The Instigator
Pro (for)
21 Points
The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Rap battle: God does not condone evil

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Post Voting Period
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after 4 votes the winner is...
Voting Style: Judge Point System: Select Winner
Started: 9/12/2014 Category: Religion
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 750 times Debate No: 61576
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (6)
Votes (4)




I argue that God did no evil in the Old Testament, but this debate will take the form of a rap battle.


1) Bar length
2) Aggression
3) Lyrics
4) Originality
5) Rhyme schemes
6) Jokes
7) Intimidation
8) Personals
9) Disses
10) Rebuttals
11) Lyrical cleverness
12) Word-play
13) Complexity

Arguments will be judged on the following:

1) Strong definitions " If any ambiguity is found within each debators terms, count it against them

2) Arguments " The effectiveness of the arguments presented based on the premises and how well either side presents them with clarity.

3) Counter-arguments " Their effectiveness in how well they defend their argument or/and weaken their opponent's argument

4) Logical fallacies " Pointing out logical fallacies in their opponent's arguments demonstrates how well the debators understand logic. If an opponent uses personal attacks, etc. That is counted against them. Judges must name a specific fallacy and quote con or pro's exact words in context.

5) Unaddressed points " If an opponent fails to respond to a point, you are to count that against them. If they agree, that boosts their opponent's side.

6) Burden of proof " Was the burden of proof fulfilled by either side? If not, count that against the debator(s)

7) Evidence " who used the most qualitative and quantitative evidence to back up their claims? Who discredited their opponent's sources as fraud? Any evidence demonstrated to be weak is counted against the person who presented it. Judges may also discredit the evidence with an explanation. If however another member finds multiple sources discrediting their explanation, it won't count.

Whoever uses the most qualitive/quantative arguments/counters, evidence, plus creatively win this in the form of a rap battle wins.

First round acceptance


I hereby accept your debate, sir, though must first ask clarification.
1. What are the rules you've got before your actual rules? I see disses and aggression which, this being a "rap battle" will be difficult to avoid.
2. I see that this will be ruled on a judging system, with judges pre-defined, which I have to say could very easily provide bias, by that by relationship with my opponent, or by pre-standing world-view, which I know in debates on any kind of religious argument can be very problematic.

To both I ask that my opponent describe his thoughts in the comments, and to the second that all of the judges address my concerns, as well as describe their current religious views, for full discretion.

I anticipate a good debate, and wish the best of luck to my opponent.
Debate Round No. 1


Con believes that it's justified when a man takes guns n shoots
Wait! Why you blaming God for? You don't believe In absolutes! (1)
You need a lesson in distinguishing between murder and punishment
Cuz you can't go to law school if you can't understand a government

You don't believe that morality is objective
But we still put God's rules in their perspective
You accuse God of evil n pretend to be innocent
Now we can all see you nothing but a hypocrite!

How you gon judge Israel for following their contract
But allow for the u.s army to go and attack Iraq?
How are you going to diss God for burning Sodom
But you perfectly ok with dropping the atomic bomb?

Yes God allows slavery, but they were fed stew (2)
I'm sure they were more educated than you
I'ma pass it to you, put verses in the proper stanza
I'm bout to expose you using atheist propaganda

This n*gga will get on an Israelite for wearing a vest
But I don't see him helping humanity, making progress

1. Moral absolute

2. Slaves in the ancient world vowed to work for their masters in exchange for benefits


Strawman, one, an argumentative fallacy,
Two, exactly what you're using in your fantasy,
Three, a flammable person that's catchin' flames,
Indistinguishable from you, just plus brains,

You're prematurely takin' me out,
Sayin' my morals are in some doubt,
Whereas you're gettin' props from your big sky friend,
Yo if you didn't figure murder was wrong, I can't defend,

But if you're goin' to insist that he is up there now,
I'm afraid his moral doings are beyond that doubt,
The most royally f*cked up sh*t I've ever heard,
An' that someone out believes it? That's absurd!

If your God's almighty, and not as fake as Saint Nicholas,
He can't be benevolent, thanks Epicurus,(1)
Isaiah four-fiddy-seven, author of evil,(2)
The story o' Noah's flood, a great upheaval,(3)

"But wait, weren't every person there evil?"
Sure, only counting original sin people.
And remind me again, who authored that rule?
Knowing full well the consequences, damned fool?(4)

But let's go smaller, how 'bout fourty-two,
Small children dead, done by your deity too,(5)
Why the hell would you think that's okay?
Oh, he an' god were tight, fine, have it your way,

Man, I know of gangs that take revenge less cruelly,
But when they do that, you say "No!" 'cause your duality
Is allowin' even mauling o' kids to look peachy!
But when I see something like that, guy quit your preaching.

But wait, I'm not done!

You're over here talkin' about the slavery?
Like your god's big ol' plan here depends on thee?
Man that's got to be the least of your worries,
When genocide after -cide's lookin' straight at me!(6)

But let me humor you, "indentured servitude,"
Except, you know, when it's not, and just similitude,
You call taking children 'way from their parents,
And selling them, that to you'd moral apparent?(7)

Just because you give it a little name,
Doesn't mean in the slightest that it's without shame,
Slavery's bad! One-hudred-ten-fold percent!
When you're owning a person, that's bad, constant.

So now, off of that, let's me bring up the misogyny,
A woman is her husband's straight up property,
Sold for goats and sheep, against her will,
So he can bring forth children, I'd say a great deal!

And should a virgin be raped, she'll be stoned,(8)
To death, me thinks! Double entendre for boned,
But still they cannot be said to speak in church,
Because women are women, and women...

Are... Dumb.

So now it is appropriate,
To which I'm sure you celebrate,
I insist that I anticipate,
My opponent's next, to participate.

This is so dumb.
Debate Round No. 2


Reading the 1st's overbearing!
Your logical fallacy is: the red herring (1)

Murder is a verb, is the action right or is it just wrong?
No one can say, but i'm puttin you where you belong
How can you judge what a man has been through?
Blaming God when he's the one who created you

I'ma back hand you, slap the ignorance out your mind
Bout to put you to sleep, cuz it's way past your bedtime
Lets first address this proposed alleged problem of evil
I'm on another level, an intellectual showin we ain't equal

But you never defined these morals as an absolute system
Thus any definitions i use, i pull out like water from cisterns
So gain this knowledge that God is one over all in the Shema (2)
There's many reasons for God allowing evil, no false dilemma (3)

What caused all this? It's in our nature, man's own free will
If God made you fully sinless like him, you'd be bickerin' still
If you were made fully evil, God would still be malevolent
Therefore suck it up and fight against your evil equivalent

secondly, you need to read a book lets just be blatant!
I slap the ignorance out your mouth, God said "be patient!"
Cuz all the evil of this world will end at the messianic reign
Evil cannot exist without good, that's why we needed Cain
That's why Jesus will throw up his father's glory he's victorious!
Evil cannot corrupt that which is eternally and perfectly glorious!

Philosophically, i will illustrate with the philosopher Job
Feeling the pain like Jesus when he wore a bloody robe
The verdict is set, you cannot say that God is unloving
Manifested himself in a man to experience man's suffering

God puts obstacles in our way so we can grow in faith
Unfortunately no one believes in you, so become a wraith!
Isaiah 45:7, lil boy your eyes are conflict, you need contacts
Hasn't anyone taught you to read things in their proper context?!?

The NASB says "that men may know him from sun rise to the setting sun"
Do you see the parallels? This talks about nature, your now officially done!
God is the one forming physical light and darkness, natural phenomena
Your mother must have dropped you while feedin you in the process!
The Hebrew word "ra" is used to refer to naturally disastrous calamities (4)

I should lobotomize you! Cuz he causes natural not moral disaster
Your lil teenage hormones are runnin, you need to see a youth pastor
The great deluge was a judgement but also salvation to those who commit
2 Peter 2:5 says Noah was a preacher, so why didn't the heathens do it?
Noah was saved because he obeyed the commandment, honorin the highest
For his faith in God, he did good and for that, credited among the righteous
There's absolutely no original sin, Gen. 8:21 says sin's from man's childhood
That means that everyone has free-will to choose, you dunce! Is that understood?!

God is the judge of all life on earth, for every sin he will report
Society mimics the almighty, cuz the mallet is on God's court
God spared Elijah cuz they were about to kill him, had to defend
Calling him baldhead was a death threat (5) a sign it's the end

1st of all, it's not genocide! Deuteronomy 20 allows for a peace treaty! (6)
All the nations suffered, taking advantage of the needy cuz they greedy
Deut. 7:4 says evil is a disease so killing off the infected is a necessary reason
Isn't that why we have the death penalty for citizens who commit vile treason?!

Ex. 21:16 says that selling a slave is completely forbidden
Open up your eyes to that which has been laid hidden
Slaves worked in exchange for labor and shelter (7)
So you can tear out the view that God is helter skelter

The Hebrew word for man is "geber" that means warrior! (8)
The woman was not to wear armor cuz that was an order
So you claim that women were property as if that had relevance
Ironically, you just expect us to believe you without any evidence!

As we conclude, you most definitely are not a logician
Your just another wussy to put into a huge submission!
Your going to regret your words, do penance n remission!
Using those broken arguments isn't helping people in Haiti!
It means that you whine about the world cuz you a cry baby!
It means that you think your bigger with these biblical insults
But in reality, you cry loudly thinking that it'll satisfy your wants!

Stop boasting, bear some weight on those shoulders and take some responsibility!
If you don't like the world, come up with a better system, try gain scientific credibility!



2. The Shema is Deut. 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." According to the Archaeological study Bible, Jews believed in a monotheistic God who reigned in righteousness and controlled everything.



5. Jamieson, R., Fausset, A., & and Brown, D. (1997). Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible (electronic ed.) (2 Ki 2:23). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

6. Deut. 20:10

7. "A person would either enter into slavery or be sold by a parent or relative. Persons sold their wives, grandchildren, brother (with his wife and child), sister, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, nephews and niece"Many of the documents emphasize that the transaction is voluntary. This applies not only to self-sale but also to those who are the object of sale, although their consent must sometimes have been fictional, as in the case of a nursing infant." [A History of Ancient Near Eastern Law 1.665] "War is only mentioned as a source of slavery for public institutions. The most frequently mentioned method of enslavement was sale of children by their parents. Most are women, evidently widows, selling a daughter; in one instance a mother and grandmother sell a boy"There are also examples of self sale." A History of Ancient Near Eastern Law 1.199

8. Ibid. "Hebrew Lexicon entry for Geber". Strong's # 1397.


Alright, I'll bite, your god's real, so's his might,
His power comprehendible to him only, right?
Beyond the thoughts of man, so inconceivable,
A mind so utterly perfect, morals' adhesible, (1)

So by that we're assuming that evil exists, it is something,
Things like murder, theft, J-B's music, and adultering, (2)(3)
It might not follow then, that god is honing it,
But it certainly would to say that he's condoning it,

Because that's what we're arguing here, is that correct?
The title of your argument matches, now get set,
Because I'm whooping all of your half-baked statements,
And let's just say not stellar lyrical defacements,

Look, you said it yourself, can't be no good,
Without the presence of evil, I'm understood?
So then therefore this omnipotent creator,
Must have consciously laid it out, without debator,

So we can logically come to conclude,
That God is for it, no matter however crude,
And while it may he be so called "within his nature,"
It is however allowed, by him the maker.

So let's all take look at the definitionality,
To allow or permit (something) espesh. reluctanty,
So if you're on the side that god is so all powerful,
He'd be the one to keep allowing which is sourful.

I had my reason when I quoted that good ol' Epicarus, (4)
Because you will now be floundering like Icarus, (5)
Compared to you, I am a logical Copernicus, (6)
You can't even see what's in front of your oculus (7)

If you are looking back at both our rounds,
We'd agree that evil exists, it can be found, (8)
Possessed within acts of hatred and brutality
Or does that not exist by your so perfect morality? (9)

Let me give one more thing, before I leave you,
And plant on one more problem, to bereave you,
So don't go on pretending like you don't understand me,
Or even that you're disagreeing, we know you can't be,

Let's take a look at that citation, number three,
Blaspheming"s a stated evil against the "big H" He,
And how in the world did this end up instilled?
Oh yeah, a little something you call the free will? (10)

So then, without the will to not to believed,
So that your God can be so worshiped and pleased,
We come to see exactly that evil,
So either God endorses evil, or you"ve got no free weevil. (11)

So now I"d like to see just how "xactly you will try these ones,
And don"t be oh so petulantly changing definitions,
You"ve argued what you"ve argued, and now you"ve gotta" stick with
So I hereby decree your arguments will here be forthwith

But so in the end the judges will come out with scores,
And they"ll all favor my, deep moral explores,
Because we all here can look and judge this like adults,
Without the need of falling in with your Christian cults.

1. adj. possessing the capacity to be adhesive to
Debate Round No. 3


Right now, i'm about to discipline Zmax with a bone!
Cuz as of right now, this b*stard needs a good home!
Humiliate him as i show what God doesn't condone
cuz everything God forbids has been set in stone! (1)

You say God would stop all evil immediately but give no sources!
God controls all natural forces n' teaches us faith in our life courses!
Cuz to glorify him through suffering is what he faithfully endorses! (2)

If your doing philosophy, i should knock some sense in your mom
Don't get a degree in theology cuz dang you been doin it all wrong!

Philosophize this you twit! (3) n' see if you can logically know!
For every action, there's a reaction, you reap what you sow!
Should docs cause pain in order to stop a brain tumor grow?
Is God evil for causin' us pain to help us shine n' glow? No!

It's such a shame that good ol' Epicarus isn't here to save you!
Cuz i'm jumpin out of my pew n' beatin you hard black and blue!

I'll power bomb you n' Epicurus so hard, i cause a nefarious primordial chaos!
A blow from Truth_seeker will have you cling to the cross n' confess Jesus is boss!
Like i said Karma keeps track, so i encourage you to make a logical hard attack!
Whack me in my ballsack, jack me in the airsac, i'll turn n' make you see pitch black!
Dodge your swings as i crack n' my punchlines'll feel like brass knuckles when i hit back!

Deut. 7:12 says that if Israel obeyed his commands, he'll show loving-kindness!
Especially you since your stumbling over the darkness cuz of your illogical blindness!
How can this imbecile not see that's free will? my goodness your a logical disgrace!
I'll take a huge philosophy book n' throw it at ya face n' drop that whole bookcase!

Disrespect me by saying my people in cults n' that won't bring good empirical results!
I'll break Atheism apart as i throw insults about their lack of knowledge about cults!
Make you scared to come out n' watch you hide your ideals behind hidden vaults
Make practicing your culture difficult cuz i'm logically beating you to a thousand pulps!


1. Ten commandments were written on stone tablets

2. Rom. 5:1-21



Zmax15 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4


Well i pretty much rapped what i needed to rap. Waiting on Con.


I'm over here having more than one legit problem,
You're flingin' sh*tty rhymes all day from PM to AM,
Whereas I've got all kinds of lyrical forces,
Incomparable to your hideous pace and word discourses

And on the terms of argument your blatantly admitting it,
God created evil how"s that a defense to your argument?
Anybody watching's got to see just what I'm sayin' bout of it,
What does it mean? I win. Nothing should bring about the doubt of it.

We"ve been rapping for a week now and your rhymes are tiring,
But if you think I"m giving up I"m not, you"ll be retiring.
You"re sayin" God"s not evil, but wait, I said he needn"t be,
All I need to do is show he"s for it, you are just feedin" me,

You bring up Deut 7, like your god"s so puking innocent,
And yet you fail to mention those who don"t, can"t, are out of it,
You fail to bring up all those folks burning down in hell,
Burning as we speak forever, whether "not they"ve heard the gospel,

You propose to the natives of the Amazon jungle,
Who have never heard the Bible, God"s system"s really bungled,
That their burning in hell forever"s somehow fair,
It sounds to me like evil to me, looking at the whole affair,

"You will go to hell," god says, "Just because you cannot please us,
Even if you haven"t heard gospel, just for not assuming "Jesus!
"Of course! It was him, though I"ve never heard the name,
"Or his thoughts, or his morals, though I bet they"re pretty sane."

There"s something really messy about your whole freaking Bible,
Filled with contradictions, mixed messages and devils, (1)
Oh, did I say devils, I meant the angels and God
Why do I say that? I think I"ve explained it alright you cod.

I think we"ve both wrapped our rapped rap statements,
So let"s all leave this debate on agreement,
We can argue God"s morality, and from what we may derive,
Just so long as always are sure to get on with our life.


Debate Round No. 5
6 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 6 records.
Posted by numberwang 2 years ago
It means forfeiture
Posted by Zmax15 2 years ago
For the record I have no idea what "FF" is (I'm assuming some fallacy) and cannot for the life of me fine these "Debating sins" though it was a good rap and thanks all for judging.
Posted by numberwang 2 years ago
shadow king thats a crappy vote. 1 round of ff shouldn't be your only reason for voting.
Posted by numberwang 2 years ago
After reading round one Im excited for the rest of this debate.
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Btw judges dissing your opponent is allowed in this lol
Posted by Truth_seeker 2 years ago
Rules before actual rules? For the rap battle there are no rules lol. You just have to rap your argument while battling your opponent at the same time.

I didn't select only Christian judges, I think you can check the settings and see who they are.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by numberwang 2 years ago
Who won the debate:--
Reasons for voting decision: I feel like I would have voted for Con if he had managed to post in all rounds, and rounds 2 and 3 were stronger for con in my opinion, but the FF really discourages me from giving him the full 7. Good debate for both sides.
Vote Placed by ShadowKingStudios 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: FF is one of DDO's 7 Debating Sins
Vote Placed by lannan13 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: This was a close debate, but due to Con's forfeiture and the fact that a ton of his raps didn't even rhyme, I'm going to have to give this debate to Pro. If this were a 7 point system the score would have been 4-3. Con get's spelling due to the one round where Pro didn't rap and had bad grammar and Con would get sources. Pro would get arguments and conduct. Thus this debate goes to Pro. If you need any clarifications of my RFD, feel free to ask.
Vote Placed by JasperFrancisShickadance 2 years ago
Who won the debate:Vote Checkmark-
Reasons for voting decision: I think flow was tied. Con's position was easier so he had an advantage, I think, when rapping but I'm sure it was difficult for both of them to put a regular debate's argument into poetry-type lines. Both had amazing bars. But because of Pro's research and some amazing licks, I'd say he won. The fact that Con forfeited seals it up.