The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
35 Points
The Contender
JustCallMeTarzan
Con (against)
Winning
178 Points

Randomness is a lack of Knowledge in both Spiritual and Physical world.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 5,750 times Debate No: 6433
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (176)
Votes (31)

 

GodSands

Pro

By not being able to have the knowledge of a great or a small deal of information is random. As information is knowledgeable, therefore by definition it would appear random, as you have no knowledge of the matter at hand.

If being scared is a fright of sudden randomness, not being able to understand something. Like in my very personal case not understanding the spiritual world is frightening as well as random. Example: Water into wine by Jesus Christ. This will seem random because of your lack of knowledge on the matter at hand. By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge, so with that in mind is the spiritual world not be anymore random than the physical world? As I believe that sin like Satan who hides from a sinner to prevent you knowing your spiritual side. As I believe we are both physical and spiritual beings. Hell is the place where your spirit dies, Heaven is where you spirit lives. Sin leads to a physical life style. Therefore believing in the spiritual world would almost be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general.
If say a animal such as a cat chases the light from a torch on a wall, it remains skeptical (study from a distance) of the torch.

As randomness can be implied to both the physical and the spiritual world. Like it would be physical to not understand the spiritual world, as spirits can act random to the physical world. On the other hand it would not be spiritual to understand the physical world. Example: To a spirit a brick wall seems random, as to the spirit can walk right through the brick wall. When to physical beings it is perfectly normal. Sin has grown normal to people who only believe only in the physical world. As through out the Bible Jesus tell you to "get to know" your spiritual side. "Do not price in treasure and riches in this life as it will be destroyed my moths and rust, but instead grow strong in your spirit so in heaven your treasures and riches with not be destroyed by moths and rust." As sin leads to physical attractions. Like Drinking, sex, murder, stealing etc...These things are impossible when you are a spirit. And a spirit will seem skeptical about these things. Earlier I wrote.

"Therefore believing in the spiritual world would be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general."

The devil is hidden so that you would not know of God. But only has lead you into a trap of believing that only the physical world exists, therefore do what you wish.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent uses an egregious misunderstanding as the basis of his argument. He asserts with no warrant or source that "By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge." However, this is simply incorrect. By definition, randomness is the state of being random, which in turn is:

Random (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
–adjective
1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers.
2. Statistics. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.

Nothing in this definition arises from lack of knowledge - for knowledge is (among other things):

Knowledge (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
–noun
1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.

As the reader can clearly see - a lack of acquaintance with facts, truths, etc... does not equate to a state of occurring or being made without aim or purpose.

***************************************

Some responses:

>> "If being scared is a fright of sudden randomness, not being able to understand something."

This makes no sense. All times you are scared is because you are afraid of sudden randomness?

>> "This will seem random because of your lack of knowledge on the matter at hand."

Assuming this actually happened, this would seem anything BUT random - there was clearly an intention in the action.

>> "By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge"

False.

>> "As randomness can be implied to both the physical and the spiritual world."

Well of course... duh. Unless you mean "applied," in which case, you cannot APPLY randomness - if you purposely apply it - it's not random.

>> "Like it would be physical to not understand the spiritual world, as spirits can act random to the physical world."

Again - doesn't make sense. One cannot ACT random. Actions can appear random to others, even though they're not. And since you've presented no scientific evidence for these spirits, I have no way of judging their actions or the merit of the theory.

>> "To a spirit a brick wall seems random, as to the spirit can walk right through the brick wall."

Again - makes no sense - a brick wall is clearly a constructed object and would not appear random except to some very unintelligent spirit.

>> ""Therefore believing in the spiritual world would be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general.""

Red herring - immaterial to the resolution.

>> "The devil is hidden so that you would not know of God. But only has lead you into a trap of believing that only the physical world exists, therefore do what you wish."

Red herring - immaterial to the resolution.

**************************************

Once again, GodSands has written a lot of nothing, beginning with a false premise and culminating in the notion that somehow, randomness, a concept applied to a situation where specific a priori knowledge is in principle impossible, amounts to a lack of knowledge. Randomness is not by any stretch of the imagination a lack of knowledge. Randomness is a lack of organization. It is possible to examine that lack of organization and glean knowledge about it, but the randomness itself is not a lack of knowledge.

My opponent will no doubt argue that the impossibility of gleaning knowledge counts as a lack of knowledge. However, consider that the knowledge is not impossible to get - it's merely impossible to get A PRIORI - which is exactly the same situation we find ourselves in with everything. A priori knowledge is impossible - as such, the argument that this constitutes lack of knowledge is nonsense.

I look forward to reading and deciphering my opponent's rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

As a child you believe in Santa Claus? Most children do. You enjoyed the fact that Santa was a cheerful man, who deserved to give gifts to your children. (If you are a parent you get no credit for Christmas when you have young children as Santa does all the work) You as a Child are born enjoying Christmas every year believe that Santa will come into your house (If Santa was to visit ever house in one night, He would have to spend a 1 millionth of a second at each house) Moving that fast is supernatural. Like the devil who hides, it would be impossible for the eye to see Santa as your eye can only see a maximum of a 20th of a second. So Santa is the devils way for bring in the children into the Physical world (mentioned in my other debate, "Randomness is a lack of knowledge in the Spiritual and Physical world")
As a Child the Devil acts like the child is in control by doing nothing on Christmas and the devil (now known to me as Santa) has the burden of running about after presents. When you Grow older you become the devils slave as you do not believe in Santa and therefore the devil anymore. Making your life style converted by physical not spiritual beliefs. And now as a adult with money "You can not serve two masters, money and God." is more avaible, again more involved in the physical world. So now the burden is on you to run into shops buying gifts you are now the devils slave who has seemed to have disappeared as quickly as Santa did.

The trap is hell and if you are still a sinner you will go there unless you trust in Jesus (spiritual) and confess you are a evil person in a physical world.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent's entire Round 2 argument is completely immaterial and in no way pertains to the resolution.

Although it is quite amusing.
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

I supose I win. And then all this includes macroevolution and gravity also lose out here as theay are Physical not Spiritual.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent's entire Round 3 argument is completely immaterial and in no way pertains to the resolution.

Although it is quite amusing.

*************************************

Again, GodSands has done nothing but spew nonsense that has no real value and only vaguely resembles a coherent train of thought, much less an argument.

Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
176 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 61 through 70 records.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
http://bl148w.blu148.mail.live.com... -- Better version.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
http://bl148w.blu148.mail.live.com... -- Or I could just send a link :) Derrr.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
Read the bottom part firstly.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
The Lord of the Flies is strikingly similar to what the Bible teaches. This is what it means to me. When the plane crashes at the start, it is like the fall of man. They came crawling out of the water on to land, like evolution stresses. However the boys did not form from the water, but were actually in the plane flying high above the clouds. Although evolution says the world is 4.6 billion years old, Jack (Satan) claims that the boys will not be saved, which concludes that nothing else matters now we are here. Just us, (boys) the water around them and the island. Nothing else matters. Like evolution suggests. So now in reality scientists are trying to find a solution of their existence while excluding the existence of God.

Jesus wasn't wanted, people found him to be a liar, a waste of time and although a lot of people listened to Jesus many hated him, at one point people tried to push Jesus off a cliff. – Relating this to Piggy. Although Piggy sounds annoying every time he speaks, people hate what Jesus has to say. They reject him and then ignore him. Like Jesus Piggy founded rules to follow and also claimed that they will be saved from the island. Like Jesus has said, who ever trust in him will have eternal life. On the beach they all fall asleep and then wake up the next morning. I am relating this with that fact that people think evolution was where we came from. Like Jack, it is very convenient to say, there is nobody watching us we can do as we wish" Although the boys knew good from evil before they crashed landed. This strictly related to reality, so who is lying? l
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
Are you fermiliar with the story, Lord of the Flies? For I have written a essay on it on how it is related to God, evolution and Jesus. I will release it on this, here, now!
Posted by mecap 5 years ago
mecap
"Thats why I am an evangelist Christian, a Christian which expresses God through me."
> That has nothing to do with the point that believing or not believing in God has no effect on one's life at any given time...

"You still have mentioned God as God exists. Even you know it, you just hide the truth. For your own selfish conenvience."
> Why are you so stuck in trying to put words in my mouth? LOL
In various cases you said that I claim to be God, then you claim that I try to make my own religion, when I'm merely entertaining a thought which you seem to believe in... now you suggest that I have said God exists. I'm entertaining the idea that God exists, and if he did- apparently he has NO EFFECT on this world; therefore I conclude that he does NOT exist...

"You seem quite unaware of the motion of infinity, you can not get infinity + 1. That would make infinity a single and solid knowleadgeable number. Come on now!"
> Sure... my only point is that infinity + 1 is just as infinite as infinity. So when you claim God is the Greatest, I can claim that Valhalla is greater than God since there is no actual way to measure God's greatness. None of the characteristics which you ascribe to God are actually quantifiable, so there is nothing from stopping me from saying X is greater than God.

"I know it is a sad story, however I can tell 5 other possitive thing God has done in peoples lives."
> And I can tell 100 other negative ways God has impacted people's lives... we can go at this forever, you can't base your argument on that (neither can I), so it's a mute point.

"Why don't you find God and know God's existence in the way that every other Christian has."
> Because I have come to the conclusion that God's existence is so highly improbable that it's practically impossible... And why should I waste my time in believing something which deliberately tries to make people reject reality?
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
And looked up at the celing, at the same time I was in tears, I repeatedly said, "where was I"
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
"And in my personal experience God has the same influence on believers and non-believers." -- Thats why I am an evangelist Christian, a Christian which expresses God through me. You still have mentioned God as God exists. Even you know it, you just hide the truth. For your own selfish conenvience.

"I can imagine something that has the infinite amount of power + 1 in an infinite amount of ways +1. If you say infinity I'll say infinity + 1." You seem quite unaware of the motion of infinity, you can not get infinity + 1. That would make infinity a single and solid knowleadgeable number. Come on now!

"Not at all, I just repeat what you say and I add + 1... so it's based off your evil doings, all I'm going to do is reflect everything you say. Every characteristics that you describe....." -- Again to terms with the motion, intinity. You talk nonesense once more.

"The woman was psychologically unstable... she was what you would call "a good Christian woman", but she was mentally ill- not at all her fault and you can't judge it was her fault either." -- I know it is a sad story, however I can tell 5 other possitive thing God has done in peoples lives. Such as this, In Ameriaca a baby was born with a 8th of his brain missing, he would grow up to be mentally retarded at the best case. However the mother and father both got a voice saying "all will be ok" The baby which should had died as a early invinte lives, that 8th of the brain grow as should have from the start. And now the boy is well and normal, the doctors report recorded it as a unbelieveable mirical.

Every time I comment I will send you another mirical.

You last pharagraph I will just say. Why don't you find God and know God's existence in the way that every other Christian has. Believe me that when I repented (the way to know God) I wasn't expecting anything, I didn't know anything of God. But I did it, and the holy spirit came to me and I accpeted it. I fell on my knees.....
Posted by mecap 5 years ago
mecap
"Again it is a personal event, I can only say claimed because it is not a FACT to everyone, only to that person(s)."
> And in my personal experience God has the same influence on believers and non-believers.

"But you can't thats the thing."
> Of Course I can :)... that's the beauty of having the ability to imagine, if you can imagine something that is infinitely powerful in an infinite amount of ways, I can imagine something that has the infinite amount of power + 1 in an infinite amount of ways +1. If you say infinity I'll say infinity + 1.

"Again those characteristics only relect what you thing is perfect based off of your evil doings."
> Not at all, I just repeat what you say and I add + 1... so it's based off your evil doings, all I'm going to do is reflect everything you say. Every characteristics that you describe, I'll just describe the same one but greater :).

"I can only say what God has done. You choose to believe me or not, if you don't I couldn't care."
> I choose not to believe you :).

"Free will eh."
> Another topic there ;).

"That wife stabbing her kids have nothing to do with God, but it was her fault she did the murdurs."
> The woman was psychologically unstable... she was what you would call "a good Christian woman", but she was mentally ill- not at all her fault and you can't judge it was her fault either.

In any case, I want to get to the bottom of the characteristics thing: the fact that you can describe an abstract concept it doesn't mean that the given concept is actually true. You can list all the characteristics you want, and I'll just repeat them and say "greater than that"- it's just language, it doesn't translate into fact or reality. In any case, you've already said that the existence of God is a personal experience, and you can't prove it to anybody else... so why are you even arguing and trying to prove something which you know can't be proven?
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
"The key word there is "claimed"... these claims cannot be verified. Millions of people have claimed that they have seen UFOs, but we can't verify that either." -- Again it is a personal event, I can only say claimed because it is not a FACT to everyone, only to that person(s).

"Again, stating God's characteristics does not make God exist :)... I can state the characteristics of a being greater than God, and it won't make it exist." -- But you can't thats the thing. Again those characteristics only relect what you thing is perfect based off of your evil doings.

"Obviously not, so why would the characteristics of God automatically make him real?" -- Why would Christians even consider, lust, white lies, light thievely to be evil? Why would we counter our selves? Since we are all sinners. Wouldn't we just ignore God completely, there is no doubt that God exists, but wouldn't we be like you are? What makes one change? Do not say, "Because we are scared of hell" This is just, we think about now, not then. You think about then not now.

"Prove that it does... " -- I can only say what God has done. You choose to believe me or not, if you don't I couldn't care. Free will eh.

That wife stabbing her kids have nothing to do with God, but it was her fault she did the murdurs. God has given us a choice, it says that it the Bible a number of times where God has given us this time of earth to decide what we think is wise. I think knowing and believeing in God could get more wise for me.
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