civil, clean debate.

Firstly, you state the importance of shielding your child from bullying. I, as most children in this day and age grew up with harsh bullying, and plenty of it. That said, I do not think that it was a moot cause. Anyone and everyone *will* be bullied and ostracized to some extent at any point of their life. While I do not think that this will or even can ever be stopped, I do strongly believe that it is the parent's responsibility and fault if their child becomes a bully. While children are in fact born with a gender that may or may not differ from their physical gender, they are not born with the knowledge or ability to stigmatize other children from social groups and situations. Instead of seeing it as our responsibility to shield our children from evil, which tends to hurt them and their development, we should teach our children the right values while encouraging others to do the same. If our children come to us and are brave enough to let us know that they, or children they know are being bullied, we should, as responsible adults, do something other than punish the innocent children to remedy the situation.

I would also like to take this opportunity to bring to light a certain study:
Sometime in the sixties, a 'David Reimer' was born. As it appeared, a healthy male.
He was, without consent or knowledge, sexually reassigned and raised as a female after his traditionally male genitals were destroyed during an infantile circumcision. This case was overlooked by a psychologist as a study to try and confirm and force the view that gender identity is a social construct, and not something you are born with. It was reported as a success at first, but then reported that David had not identified female since the age of 9. He had soon made the transition to living as a full-time male at 15. The story was made public by David and his family- to speak against forced gender identity and sexual reassignment. David later committed suicide after his life had gone far downhill from gender dysphoria, depression, and other things stemming from his forced gender assignment. I felt that this story holds relevance to the current debate because you are on the side that is against letting a child decide their own gender. 'Forcing' a certain gender upon a potentially unwilling child is a practice that has hurt and caused the premature death of many intersex people.

Secondly, you say that letting a child 'choose' a gender will confuse them. May I have a source of this information? In my experience, the opposite has been universally true. Most children, teenagers, and young adults that have been psychologically evaluated and approved for intersex/transgender corrective surgery, as well as those who have undergone full transition to the gender that they feel is correct, have known of their preferred gender since prepubertal ages. Some as young as three to seven years of age have been reported as having a strong alignment, identity, or preference to the gender opposite of those assigned at their births. It is also an unfortunate, but very common occurrence for those who do not get gender affirming treatment to hurt themselves, display depressed or suicidal tendencies, and even commit suicide. This occurrence has an approximate range of 41% of the gender variant community by the age of eighteen, but is estimated to be a larger amount. They know what their gender is, because as I have explained and provided studies for, it is a chemical wiring that they are born with and most children will become aware of at a very young age. Raising a child as gender neutral will not hurt them, but instead allow for them to make their own choices and in turn be more in tune with themselves and can prevent a large amount of confusion and suicides in later years.

I am not going to touch on the subject of gender binary toys, marriage, and clothing, because it is a view that has been tirelessly disproved, and for a long time now has not even been commonplace to enforce among children or even adults.
Please try to keep the topic of gender expression (not to be confused with gender identity) out of the argument unless specifically relevant. Lastly, please provide as much factual commentary and relevant information (and please refrain from intentionally offensive bias and needless opinion/commentary) as possible and I will continue to do the same. I look forward to new information and your well-constructed rebuttal and/or changed views, if any.
Debate Round No. 1
TheLadyofTheInternet

Con

Info on raising Genderless Children: Is to raise a child to a certain age without any gender (giving them dresses if they are boys trucks if they are girls) then to allow them to choose or keep being genderless.

This is a very hard subject to debate over but it's one I'm against. Look the world is not a very nice place it's quite horrid actually and I get it you wan't your kid to grow up without the chains that are gender well here's the truth your kids will be tortured and bullied. It's one thing to be gay and they also get severely bullied and that has led to suicide but they also often have there own gender and we as a society try and stop bad things from happening to them but I have noticed loads of sugarcoating in todays news with the LGBT community they still do suffer ALOT. I also think you're causing more problems then stopping them look every child is born with a gender EVERYONE a gender is not a bad thing it's something that you identify with. Letting your child choose there gender isn't as simple as letting them pick a toy. It will cause alot of confusion with themselves why, not everybody is born into the wrong gender and it is a rare occurrence and when it does happen I do feel that having that person gender changed to the one they feel is them is a good move if they want it to happen. How do they know what their gender is they are raised boys or girls and realize this isn't them and that it's extremely horrible to be this way and I do feel for them but please don't give children who don't suffer this problem the actual problem. Also something else people don't realize is that boys and girls are actually mentally different and does show in an early age think about it we have had gender identities for thousands of years how do you think they started I really don't believe some guy thought it would be a good idea then just everybody went along with it. Look boys are not forced to play with trucks they want to because how their brains work differs from that of a girl I remember being a child and choosing the doll to play with not because society wanted me to but I wanted to. Another argument is one I grew up with and that is boy and girl twins (I have a twin brother) as a twin you share everything that is including toys my brother would go for the trucks I'd go for the dolls even though we never only had one choice we had many. To bring up an earlier issue children will get bullied it's sad but it's true you make your son go to school in a dress he is going to have a bad time and bullying can lead to worse things including suicide if it gets to out of hand. But then what is this going to help with really think about it people who are raised with a gender turn out fine if there was a problem to begin with it will be discovered but to go to a saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
Keiichi

Pro

Keiichi forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
TheLadyofTheInternet

Con

TheLadyofTheInternet forfeited this round.
Keiichi

Pro

Keiichi forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
9 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 9 records.
Posted by TheLadyofTheInternet 3 years ago
TheLadyofTheInternet
I have made a huge mistake and accidentally submitted the round with my first round is there anyway this can be fixed.
Posted by TheSquirrel 3 years ago
TheSquirrel
alexlazar 2 wrote:
"You are confusing raising your children "genderless" with raising them as "transsexuals". The point of what you call "raising genderless" is not to force your boy to wear a dress or forcing your girl to play with a truck if they don't want to. The real point is to steer clear of gender stereotypes."

THE REAL POINT IS TO STEER CLEAR OF GENDER STEREOTYPES.
Gender is a societal normative category. Except in the singular case of biology in which gender explains much, society has taken gender to mean much more than it does and attached too much importance to the stereotypes it created.
Posted by fazz 3 years ago
fazz
Yes. @DJ, most definitely he is correct "gender is genetic" and so on. But I don't think scientists have sat around experimenting with it.. [i]for as long as he has "claimed"[/i]. Gender as categorised under science is still grey area.
Posted by JonathanDJ 3 years ago
JonathanDJ
Since when do I have to use sources to back up fundamental human anatomy and physiology?
Posted by MasterDebater2 3 years ago
MasterDebater2
Use sources to back up your points.
Posted by JonathanDJ 3 years ago
JonathanDJ
I think Smithereens is largely correct; I wouldn't state it the same way though. When someone says "Genes determine this or that" the same sex attracted crowd jumps in and says their proclivities are genetically determined. Which has not been proven according the American Psychiatric Association. I would say gender is based in biology. It is based in body parts and hormones. It is a part of our animal selves.
Posted by alexlazar 3 years ago
alexlazar
You are confusing raising your children "genderless" with raising them as "transsexuals". The point of what you call "raising genderless" is not to force your boy to wear a dress or forcing your girl to play with a truck if they don't want to. The real point is to steer clear of gender stereotypes.

As a boy I would like now to be able to cook or dance (things that are seen as girl-like) and I would like my daughter to be able to fix her own bike or do other boy-like technical stuff. The point is to expose your children to all possibilities and allow them to chose.

One more thing: you are under the impression that raising your children in a specific way will influence their sexual orientation. Try to focus less on sexual orientation and more on allowing your children to cross gender stereotypes when picking hobbies, toys, thinking about their future jobs etc.
Posted by fazz 3 years ago
fazz
Debunked says who?
Posted by Smithereens 3 years ago
Smithereens
Belief that gender can be determined or influenced by environment has been thoroughly debunked by scientific experiments. Gender is one of the few things that is completely genetic, from the way the person looks, to the way they think and behave.
No votes have been placed for this debate.