The Instigator
ShadowKingStudios
Pro (for)
Winning
9 Points
The Contender
Truth_seeker
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points

Rap Battles on DDO Should Employ Vocals Since Vocals are the Meaning in Rap

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
ShadowKingStudios
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 7/30/2014 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,113 times Debate No: 59768
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (23)
Votes (3)

 

ShadowKingStudios

Pro

The Premise for each opponent goes:

Pro: Rap Battles on DDO should include at least one vocal representation of the written lyrics.
Con: Rap Battles on DDO shouldn't include a vocal representation because...

In actual Rap Battles the opponents are judged on more than just punchlines & insults but also delivery & the use of their delivery (aka flow). So why do Judges adopt a pardoning attitude of a lack of accountability with DDO members? Shouldn't DDO members be held to the same "judging criteria" as real rappers for their "vocal delivery"?

Pro will demonstrate vocal delivery can be a key essential in determining which DDO member has lyrics that can actually be practically "rapped" thus showing which opponent would likely win in a real Rap Battle.
Con must demonstrate vocal delivery isn't a key essential in determining the opponent's lyrics are practical representations of real vocal rapping.

Both parties must use these person's lyrics as examples:
ShadowKing
Blade of Truth
Mikal
9SpaceKing
ChosenWolff
AND (if space & content warrants it) any DDO member who submits their name.

Serious Debate (but informal & not restricted to tech speak). Trolls will get ethered in ALL my upcoming Rap Battles.
Only Lyrics previously used in past debates.
Truth_seeker

Con

Thank Pro for starting this interesting debate.

While rapping vocals would be nice, DDO was not really designed to work that way. If you really want vocals, be a part of an actual live rap battle, but other than that, rapping on DDO is simply to drop text.

My other point is that the lyrics you deliver online aren't always practical to rap them in real life. I'll illustrate with one of your lyrics from our rap battle http://www.debate.org...:

"I got many fiery fluent flows filled with flare, I fling at you feminine flea bags
The first to flaunt fulgurous rapping fatality directly against you fruity f@gs
The truth, TruthSeeker: They turn you off like a terrible TV show with trivial teenage vocabulary
And tune in to me to be treated with terrific tales as they take a trip through the dictionary

I got many fiery fluent flows / filled with flare / I fling at you feminine flea bags
The first to flaunt / fulgurous rapping fatality / directly against you fruity f@gs
The truth, TruthSeeker: / They turn you off like a terrible TV show / with trivial teenage vocabulary
And tune in to me / to be treated with terrific tales / as they take a trip through the dictionary"

In that same comment, you admitted that it's not possible to rap this with a considerable amount of breath.

May i remind you also that not everyone on DDO is a vocal rapper. That being said, it's easier to create cleverly devised lyrics in which you can write whatever complex words you want and it's valid. In real life, that won't really be possible to vocally deliver. Online you can analyze each other's lyrics and it's alot faster to respond accordingly, whereas in a vocal track, it takes longer and you have to keep up with their vocals. If they mess up (audio isn't loud enough, etc.), it already disrupted the rap battle.

For those reasons, while in real life it's better to rap with vocals because of the purpose and structure of DDO, rappers should stick just to text drops.
Debate Round No. 1
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

Let us demonstrate Con’s arguments are idle & not substantially a factor to avoid vocal authenticity.

Con states: "Not everyone on DDO is a vocal rapper."

Pro: It’s not about being a professional battle emcee. Simply--its about vocalizing your lyrics as a “reliable source” to provide validity of flow.

Con states: "In real life, that won't really be possible to vocally deliver."

Pro: In real life you’re typing on your computer penned down lyrics, so in accordance to real life those lyrics should be feasible to vocally deliver. Here is a prime example of a misinterpretation of what flow a written lyric takes and is perceived erroneously to the reader as impractical to flow with cadence.

First, Con erroneously assumes or misread what I previously claimed by stating here, "you admitted that it's not possible to rap this with a considerable amount of breath." No, sir, I never made that claim with the above lyrics you used. I stated,

"If you read the lyrics & felt you got tongue twisted in the process, then that vindicates my previous use of the forward slash / to indicate where vocal delivery must "pause" to maintain cadence & rhythm. In my debate w/ Mikal voters vilified my use of / claiming it made my lyrics hard to understand. They weren't hard to comprehend, it just meant they don't know how to read rap lyrics properly. Had I used bar meters aka / then it would've been visually clear where to pause, to maintain flow & not become tongue twisted."

I established not the impossibility of enough breath to spit my lyrics, but that READING them improperly would cause you to get tongue twisted on their flow when you mentally envision the vocalization of them.

Now let’s demonstrate the necessity for properly adding bar meters in text ( / ) and how vocalization of the creator places the flow of the lyrics in audibly pleasing cadence. For the utmost impact do exactly as I state below:

Read this how YOU personally READ lyrics on DDO:

I got many fiery fluent flows filled with flare, I fling at you feminine flea bags
The first to flaunt fulgurous rapping fatality directly against you fruity f@gs
The truth, TruthSeeker: They turn you off like a terrible TV show with trivial teenage vocabulary
And tune in to me to be treated with terrific tales as they take a trip through the dictionary

Click on links in order (or skip to #4 for the immediate resolution):

Bar measures applied vocally for cadence. #1

https://www.dropbox.com...

Bar measures applied vocally for cadence WITH audio clean up. #2

https://www.dropbox.com...

Bar measures applied vocally for cadence WITH ACUs, Reverb & FXs. #3

https://www.dropbox.com...

Bar measures applied vocally for cadence WITH ACUs, Reverb, FXs, & Beat. #4

https://www.dropbox.com...

Now, did you smile, lean back, and gain a respect for how vocalization gave you the musical feeling you properly deserve when judging the power or non-power of someone RAP lyrics?

Notice how the beat elevated the lyrics & made you pay for attention to exactly how words were delivered? In concluding and debunking Con’s R1 claims, #4 is not my petition, just #1. Music is not an essential or standard by which you should judge an opponent’s lyrics (only if you consider it as “A Reliable Source”). Flow is not the way you read lyrics—that’s called grammatical pacing. You grammatically pace yourself in pronouncing each word or set of words for the understanding or meaning in them. Flow pertains to smoothness in vocalization. It has nothing to do with understanding the words (like pace does) but rather enjoyment in their sound when spoken.

Truth_seeker

Con

When i said "not everyone is a vocal rapper", i mean that not everyone can vocalize their lyrics for lack of a mic or other things, but stick to written lyrics.

Pro states "It"s not about being a professional battle emcee. Simply--its about vocalizing your lyrics as a "reliable source" to provide validity of flow." Like i said, DDO is constructed for a lyrically based rap battle, not for audio. Based on the format of votes, it's more suitable for judging lyrics (grammar, spelling, convincing arguments, etc.) rather than flow.

While yes, i agree with you that vocalization in person is preferable,

Con states "In real life youre typing on your computer penned down lyrics, so in accordance to real life those lyrics should be feasible to vocally deliver." Not necessarily, i tried to vocally freestyle complex lyrics as i did when i write them online and it disrupts my rhythm. I have to limit my syllables and word uses to a more simpler form. DDO rap battles have more freedom to add a variety of words to their lyrics and can get away with it.

"I established not the impossibility of enough breath to spit my lyrics, but that READING them improperly would cause you to get tongue twisted on their flow when you mentally envision the vocalization of them."

I argue that it's less effective to add breaks and adding vocals will probably only ruin the power of your visualization of the lyrics. If i write aggressive and powerfully inflicted burns in my lyrics, but my voice isn't suited to create an aggressive tone, it's only going to reduce the effectiveness of my raps. Put it simply, it's better to be straight-forward and lyrical than to have proper flow online. You have a nice flow, but it's not consistent with my visualization of your lyrics so your punchlines aren't as effective to me.
Debate Round No. 2
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

When i said "not everyone is a vocal rapper", i mean that not everyone can vocalize their lyrics for lack of a mic or other things, but stick to written lyrics.

This does not invalid the software accommodation Sound Recorder that is found on every modern computer. You don't need a costly high quality microphone, you can use your computer's built in mc. I do. Thus Con's angle here is, like I said, idle & not substantially a factor to avoid vocal authenticity.

Con's admission: "i tried to vocally freestyle complex lyrics as i did when i write them online and it disrupts my rhythm" is contradictory & proof that there is a huge difference between pace & flow.

1st, his statement is contradictory because "freestyle" means to instantly create vocalized lyrics on the spot. So how is Con doing that if he writes them down? Does Con mean he recites them after writting them down? By Jove,I should hope so, lest his statement remains an uneducated contradictory claim.

Con's admission states his inability to take his complex written lyrics and flow them out in decent cadence is evidence that perhaps the word rap should be dropped from Battle & replaced with Lyrical. His admission does not speak for other DDO members. In fact, Con used my complex alliteration lyrics to previously support his hypothesis to which I vocally dismantled with a smooth, rhythmic recording with those same complex lyrics.

Con stated: "I argue that it's less effective to add breaks and adding vocals will probably only ruin the power of your visualization of the lyrics."

Perhaps, Con has lived in a cave for the last 10 years and have never seen nor heard this:

No more games, I'ma change what you call rage
Tear this motherfucking roof off like two dogs caged
I was playing in the beginning, the mood all changed
I've been chewed up and spit out and booed off stage
But I kept rhyming and stepped right into the next cypher
Best believe somebody's paying the pied piper
All the pain inside amplified by the fact
That I can't get by with my 9 to 5
And I can't provide the right type of life for my family
Cause man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
And it's no movie, there's no Mekhi Phifer, this is my life
And these times are so hard, and it's getting even harder
Trying to feed and water my seed, plus
Teeter totter caught up between being a father and a prima donna
Baby mama drama's screaming on and
Too much for me to wanna
Stay in one spot, another day of monotony
Has gotten me to the point, I'm like a snail
I've got to formulate a plot or I end up in jail or shot
Success is my only motherfucking option, failure's not...

Click to hear the multiple "breaks" in his flow. Find my comment & click 3:07.

https://www.youtube.com...

Con: "Put it simply, it's better to be straight-forward and lyrical than to have proper flow online."
Pro: Look at Con's Rap Battle in below link.
http://www.debate.org...
And notice what FuzzyCatPotato rightly states in the voting comments.
The visualization of his lyrics gives the impression that his vocal delivery would be zig-zagging everywhere: China, Spain, Indian Ocean, Vegas, down the block, on the moon, D.C., Peru, etc. There is no center of gravity. Think I'm full of sh*t?

Check out Blade of Truth's lyrics. http://www.debate.org...
Blade demonstrates visual lyrics that blow a smooth fresh breeze in your face, soothing your senses to make you simply love how they are paced. In result, you immediately get the impression "this guy is awesome". On the other hand, Con's lyrical visualization makes you feel like you're about to be sodomized, pissed on, pooped on, & hacked into pieces, thus you immediately want to vote "hell naw!"

Further evidence can be shown in a vocal demonstration. Con could rap his own lyrics; I rap Blade's. I bet my further existence on DDO that my vocal representation of just ONE of Blade's verses would audibly crush ALL of Con's vocal representations of his own lyrics. Basically, it's a step up or completely leave DDO forever. To put this in proper perspective I'm declaring again, vocalization of your rhymes will clearly add validity to actual flow thus proving if the visualization represents high quality rapping, otherwise, there just lyrics--not rap lyrics.

Con: "You have a nice flow, but it's not consistent with my visualization of your lyrics so your punchlines aren't as effective to me."

Pro: What the hell is Con referring to? I've only uploaded 1 representation of my vocal delivery and it was a snippet. It's only purpose was to demonstrate a complex rhyme pattern delivered smoothly by an amateur rapper. And if we do analyze that snippet for a general consensus punchline effectiveness, we must do it according to a mutually agreed perspective.

The Urban Dictionary defines two Hip Hop related meanings for punchline.
3. "Its a word from HipHop. It define the last line of a rhyme, the one that bring it on point."
4. "The witty part of a joke or rap. Also ends the joke or rap."

Is this #3 or #4:
The truth, TruthSeeker: / They turn you off like a terrible TV show / with trivial teenage vocabulary
And tune in to me / to be treated with terrific tales / as they take a trip through the dictionary

Doesn't sound like a joke to me. Sort of humorous but not really funny.

What is the punchline?
The word that defines the last line of this rhyme? The word that brings both bars to a clear point.
First, the point in my use of alliteration here was to use "T" beginning words that correlate in telling a coherent point. Truth (x2) they, turn, terrible TV show, trivial teenage (vocabulary), tune (in to me), treated, terrific tales, they take a trip through (the dictionary).

The point is metaphorical of two completely different visual shows (him & I), he bears trivial teenage vocabulary like some real world TV shows; I try to treat you with terrific grammatical tales that take you on a trip through collegiate-level words found in a dictionary similar to how some real world TV show stimulate us with dynamic dialogue.

The punchlines written or spoken is so simple: people turn you off because your vocabulary is teenage rubbish; they tune into me because mine is a terrific use of dictionary found entries.

Truth_seeker

Con

Some people don't have mics, so that prevents them from participating.

If you look up "Free style rap" on wikipedia, it says that it's to perform lyrics, no where does it say that it must be vocalized.

Again, that was a nice flow you demonstrated, but i'm more interested in your argument for why vocals should be used. as of now, you haven't shown why breaks in audio would be any more effective than just lyrics. that being said, I'm going to txtdrop my lyrics and not worry about recording my voice.

Your exactly right, my lyrics should make you feel like you're about to get sodomized, hacked into pieces, pooped on, cuz you are in this rap battle.while blade is a great rapper, may I remind you that I won that battle you linked people to, so your statement that people would vote "hell naw" is false.

you're welcome to try and beat me in a rap battle with Blade's lyrics to audio, but at another time. For now,

are you implying that all this time on DDO you have been writing just lyrics and not rap? Your rap battles seem to back that up..

my opponent fails to address the other points listed..
Debate Round No. 3
ShadowKingStudios

Pro

1. Con mentioned "Some people don't have mics, so that prevents them from participating."
- All modern computers have built-in microphones. Your argument is dead.
2. Con cannot either read, failed to read correctly, or assumed things not in the evidence.
- Wiki states "Freestyle is a style of rap, with or without instrumental beats, in which rap lyrics are improvised, i.e. performed with no previously composed lyrics, and "off the top of the head". Your argument is erroneous.
3. Con cannot read because the allegorical descriptions about sodomy & hacked into pieces pertained to voters apprehension to take Con's lyrics as worthy of their time. The hyperbole did not imply the opponent's POV.
4. Con failed to realize the two links depict his statement. The first link, though he won the battle, was to reveal the visualization of his lyrics in LINK #1where asymmetrical. LINK #2, he lost to Blade, was to reveal additional evidence of Con's discombobulated lyrics vs. tightly woven rhymes.
- So my statement about voters voting "hell naw" stands as valid.
5. Con ask are my lyrics not raps.
- Nearly everybody who participated in Rap Battles, except TWG-Rorschach & myself, has provided lyrics (written words) and not raps (spoken words). The lyrics to my rap "Coward" can be heard here: http://www.debate.org...

Now...
ChosenWolff supplies very short bars in his lyrics which can actually be rapped easily.
Blade of Truth employs medium length bars that frequently employs multi-syllable words, which means he must be testing out the vocal flow before committing them to final print.
9 SpaceKing similarly does the same thing but on a smaller level than Blade. Though many of his lyrics can be rapped, some have bars lengths that vary and aren't rhythmically coherent.
TWG lyrics have complexity in them that most people would not understand but when he spits them the meaning becomes more clearer.
Mikal has most of lyrics in a formatted only suitable for reading not rapping. Very few of his lyrics can be vocally flowed with balance.
Adam2 even has good bars that can be flowed smoothly.

The crux of the matter here isn't whether a person's lyrics are packed venomous insults & linguistic mastery but more that they can actually be vocalized evenly. Even if a few bars are off rhythm, the totality of them adhere to vocalized practicality.

Demonstration
I will use the last 8 bars in Mikal's R2 verse & my R1 verse as an analysis that vocal delivery sets a definable standard of quality by which voters can fairly judge the strength of the lyrics.
http://www.debate.org...

Last 8 bars (Mine):

Youse a busta and a coward with no back bone, no spine like mine
Bet you 300 Bens on a vocal Battle, you cried, bitched, & whined
Eat this proof bittch you can't defeat this elite solo barricade
Need a teammate? Better take the Truth that comes with a Blade
-When reading these set of bars you will likely being reading them in a monotonic way since you do not know the rhythm I would use, nor the melody I crafted the lyrics to, and neither do you know what I sound like. Thus all those factors diminish the overall power of the words.
-The first two bars are vocally pitched different than all the other bars in the song. I pitched low to delivery them because, (AND I CHALLENGE YOU-ALL TO SIMPLY TRY THIS TECHNIQUE WITH YOUR OWN VOICE--YOU WILL BE AWED BY THE SOUND) of the multi-syllables & alliteration in the bars. Pitching your voice low with multis & alliteration 1.) gives your delivery more control over smoothness of sound; 2.) with more control of sound you can emphasis the letters & words for maximum thump. Listen to those bars and take notice how the highlighted words bounce off the beat nicely.
-I discovered that "s" sounds (this, his, shitt, etc) phonetically link rhyming words together better than any other word used as a conjunction. The 3rd bar phonetically sets your ear to perk up. I used this to maximize the following single bar diss with a cool metaphor that also alludes to a DDO member.


Are you listenin' femboy
You can't avoid the noise, of the Shadow, you have been destroyed now
And bittch, that chick with a dick, that you call yo finance, ain't no Beyonce dime
It's a crime when you rhyme, my punchlines will slap you in the face every time
-These bars "look" mediocre. But they pack a vocalize punch behind the beat they are riding. Listen for clarity. Multis are every where is those bars which elevate the phonology of the my vocal delivery.

Reading them you can visualize them being rapped. Hearing them heightens their meaning & intended purpose.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lat 8 bars (Mikal's):
The reason you don't have a spine is because I ripped it out, and watched you shout
Slashed your neck till your blood spewed out like a spout, this aint even a bout
This is like a fishing trip to me and you're a trout, going to poison you and give you gout
By the time this battle is over i'm going to beat you so bad that no one will have any doubt.
-These bars serve the sole purpose of being read, not rapped. The bold words indicate him explaining not rapping. The underlined word indicate words or wording not found in professional raps. Emcees do not employ "the" at the beginning of their bars unless it is the lead bar of the verse, this one isn't. "This is like" is prose, explaining rather than describing, example: "I'm on a fishing trip, you're the trout, going to poison you, give you fhuckin' gout." As you can see the rewrite mimics vocal rapping and gets to the point faster. His version is prose. Also he uses way too many conjunctions, which if you audibly heard would sound very amateurish.

My nigga I just want to let you know that you actually look like a bisexual ostrich
How much concentration does it take to realize you"re about to die in this camp, it"s Just like Auschwitz[2]
Concentration Camp, Auschwtiz, Die, I don't know if you just caught that but I just called you a jew
We can compare this battle to the holocaust, because just like all those lives that were lost this battle is through.
-Bold, again this is prose, him explaining not telling not describing. He repeats the same words again for the same explanation. Really? Is that musically rapping or simply speaking? Cut off "we can" and just say "Comparin' this battle" it's a better vocal delivery scheme. The underline indicated a bar too long to match it corresponding partner. Unless this is rapped Chopper-style, it won't sound smoothly delivered vocally. If he was to vocally rap these bars he would lose because he would sound like he's stumbling to fit grammar together properly.
ADDED BONUS:
-His use of "My nigga" proves he doesn't know its intended purpose. It is only used with friendly purposes or to alleviate a tense situation where you really don't want any beef. Really? Why is he using this in a heated rapping battle against his foe? A bit stupid, I say. It's a black term, I'm black, I know what I'm talking about. Ask another black purpose the only 2 times "my nigga" is ever used. Either he's being friendly or he's scared.

I showed much evidence that words in these Rap Battles (except for TWG & myself) are nothing more than lyrics not raps. Through simplicity, it's easy to record your lyrics into raps with the built-in mics on your computer through Sound Recorder. Through analyzing you've seen that most lyrics would fail horribly as raps thus eliminating them from being called raps. Through demonstration & commentary you've seen only about six DDO members bearing lyrics that can be rapped with smooth intense. BofT, C.Wolff, 9S.King, TWG, Adam2, & myself. Through Con's own admission, he established he can't rap his lyrics and will stick to "text drop".

Rap Battles on DDO will begin to lose flair unless we save them by employing vocals as a criteria.

Thank you.

Truth_seeker

Con

"All modern computers have built-in microphones. Your argument is dead."

I tried finding one on my desktop, asked various sources for how to do it, they said my pc doesn't have a built in mic, so i have to use an external mic. Unless you can show me how to do it (not that it's relevant), your argument is dead.

""Freestyle is a style of rap, with or without instrumental beats, in which rap LYRICS are improvised, i.e. performed with no previously composed lyrics, and "off the top of the head"

That's what i put emphasis on.

3. Well the point is, i won that debate thanks to people voting for me.

4. Yes, i admit i lost to Blade, but that was my first rap battle. Ever since then I've made progress and you can see the evidence.

5. It seems to me that you contradicted yourself saying that it's not about great lyrics, but if they can be vocalized evenly, but when it comes to Mikal, you say "most of [his] lyrics in a formatted only suitable for reading not rapping. Very few of his lyrics can be vocally flowed with balance."

I can see some of my raps being rapped, but i mostly stick to text drops not worrying about syllables, breaks, etc. because lyrical style and substance are what's more important. You would agree that lyrics would have been modified so that one can flow consistently and fluidly with vocal balance. My opponent in conclusion, fails to address these points:

1. The fact that not everyone can afford a mic, etc.

2. The fact that DDO is text-based

3. While you can vocalize your lyrics, for online purposes, it's not required.

In closing, my opponent failed to fulfill his burden of proof.
Debate Round No. 4
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by lefillegal1 2 years ago
lefillegal1
ANY lyric I write, I can perform, no matter how complicated it may read. Alot of people say my texts arent paced correctly, all I can say is "vocally" challenge me, whatever I type, believe I spit twice as nice. There are to many nuances that paper cant capture.
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Truth_seeker
Correction: "While yes, i agree with you that vocalization in person is preferable, unless you have a strong and solid flow for rap battles, you should not do audio drops"

sorry about that
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Truth_seeker
screw it, i'ma pretend to support the other side then lol
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Truth_seeker
so this is a formal debate right? (no rapping involved)
Posted by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
yeah, this is a good idea for rap battles, although some people might not have camera or microphone, it still forces to increases the quality of rap battles, as some ppl might read them differently, and the creator might read them in a way that suits his rap
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Just start getting some samples together in case we get 2 other members to accept the challenge.
Posted by GodChoosesLife 2 years ago
GodChoosesLife
Ohhhh sweet! That's cool!
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
ShadowKing Studios isn't a music studio, I just recently entered into freelance videography. But I do have music recording hardware & software.
Posted by GodChoosesLife 2 years ago
GodChoosesLife
You got a studio er what?
Posted by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
ShadowKingStudios
Not with this debate. But in another, titled & themed as a music challenge debate of 2 DDO members vs. 2 DDO members. I heard you singing in your singing debate. All I'd need is 3 or 4 different singing flows styles of you singing a chorus, a bridge, and voice overs behind a clean background. I'll compression & EQ them and lace them over a instrument with matching lyrics from me.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 9spaceking 2 years ago
9spaceking
ShadowKingStudiosTruth_seekerTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: pro had good points about increase in quality as well as rhythm
Vote Placed by FuzzyCatPotato 2 years ago
FuzzyCatPotato
ShadowKingStudiosTruth_seekerTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro's "more realistic/high quality" was strong. So was Con's "not everyone has a mic", but less so. Thus, 3:2.
Vote Placed by ChosenWolff 2 years ago
ChosenWolff
ShadowKingStudiosTruth_seekerTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: I've been following this debate. Pro brought forward some good points on why we might need vocal raps, such as "real rap isn't dictated in punch but flow". To which I agree. Great raps, and even rap battles, aren't decided by who packs harder punches, per say, but who had more style, rhythm, and creativity to their punches. Con tried to refute this by making a "one true form" fallacy for pretty much the whole debate. There was one argument, and it was a fallacy. You can't say that DDO is a text website, when it allows vocal and video debating/rapping. IE, dictating what's the truest form is almost always be a fallacy. That with the fact that Pro's points were dropped for the most part.