The Instigator
joesiler
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
imabench
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points

Raising Minimum Wage

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 2 votes the winner is...
imabench
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/29/2013 Category: Politics
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,856 times Debate No: 37145
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (2)

 

joesiler

Con

With minimum wage workers on strike across the country to raise the minimum wage, I am arguing against raising minimum wage as I do not believe it will help the impoverished. First round will be acceptance only.
imabench

Pro

I accept

State your case
Debate Round No. 1
joesiler

Con

While at first instinct it is easy to think: People who are in poverty work at a minimum wage. Raising the minimum wage will help those in poverty because each minimum wage worker will get a pay increase and be able to rise above the poverty line. However, there are many unintended consequences of raising the minimum wage and facts clearly show that it is ineffective at helping the impoverished.
The generic case against the minimum wage being raised is simple. A higher wage makes it more expensive to hire workers; therefore they hire fewer people leaving the poor with fewer jobs. While that will be the main point of my argument, there are a few more elements involved such as: raising minimum wage doesn't affect some who are in poverty and much more effective methods of helping the impoverished.

There is plenty of debate on how much of an effect raising the minimum wage actually has on the market, but no one argues that increasing the minimum wage increases the number of unemployed workers who find jobs. In the end, the trade-off is clear. People who keep their jobs get more money; those who lose their jobs, or fail to get new ones, suffer.

According to recent research by Richard V. Burkhauser and Joseph J. Sabia if federal minimum wage were increased from $7.25 an hour to $9.50 an hour, only 11.3% of workers who would gain from the increase belong to poor households. [1]

Many who live in poverty do not work or are the secondary providers for their households. Also, young people who live with they're parents make up a large portion of those making minimum wage. Data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics show that while workers under age 25 make up only about 20% of those who earn hourly wages, they constitute about half of all workers earning the minimum wage or less. Raising the minimum wage is therefore an ineffective anti-poverty proposal.

One of the more effective methods to helping those in poverty is a tax credit for those in poverty. A tax credit is less politically palatable because it takes money directly out of federal coffers, while the minimum wage can be raised without it showing up directly on the government's books.[2]

A great example of what would happen if the minimum wage was raised is my very own workplace. I work at a golf course with about 10 other people. I make minimum wage along with 8 of the others. My manager makes $23.60 an hour and my assistant manager makes $17.35. I know this because last week I saw each of their checks. If all of a sudden they had to pay the eight of us 15 dollars an hour (which is what they are asking for minimum wage to be raised to here in Seattle) my boss would not be able to afford to pay himself anything or have money for renovations. At least four of us would have to be fired and our entire business would probably go under because there would not be enough people working to keep the business afloat. That would result in 10 lost jobs and 8 of us who are already making minimum wage now making nothing and would push us farther into poverty not help us at all. Plenty of small businesses across the country would go under. The only businesses in which this standard of would work is in your stereotypical big business which suppresses its workers while the boss sits on a golden throne making 1000 times what his/her employers make which happens quite a lot less than you might think.

[1] http://epionline.org...
[2] http://www.irs.gov...
imabench

Pro

"In the end, the trade-off is clear. People who keep their jobs get more money; those who lose their jobs, or fail to get new ones, suffer."

Pretty much.




"According to recent research by Richard V. Burkhauser and Joseph J. Sabia if federal minimum wage were increased from $7.25 an hour to $9.50 an hour, only 11.3% of workers who would gain from the increase belong to poor households. [1]"

So raising the minimum wage doesnt just help out the poor, it helps out everyone. Got it.




"Raising the minimum wage is therefore an ineffective anti-poverty proposal."

But raising the minimum wage benefits more then just those living in poverty as you said earlier. It helps lower, middle, and in some cases even upper classes alike... It still helps those 11.3% of people who do live in poor households as well, and not many other economic moves/forces can potentially reduce poverty by 11.3%




"One of the more effective methods to helping those in poverty is a tax credit for those in poverty"

They also have to be paid by the federal government with money it clearly doesnt have, whereas the minimum wage doesnt cost them nearly as much.... While tax credits do help the poor, that doesnt deny that the minimum wage still has its benefits and overall can be a net positive if used correctly.




"A great example of what would happen if the minimum wage was raised is my very own workplace...... (30 minutes later)... Plenty of small businesses across the country would go under. "

Most minimum wage jobs though ARE owned by big service industry giants like McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, etc. In fact of the 3.8 million people who work on the minimum wage in the US, well over half of them work in service industries that are primarily food services, namely restaurants and fast-food chains.
http://www.bls.gov...

That means that raising the minimum wage would primarily effect workers who work for companies that make millions, even billions of dollars a year... Companies that could afford to take a hit like that and still operate business as usual without a tremendous loss of jobs that were poorly paid anyways.

In addition to the 50% who work on the minimum wage in the food service industry, another 30% who work on the minimum wage work for retail stores such as Macy's, JCPenny, Walmart, Target, etc who also make millions a year and could more then afford to pay increased wages without being driven into bankruptcy.
http://www.bls.gov...

==========================================================================================

Yes, raising the minimum wage costs job, no one in their right mind will dispute that. But a majority of people who do work minimum wage work for corporate giants who can afford to pay out increased wages without being driven into ruin, and raising the minimum wage helps more then just those living in poverty, it helps the lower and middle class alike.

There is also one last argument for raising the minimum wage: curbing inflation
http://www.financialramblings.com...

Inflation has chewed away at the buying power of the dollar so much, that the $7.25 minimum wage today is the market equivalent of making $1.25 back in 1956......

So lets look at 2 scenarios:

If the minimum wage stays at its current level and inflation continues to grow, then the buying power of the dollar will only decrease over time and cause more people who do work minimum wage to fall into poverty or deeper into poverty. There arent enough tax credits in the world to counter such prospects, especially since those come right out of the federal budget which has a problem with not being balanced. So people go into/deeper into poverty, and the government spends a sh*tload of money it doesnt have to help these people get out of it assuming it chooses to, when it easily could decide not to. Thats what we end up with if we dont raise the minimum wage by just a smidge.

On the other hand, if we DO raise the minimum wage it helps out both lower and middle class families, it helps a considerable number of people who are living in poverty get out of poverty (depending on how much it is raised by), and most of these minimum wage jobs are jobs that are owned by massive companies that could afford to pay for such wages without being driven into bankruptcy while other non-retail and non-service sector business do take a bit of a hit.

The minimum wage will cause some jobs to be lost yes, but jobs can be added and created just by having a healthy economy and letting the free market be free. What cant be curbed naturally is poverty and inflation, which are the two main things that a raise on the minimum wage can impact the most.

That is why I feel the minimum wage should be raised at some point in the future by a reasonable amount.
Debate Round No. 2
joesiler

Con

joesiler forfeited this round.
imabench

Pro

This is why I dont like to debate seriously. Everyone always forfeits....
Debate Round No. 3
joesiler

Con

joesiler forfeited this round.
imabench

Pro

christ.....
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Hutch24 9 months ago
Hutch24
So from imabench's argument, he/she is obviously for large corporations, and does not care about small businesses, since large corporations are the only ones that can accomodate an increase in minimum wage and not go under. Any small business that is already open, or just trying to start up, and is the type of business to hire minimum wage employees, is right out of luck since they can't afford to pay such a high wage for a non-skilled employee. This is just another way for large corperations to take even more control of the market, and keep competition down.
Posted by joesiler 1 year ago
joesiler
First I would like to thank imabench for accepting my argument.
But @alevan don't act this the argument on minimum wage is completely one-sided when people are currently debating this in politics right now. Every argument has two side and I'd appreciate if alevan would keep an open mind and at least hear my argument out before trying to prematurely declare a winner when the argument hasn't even started yet.
Posted by alevan 1 year ago
alevan
The con has lost this debate before its even started. A raise in minimum wage is obviously needed in this country and it doesn't raise the price of goods and services in the country mor does it lower the international value of our dollar but rather we are just paying people more money and some people work 60 hour weeks on minimum wage(that doesn't even make 30,000 dollars annually) I expect this to be an easy win for the Pro
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by donald.keller 1 year ago
donald.keller
joesilerimabenchTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: I agree with Con, but he didn't make a very solid case for his position. Conduct: Con FF'd his last 2 fights. S&G: Con and Pro's spelling was even, and "technically" grammar wasn't an issue... But it was. Con's argument was not a easy-read. His writing could have been better. Sources: Both sides sourced themselves. Both used around the same amount relative to the amount of text. Convincing Argument: There were a lot of arguments Con could have given, but didn't. Pro refuted everything and Con gave up, so Pro's arguments went uncontested.
Vote Placed by Ragnar 1 year ago
Ragnar
joesilerimabenchTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: FF