The Instigator
Adamant1
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
socialpinko
Con (against)
Winning
10 Points

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
socialpinko
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/3/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,342 times Debate No: 16279
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (34)
Votes (4)

 

Adamant1

Pro

The idea here is that the first non-opponent to comment after the opponent accepts posts the topic we debate upon. First Round is acceptance. I have wanted to do this for a while.
socialpinko

Con

So that I do not have one more round than my opponent I will let him make the opening arguments while I further research my position.

The resolution shall be:

Resolved: a narrative account of the self is preferable to a unitary account.

My opponent will take the Pro position and defend a narrative account as preferable to a unitary account. I as Con will defend a narrative account over a unitary account. I will allow my opponent to define the terms as I am too tired to do so right now.

Seeing as the first round was wasted, I will ask my opponent to challenge me to either a one or two round debate titled with the resolution with a part two after it so that we may finish this debate.

Good luck to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 1
Adamant1

Pro

I don't know much on this topic and since I'm a student in high school with AP exams next week I just don't have much time to do much research on it.

I will begin by laying out that this debate will be on, in the terms of a comment posted by my opponent, someone describing their own life verses someone else describing it.

I am going to argue that it is better for someone to describe their own life. Seeing as they are speaking of their own life they are better because: It was their life, this is better because they know more about it, and also they know what influenced them and what made them make certain decisions. A narrative account would have to male their own decisions and assumptions based upn what they know of the person which poses a significant chance of being incorrect.
socialpinko

Con

My opponent has defined the terms of the debate as:

Narrative account: An account of a person's life made by a casual observer.

Unitary account: An account of a person's life made by one's own self.

Preferable: One theory being a better (i.e. more accurate) explanation.

He has brought a few points to defend his position and I will list them and refute them below.

"they know more about it"

My opponent believes that just because someone is who they are they will automatically know more about themselves then anyone else. I will however list a few examples below that disprove this theory.

Examples of people who do not necessarily know more about their own life simply because it is their life.

-Infants
-Toddlers
-People who are mentally challenged
-People who are schizophrenic
-Others who exhibit psychotic symptoms

Who knows more about the life of an infant? It's mother or itself? Infant's minds are not anywhere near all the way developed. Their memories are still forming which makes it so that they forget many things instantaneously.

Or take the example of a paranoid schizophrenic who's entire view of life is misconstrued and might believe that a secret order of reptilians are controlling the world and are going to silence him for his knowledge of this. Obviously no such reptilians exist and only a crazy person would believe so but this schizophrenic cannot help it.

A casual observer who is free of mental diseases and is clear of mind would clearly know more about the poor schizophrenics life and know that there are no such reptilians.

Now let's move on to my opponent's last point.

"they know what influenced them and what made them make certain decisions"

It is not impossible to know what influenced a person to make a decision or think a certain way. In some instances a casual observer would be the only one to know what influenced another person.

Take for instance a child who plays all sorts of violent and gruesome video games and watches scary movies. This child then begins to exhibit violent tendencies at school and with his classmates. Does this child understand that he is acting out because he saw the same behavior in a video game? No. The child is not yet of a level of maturity to understand what influenced him. A casual observer though with a clear mind could easily make the connection.

To voters, vote for me because I have shown that in many instances, a casual observer would be able to see the connection between violent games and violent behavior or the fact that reptoids plotting to take over the world is completely ridiculous. A vote for Con is thus a vote for sanity and reason.
Debate Round No. 2
Adamant1

Pro

Well,

When we consider this as which is more accurate account of one's life we must assume that one is able to provide a unitary account of their life, this discounts infants and toddlers (who probably have no need for an account of their life regardless) and those with psychological problems since they are incapable of providing a unitary account it is narrative by default, this is not a judgement of which is better merely of which is available. This debate however is over which one is better.

Also even if a schizophrenic decided to provide an account of his/her life then they would be able to better describe their delusions than the casual observer could, since the casual observer only knows that the schizophrenic is shouting something about these reptilians invading the world.

As far as knowledge of influences, I will make the assumption that anyone worth having an account of their life made is mature enough to be cognizant of their influences. Sure, children are unaware of what influences them, but most adults should be able to recognize why they made a certain decision making them more accurate than the observer.
socialpinko

Con

Let's look at my opponent's points.

//"When we consider this as which is more accurate account of one's life we must assume that one is able to provide a unitary account of their life, this discounts infants and toddlers (who probably have no need for an account of their life regardless) and those with psychological problems since they are incapable of providing a unitary account it is narrative by default"//

I will agree with my opponent that one must be able to provide a unitary account before we can consider if it is accurate. So I will discount infants from my argument. Toddler who are old enough to speak, paranoid schizophrenics(As opposed to disorganized or catatonic schizophrenics) and people with lesser forms of mental retardations(such as Down syndrome) however are able to provide at least a rudimentary account of their life.

A toddler can tell you what she did today or a paranoid schizophrenic can tell you about their delusions of a reptilian secret order of controllers. So, toddlers(probably between the ages of 5 and 7), paranoid schizophrenics(with no other forms of schizophrenia) and people with lesser forms of mental retardations(Down syndrome) are able to provide an account of their life. We will look at my opponent's other points.

//"Also even if a schizophrenic decided to provide an account of his/her life then they would be able to better describe their delusions than the casual observer could"//

If my opponent and I were debating on who could provide a better account of one's inner thoughts then my opponent would have a point. However when arguing about an account of one's life we are debating on the objective reality of a person's life.

Ex. Who can better describe the first day of pre-school of a toddler? The teacher or the toddler?

We are not however debating who can describe one's innermost thoughts but objective events in a person's life.

//"As far as knowledge of influences, I will make the assumption that anyone worth having an account of their life made is mature enough to be cognizant of their influences."//

My opponent assumes wrong here. We did not agree on who was having an account of their life made, we have however agreed on what kind of person could create a unitary account of their life.

Based on who has the mental capacity to create a unitary account of their life we can conclude that toddlers are able to provide a unitary account of their life. It seems that my opponent agrees that toddlers are mostly unaware of their influences and that is why he has resorted to such an odd argument. So it follows that toddlers can make a unitary account of their life and are for the most part unaware of their influences. I await my opponent's response to this.

I await my opponent's response. :D
Vote Con
Debate Round No. 3
34 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
I would appreciate a link to this one in the OP of the next.
Posted by Adamant1 3 years ago
Adamant1
yes, so don't vote on this one, it would be unfair for the winner to in 2 debates wouldn't it?
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Is this being continued, as the last line asks for a response?
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Aamant1, no offense, but socialpinko is one of the nicer debaters on DDO. I would really suggest you get a thicker skin as some of the debaters can throw down kind of hard in debates and you need to be able to handle it or else you will get frustrated, not enjoy the debates, and tend to lose.
Posted by socialpinko 3 years ago
socialpinko
I look forward to Cliff's vote.
Posted by Adamant1 3 years ago
Adamant1
I understand this, I just don't like it so I was hoping that my opponent would be willing to work with me on this one.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Adamant1, it is really common in debates to speak to the audience, it is not generally regarded as misconduct.
Posted by Adamant1 3 years ago
Adamant1
Hey I don't appreciate the insult to my intelligence, also if I could ask you to refrain from including messages directly to voters in your arguments it really bothers me an I find it quite rude. Thanks.
Posted by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Have to respect your confidence, I am eager to read your reply.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 3 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
Adamant1socialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: 1 pt to Con for maintaining control,summarizing and presentation. 1 pt for pointing clear issues with the OP. 1 pt as Pro attempted to shift the resolution of debate instead of refuting the objection. 1 pt for general effort/research as it was obvious Con put a lot more into the debate than Pro.
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
Adamant1socialpinkoTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Major waste of time.
Vote Placed by Grape 3 years ago
Grape
Adamant1socialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not really have much of an argument and Con did a much better job of researching the topic and presenting logical points.
Vote Placed by wjmelements 3 years ago
wjmelements
Adamant1socialpinkoTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO neither met his burden of proof nor maintained a convincing argument. He was unable to limit the scope of the debate from children and schizophrenics. CON, however, presented a convincing argument that narrative accounts could not be trusted in certain cases, but not in general, so both sides did poorly, but PRO failed to meet his BOP.