The Instigator
Speechee111807
Pro (for)
Losing
23 Points
The Contender
DebateFever
Con (against)
Winning
36 Points

Raising the Driving Age to 21

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/15/2009 Category: Society
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 12,505 times Debate No: 7852
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (12)
Votes (10)

 

Speechee111807

Pro

"Never lend your car to anyone to whom you have given birth." - Erma Bombeck
Because I strongly agree with Erma Bombeck, I am in the strong affirmation in the resolution. My three contentions being (1) Peer Pressure (2) Status Quo and (3) Maturity/Responsibility
DebateFever

Con

A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense. ~American Proverb

Peer pressure will not be solved by raising the driving age because then the pressure will be to drive illegally. If you had to wait 3 extra years after high school to be able to drive then the trip to the corner market will seem all the more appealing. And when you have friends over at your house and you are all being dumb, then no one will want to ask their Mom or Dad to drive them because that is just uncool. Therefore the pressure will actually be on driving illegally.
Debate Round No. 1
Speechee111807

Pro

I will point out that your quote seems to be contradicting in the way that, if a tree is "defending" itself, it's because of out of control driving.
I will now go over my contentions to prove my case

(1) Contention - Peer Pressure. In shows like My Super Sweet Sixteen, we see teens who did NOT get their permits because they failed yet, they get a new car. This pressure many into getting a car too. First thing many teens do (without bad intentions) is that they will show off their permits for everyone to see and those who don't have one, will want to get one too. At sixteen you may be able to get your permit, but it is not until you are 18 that you can get your license, thus changing the driving age to 21 will not be such a dramatic change. Peer pressure really effects other students because some don't really pay attention to getting their permits until others point it out.

(2) Contention - Status Quo. In many places such as Mexico, Germany, and/or France people hardly use a car. Instead you will see people walking, taking their bike, or another type of transportation. Walking is exercise and exercise is very important to everyone's health. On beautiful sunny days, people can take a bike to wherever they are going and if it's too far, the bus has a place in the front where you can place your bike. To get to school, there's both a school bus and a public bus. Not owning a car will actually be economically beneficial. Without a car you will not have to worry about paying insurance in these hard economic time.

(3) Contention - Maturity/Responsibility. Having their teenage daughter or son out in the highway, is every parent's concern. Maturity has a lot to do with today's young drivers. 16 year old drivers crash at a higher rate than those that are older. Scientist say it is not until the age of 25 that one will be mature. The National Institutes of health have shown how the brain of a teenager has a weak link that weighs risks, makes judgements, and controls impulsive behavior. This is means the teenagers brain is not mature enough to handle the responsibility that comes with driving. Just like in the Allstate commercials where the man is speaking and you can see a family having dinner, kids playing in a playground, and other families. Those are the families teenagers will be effecting with their careless driving. In 2003, there were 937 drivers age 16 who were involved in fatal crashes. In those wrecks, 411 of the 16 year olds drivers died and 352 of their passengers where killed. 16 year old drivers are involved in fatal crashes at a rate nearly 5 times of drivers 20 and older. When a teenager is travelling 15 to 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, the part of his or her brain that processes a thrill is working brilliantly, but the part that warns of negative consequences? Is all but useless.
For the safety of our young drivers and to avoid the lose of a young loved one, I urge a strong vote on the affirmation of the resolution.
DebateFever

Con

(1) First You don't need a car to drive, and if you don't get your license until you are 21 then if you did get a car for your 16th birthday, it would sit there for 5 long years before you could drive it thus making it an older car that is not as efficient as the current cars are. Plus I need to point out an error in your facts. In the state of Oregon you can apply for your learners permit, and you take a knowledge test that you must pass. And to apply for your drivers license you must have either taken drivers education, or have 100 hours of driving experience.

(2) Oregon is one of the greenest states in the US, we have many projects to help with preserving the economy. We have a strong railroad system as well as TriMet. Portland had recently been ranked one of the best paces to go biking in all of Oregon. This shows that we care about conserving our environment, one way that we do this is by regularly having "Bike to work day" or "Public transportation day." Japan is the leading car manufacture in the world, yet most people there do not drive. The driving age there is 18 years old, but most people don't even own a car. This is because of the far superior public transportation system. If our public transportation system were to be improved less people would drive. But as you get further outside of the city, The transportation becomes less available. Some people have to get driven to school because they live too far for the buses to go. So if the parents are not available then they might miss out on their education. If these same kids could get their license at 16 then the parents would not need to drive their children to school, just to turn around to go to work.

(3) Although most teenage drivers are so nervous about crashing that they start becoming over cautious, which also is not safe, but "mature" drivers often get over confident and driving becomes a habit that they don't think about. Many teens involving teenage drivers also involve a "mature" driver. When the "mature" driver puts them in a situation that they are unfamiliar with, so they freak out and end up crashing.

(4) Crashes are not the only unsafe thing happening. Less then half of the speeding tickets, and "fender benders" involve teenage drivers. The rest involve the said more "mature" drivers. Speeding increases the likelihood of an accident. Even most small accidents are caused by people that are over confident or not paying attention.

So that your teenage drivers are not always breaking the law, or bugging you for a ride, or missing out on their education, please vote in opposition of this resolution.
Debate Round No. 2
Speechee111807

Pro

Seeing as this is the last time I will speak to defend my case, I will start of by thanking my opponent for accepting this challange, going over my contentions and lastly refuting what the opponent has said.
(1) My first contention is talking about the peer preasure. At our high school, the day before Prom we had an assembly showing the students the negativity that can come from peer preasure. It started by showing 3 girls who were drunk and the guy in the scene did not want to give them the keys, but they insisted! So he did. As the assembly went on, we later saw how the cars were crashed for drinking and driving and although they were all injured (including the ones from the other car) the one that died was the guy who didn't drink! Later, his mom showed up and so did alot of the police and so on. The school spent a lot of money on this to tell our students to be safe, but at the assembly, many students were laughing. This shows how many don't care!
(2) My second contention was about the status quo. In Germany you will find that many don't even own a car! Why? because they would rather walk or take public transportation. What about here in Oregon? Here in Oregon you take a walk aroun a neighborhood and you will see most of the houses with even more than one car! In France, it's the same thing. In france people go out for walks more than they drive. In many places in Mexico, people are too poor to even buy food. They don't have cars there. People walk and when they walk it's long distance! When going to Mexico, you will never find someone who is obese. Seeing how in Oregon there's a lot of fast food places, it is best that people walk more than take their car. Cars are also bad for the environment. The opponent can say that there's "environmentally healthy" cars, but how many people use them? Not even half of them. I know we're not Mexico, Germany, or France. I am just simply showing what other countries do and what we can do too.
(3) My third contention is about responsibily. Many can say that not every teen is irresposible, but there's rules for a reason. Responsibilty has a lot to do with driving. Let's say 17 year old is having fun after a basketball game and is racing with another teenager, each in their own car. Both chasing eachother. What seemed as catious fun ended in tragedy. One of them is now dead and three are injured in the hospital. Why did this happen? Because they were not being responsible. By simply not paying attention to the road, you can crash. It's very important that you are responsible when driving because this is not going to effect you and your family, but someone else and their family too. It is much better to be safe than sorry and for wanting to be cool around your friends, many teenagers will not act responsibly and/or safe.
Onto what my opponents has said.
My opponent states that if you get a car at 16 it will be old when you turn 21. Although that may be true, it should be obvious for the future owner of any car that if the driving age is 21 why bother buying a car at 16? The car should not be bought at 16 to be left in the garage. That's why you would buy it when you turn 21. For those who plan on having a sweet sixteen, you can still get a car, you just won't drive it. Think of it as having a cheaffeur. Just sit back and enjoy the view. You can roll the window down so people still see you in your amazing new 6 door Hummer or whatever fancy car you decide to get. If the driving age was 21, you won't have to worry about being the only 16 year old who can't drive because others won't either.
The opponent also states that there is a "Bike to work day". That may be true, but how many people actually do that? Unfortunately not many. That is why increasing the driving age will put less people in the road. Less people on the road will actually benefit our environment as the opponents say. Seeing how the opponent states that the environment is very important, then the opponent must agree that having less people drive will benefit our environment thus agreeing with the affirmation.
The opponent also states that if the driver is too cautious, the driver is not being safe?!? Safety is always first and when the driver is being cautious, the driver will be aware of their surrounding and avoid a crash and/or accident. As the opponent states that a mature driver will often get over confident. I strongly disagree. It does not make sense that a mature driver will get over confident and crash. Being mature is being fully develop in mind the way a 22 year old can be. Saying a mature driver is likely to get in a crash is like saying a smart student is going to fail a test. Situations such as the opponent has stated are just not likely at all.
Also, the quote " A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense " is another way that shows the negativity and dangers to young drivers. The only reason a tree should defend themselves is from a teenage driver who is not yet resposible enough to drive. A young life is important and raising the driving age to 21 can decrease the deaths in young teenage drivers. Think about the worried parents waiting for their teenager to get home.
Seeing how the opponent has failed to state an alternative or give their three main contentions and also contradicting themselves and agreeing with the affirmation. I continue to urge a strong vote for the affirmation of the resolution. Thank you.
DebateFever

Con

I would Also like to thank my opponent for allowing me to debate with her. And I will Refute my opponent, then support my topics.
(1) As for the assembly, it was about drunk driving not just peer pressure. And so you know the school did not need to spend any money on the assembly because the community was so involved and decided to donate their time and services. For example the fire department used this as training so that they may act better in a real emergency. But that is beside the point. One reason that kids were laughing is because they don't want to show that they could be afraid, And some would trying to get others to quiet down by being loud themselves. But either way I truly believe that even if the people think that it didn't effect them. "1 small speck of dirt can grow until your entire mind is filled." Anonymous. Even if all you got was to not drink then it helped, but it would have been better if more people had seen it because it was a very powerful assembly.
(2) I apologize but I have yet to find how this is relevant to this topic because in most of those countries they have the option to get their license but chose not to, therefore the accident rate is lower not because of the driving age (which is 18) but because of the choices of the people.
(3) Your third point is a good point I must admit, if it were executed properly. Responsibility has less to do with driving, then driving has to do with responsibility. You do not need to drive to be responsible, but you need to be responsible to drive. Your family is in much more danger due to a drunk driver then a teenage one. When driving drunk, you lose 2 seconds off your reaction time. This is much more than the half a second or 1 second teens lose. Thus we should be focusing more on catching drunk drivers then teens. And you say that many teenagers will not act responsible or safe, but less than 30 percent of all teens ever get in an accident. That is much less then many.
Now to my points:
(1) Do you actually think about every step before you take it, no because then it would take you five minutes to go down the hallway. Driving is a lot the same. Yes you think some about it but if you take the time to think about every step and make sure you do it "right." Being over cautious is like becoming too confident in your mental abilities and not studying for a test. And then you fail because you didn't know what was on the test. In driving if you pay attention you are fine, but if you pay too much attention you over analyze.
And I ask you to please vote against this topic.
Debate Round No. 3
12 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by DebateFever 5 years ago
DebateFever
Thanks guys this is really really helpful.
Posted by Speechee111807 5 years ago
Speechee111807
You don't need a car to go to work Alex XD (just saying :D LoL)
Posted by Speechee111807 5 years ago
Speechee111807
Thank you for your comments it really does help :D I'll keep working on it XD
Posted by RoyLatham 5 years ago
RoyLatham
Both debaters have put a lot of thought into the issue, and I thought they did well for first-timers.

Arguments about generalities beg for statistics. Pro could cite the number of accidents by under-21 drivers claim that a majority could be prevented. The counter is that if driving were banned outright, we'd prevent even more, but our society has determined that the benefits outweigh the costs. The population density of the US make mass transit viable only in major cites, and the nature of our society makes it far more dependent on autos. In other countries, people don't need to travel far to work as subsistence farmers, but here there are genuine needs to get around.

I think Pro could make a good case for placing further restrictions on under-21 drivers, for example on the number of people in the car or better training requirements. But I think Con narrowly makes the case that America is too car-dependent for a ban.
Posted by DebateFever 5 years ago
DebateFever
It sure helps me, so thank you very much for help on m very first debate.
Posted by alto2osu 5 years ago
alto2osu
First of all, if you are going to use age as a brightline for issuing licenses, then you need to give better evidence then anecdotal analyses. Parents vs. friends and peer pressure are generally poor arguments. However, the fact that insurance companies universally correlate age and sex with premiums due to statistical evidence of higher accident rates is a solid warrant. Not only that, but fisher is right to a certain extent. While, statistically, age seems to have some sort of link to driving ability (though not a universal-- I'm a far better driver at 25 than my 45 year old father), there are many institutional arguments to be made. Try to be less colloquial and more concerned with far-reaching claims.

Also, don't forget impact analysis! In a resolution like this, what will I gain by affirming? What will I lose? Both of you will convince me better if you convince me that affirming or negating will actually do something. Paint an affirmative or negative world for me.

Hope that helps!
Posted by Alex 5 years ago
Alex
you can get a job at 15 but you shouldnt be able to drive for 5 more years? that in itself wins the debate for me.
Posted by DebateFever 5 years ago
DebateFever
See i told you that you are better at this than me.
Posted by Speechee111807 5 years ago
Speechee111807
Thanks. So studies have shown how a teenager is more likely to get in a crash and if you think about it Fisher, I believe the reason for this is because a teenager is going to want to be cool around their friends and if let's say Jacob is the one driving and he decides to pick up his friends to go to school and they don't want to wear their seatbelt, he's not going to say anything. Compared to an adult like mom or dad and they are the ones that pick up your friends (with you of-coarse) then they will say "put on your seatbelt" There's just a huge difference in responsiblity when comparing the different ages.
Posted by fisher 5 years ago
fisher
you need to focus more on the institutions giving the licenses and who they are allowing on the road. age should not matter, there is some 14 year old kids more mature then some 25 year old men. same goes with driving ability.
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