The Instigator
GodSands
Pro (for)
Losing
35 Points
The Contender
JustCallMeTarzan
Con (against)
Winning
178 Points

Randomness is a lack of Knowledge in both Spiritual and Physical world.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/7/2009 Category: Education
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 6,097 times Debate No: 6433
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (176)
Votes (31)

 

GodSands

Pro

By not being able to have the knowledge of a great or a small deal of information is random. As information is knowledgeable, therefore by definition it would appear random, as you have no knowledge of the matter at hand.

If being scared is a fright of sudden randomness, not being able to understand something. Like in my very personal case not understanding the spiritual world is frightening as well as random. Example: Water into wine by Jesus Christ. This will seem random because of your lack of knowledge on the matter at hand. By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge, so with that in mind is the spiritual world not be anymore random than the physical world? As I believe that sin like Satan who hides from a sinner to prevent you knowing your spiritual side. As I believe we are both physical and spiritual beings. Hell is the place where your spirit dies, Heaven is where you spirit lives. Sin leads to a physical life style. Therefore believing in the spiritual world would almost be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general.
If say a animal such as a cat chases the light from a torch on a wall, it remains skeptical (study from a distance) of the torch.

As randomness can be implied to both the physical and the spiritual world. Like it would be physical to not understand the spiritual world, as spirits can act random to the physical world. On the other hand it would not be spiritual to understand the physical world. Example: To a spirit a brick wall seems random, as to the spirit can walk right through the brick wall. When to physical beings it is perfectly normal. Sin has grown normal to people who only believe only in the physical world. As through out the Bible Jesus tell you to "get to know" your spiritual side. "Do not price in treasure and riches in this life as it will be destroyed my moths and rust, but instead grow strong in your spirit so in heaven your treasures and riches with not be destroyed by moths and rust." As sin leads to physical attractions. Like Drinking, sex, murder, stealing etc...These things are impossible when you are a spirit. And a spirit will seem skeptical about these things. Earlier I wrote.

"Therefore believing in the spiritual world would be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general."

The devil is hidden so that you would not know of God. But only has lead you into a trap of believing that only the physical world exists, therefore do what you wish.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent uses an egregious misunderstanding as the basis of his argument. He asserts with no warrant or source that "By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge." However, this is simply incorrect. By definition, randomness is the state of being random, which in turn is:

Random (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
–adjective
1. proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern: the random selection of numbers.
2. Statistics. of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.

Nothing in this definition arises from lack of knowledge - for knowledge is (among other things):

Knowledge (http://dictionary.reference.com...)
–noun
1. acquaintance with facts, truths, or principles, as from study or investigation; general erudition: knowledge of many things.

As the reader can clearly see - a lack of acquaintance with facts, truths, etc... does not equate to a state of occurring or being made without aim or purpose.

***************************************

Some responses:

>> "If being scared is a fright of sudden randomness, not being able to understand something."

This makes no sense. All times you are scared is because you are afraid of sudden randomness?

>> "This will seem random because of your lack of knowledge on the matter at hand."

Assuming this actually happened, this would seem anything BUT random - there was clearly an intention in the action.

>> "By definition randomness is a lack of knowledge"

False.

>> "As randomness can be implied to both the physical and the spiritual world."

Well of course... duh. Unless you mean "applied," in which case, you cannot APPLY randomness - if you purposely apply it - it's not random.

>> "Like it would be physical to not understand the spiritual world, as spirits can act random to the physical world."

Again - doesn't make sense. One cannot ACT random. Actions can appear random to others, even though they're not. And since you've presented no scientific evidence for these spirits, I have no way of judging their actions or the merit of the theory.

>> "To a spirit a brick wall seems random, as to the spirit can walk right through the brick wall."

Again - makes no sense - a brick wall is clearly a constructed object and would not appear random except to some very unintelligent spirit.

>> ""Therefore believing in the spiritual world would be impossible. And therefore you will remain skeptical of God, angels and spirits in general.""

Red herring - immaterial to the resolution.

>> "The devil is hidden so that you would not know of God. But only has lead you into a trap of believing that only the physical world exists, therefore do what you wish."

Red herring - immaterial to the resolution.

**************************************

Once again, GodSands has written a lot of nothing, beginning with a false premise and culminating in the notion that somehow, randomness, a concept applied to a situation where specific a priori knowledge is in principle impossible, amounts to a lack of knowledge. Randomness is not by any stretch of the imagination a lack of knowledge. Randomness is a lack of organization. It is possible to examine that lack of organization and glean knowledge about it, but the randomness itself is not a lack of knowledge.

My opponent will no doubt argue that the impossibility of gleaning knowledge counts as a lack of knowledge. However, consider that the knowledge is not impossible to get - it's merely impossible to get A PRIORI - which is exactly the same situation we find ourselves in with everything. A priori knowledge is impossible - as such, the argument that this constitutes lack of knowledge is nonsense.

I look forward to reading and deciphering my opponent's rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 1
GodSands

Pro

As a child you believe in Santa Claus? Most children do. You enjoyed the fact that Santa was a cheerful man, who deserved to give gifts to your children. (If you are a parent you get no credit for Christmas when you have young children as Santa does all the work) You as a Child are born enjoying Christmas every year believe that Santa will come into your house (If Santa was to visit ever house in one night, He would have to spend a 1 millionth of a second at each house) Moving that fast is supernatural. Like the devil who hides, it would be impossible for the eye to see Santa as your eye can only see a maximum of a 20th of a second. So Santa is the devils way for bring in the children into the Physical world (mentioned in my other debate, "Randomness is a lack of knowledge in the Spiritual and Physical world")
As a Child the Devil acts like the child is in control by doing nothing on Christmas and the devil (now known to me as Santa) has the burden of running about after presents. When you Grow older you become the devils slave as you do not believe in Santa and therefore the devil anymore. Making your life style converted by physical not spiritual beliefs. And now as a adult with money "You can not serve two masters, money and God." is more avaible, again more involved in the physical world. So now the burden is on you to run into shops buying gifts you are now the devils slave who has seemed to have disappeared as quickly as Santa did.

The trap is hell and if you are still a sinner you will go there unless you trust in Jesus (spiritual) and confess you are a evil person in a physical world.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent's entire Round 2 argument is completely immaterial and in no way pertains to the resolution.

Although it is quite amusing.
Debate Round No. 2
GodSands

Pro

I supose I win. And then all this includes macroevolution and gravity also lose out here as theay are Physical not Spiritual.
JustCallMeTarzan

Con

My opponent's entire Round 3 argument is completely immaterial and in no way pertains to the resolution.

Although it is quite amusing.

*************************************

Again, GodSands has done nothing but spew nonsense that has no real value and only vaguely resembles a coherent train of thought, much less an argument.

Vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
176 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
"Now the Hebrews were not an especially technological society; when Solomon built his Temple he had to hire Phoenecian artisans for the really technical work. So the author of this passage may not have known the exact value of pi, or thought his readers might not be aware that specifying the diameter of a circle automatically specifies its circumference. In any case, the essential point was the impressive size of the cauldron, and its dimensions were only approximate, because the ratio of the circumference to the diameter is stated to be exactly three rather than the real value of pi which is 3.14159...." -- The Bible was not wrong purposly. Yeah there we go now. Sorted on this Pi issue.
Posted by TheSkeptic 5 years ago
TheSkeptic
HAHAHA did GodSands try to change pi's value? Oh lord, he's done it all.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 5 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
Try again... you want to go get a circle and measure one rotation of it? I guarantee that you will find the "active" pi to be 3.141592653.... NOT 3.

Why can you not accept that the book of Hebrews is WRONG about the value of pi ??
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
Yes I knew pi was a number like that, however, we could not life in a world or at least every day life would be more diffucult. Life would be hard to come by day in day out. 3.0 is the active Pi 3.14 is mathmaticlly correct.
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 5 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
I know off the top of my head that Pi is 3.141592653.... pi is a non-terminating decimal - NOT THREE!!!!!
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
Wouldn't it be more idiotic if you did not correct me if I am wrong? Correct me if I am wrong!
Posted by JustCallMeTarzan 5 years ago
JustCallMeTarzan
>> "To use PI correctly, or to use a circul correctly, PI works at 3.0 not 3.14. Unless you want to live in a loopy doopy, wacky adventure universe. I do not."

OH. MY. GOD. This is going on my list of top ten most idiotic things ever uttered.
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
I think about this stuff all of the time, at work, at college when I am in bed, everywhere. I exercise my mind, soul and strength with God everyday. Probably why I am out of your mind?
Posted by mecap 5 years ago
mecap
I'm done... seriously, you're way out of your mind!
Posted by GodSands 5 years ago
GodSands
"neanderthals are just old people with arthritis and every baby is a Gift From God- except Hitler and a couple of other sh**heads that decided to f**k with your religion..." -- What in the middle of the neanderthals and us? I would only say there are people with the same back problem at that time. Maybe it was common as there was no machinary?
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