The Instigator
MB29
Pro (for)
Losing
24 Points
The Contender
TheHitchslap
Con (against)
Winning
26 Points

Rap is the worst genre of music.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 16 votes the winner is...
TheHitchslap
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 6/7/2013 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,223 times Debate No: 34591
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (16)

 

MB29

Pro

Definition of worst- Of the poorest quality or the lowest standard.

I will take the pro position, while my opponent will take the con position, which is that rap is not the worst genre of music. First round will be acceptance only.
TheHitchslap

Con

I accept
Debate Round No. 1
MB29

Pro

Thank you for accepting my debate. First of all, there is some good rap out there. However, the vast majority of rap is not good at all. In rap, there is a higher percentage of bad than good, than in any other genre. That is why rap is the worst genre of music out there.

1. Horrible lyrics and subject matter.

One of my biggest criticisms of rap is the subject matter referenced in the songs. Most rap today contains terrible and degrading subject matter: strippers, drinking, degrading women, drugs, and "getting money", just to name a few. Rap glorifies this lifestyle, influencing those who listen in a negative way. For example, the lyrics in Bitches Love Me (Good Kush and Alcohol) by Lil Wayne (http://www.azlyrics.com...)

I'm on that good kush and alcohol
I got some down b*****s I can call
I don't know what I would do without y'all
Imma ball 'til the day I fall (ball, ball, ball, ball)

Yeah, long as my b*****s love me
(Yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah)
I can give a f**k 'bout no hater
Long as my b*****s love me
(Yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah)
(Yeah, yeah)
Yeah, I can give a f**k 'bout no n****a
Long as these b*****s love me

Is there any effort, meaning, morals, or anything of significance in these lyrics? I would go over the character limit giving examples of horrible lyrics. If not referencing these subjects, most rap lyrics are simplistic, make little sense, or are overly egotistical and pompous. Like I said, not all rap is like this, but the greater percentage is.

2. Takes the lowest amount of musical talent.

It takes relatively little musical talent to be a rapper, compared to any other music genre. Rap uses Autotune extremely frequently (see T-Pain for an example), many rappers do not write their own songs, and you obviously do not need singing skills (see the video for an example). No instruments, no knowledge of music theory, or no effort in the lyrics written. Rap is definitely in a lower standard than other genres such as classical or rock.

3. Not about the music produced.

The main goal of rap is not to produce high quality, soul stirring songs. It is to make money, produce an image, and to say you are better than everybody else. The music is "lazy" and uninspired. However, in the videos, you see the half-naked women, the gold jewelry, and the stacks of money. The goal to take money from those who like the image created by these rappers. Sure, the "beat" may be good, but what are you really listening to? Cash-grabbing, lazy, manufactured images and music. Other music genres, such as jazz, grunge, country, classical, blues, etc., make their music the priority more often than not.

These examples show why music is truly "Of the poorest quality or lowest standard". Thank you.
TheHitchslap

Con

My Opponent Already Lost:
He has just conceeded that not all rap is bad as noted, and thus my BOP is already filled, due to the fact that my BOP was only to find a worse genre. Thank you to my opponent!

Free-speech:
What's the point in having free-speech without the license to offend? Secondly he takes the contexts of raps graphic language out of context, first it is a highly rebellious genre in the 80's-90's. This was at the time of Rodney King beatings, the aftermath of Helter-Skelter nonsense Charles Manson was trying to start, and questionable court-cases of OJ Simpson furthering the Caucasian /African issue. Which is why rap turned into what it is today; it was born to be an expression of pain, sorrow, and nastyness. It was born to enable people to express themselves without resorting to stupid stuff.

Delores Tucker and Tupac:
One feminist who criticises rap was Delorse Tucker, who made the same complaints my opponent made. In retort Tupac says this: (see vid)
Essentially the video's message on behalf of the rap scene against women is that self-respect is the highest honor needed in "the game" and furthermore, no one wants to stay in the 'hood' if they can. Those who do by wh*ring themselves out are not worthy of respect and thus they are getting made fun of. Which is why Tupac notes that the end "this is why I wanted you to know why we call dem hoes b!tchez" they don't mean all women, just those who do nothing but try to sleep around for money.

Worse Genre?
Eminem not good enough for you? This album (the eminem show) is the highest all-time selling in the 90's, and Eminem today is the highest selling living artist both digitally and in sheer sales! All his music is in rap, and he has quite the talent in it (videos) did those freestyles straight on the spot unscripted. That takes skill, I ask my opponent to try to do the same in each battle equally as good as Eminem. that doesn't take skill I have no idea what does.

But hey at least you can level a complaint against Rap because you understand the lyrics coming out of the rappers mouth. Try understanding deathmetal, where they don't even sing they just scream, and not even play guitar they smash them, and strum them and claim it's shredding.



But hey, could be worse, all of this could be Justin Beiber ;D


The goal of rap is clearly to show off skills and an appreciation for the english language, unlike that of deathmetal. And it enables for far more expression than any other genre. Clearly rap is NOT the lowest standard, clearly deathmetal is .. can you even call that last video music? Jesus ...
Debate Round No. 2
MB29

Pro

Even though I said that there is some good rap, my next
statement said, "However, the vast majority of rap is not good at all. In rap, there is a higher percentage of bad
than good, than in any other genre. That is why rap is the worst genre of music
out there.
" There are some good qualities in every kind of music, but
rap simply has more bad than good. Yes, Eminem and 2Pac are a part of the good
rap I was referring to. Yet, we are talking about the ENTIRE genre as a whole.
Just because there are a few good players on a football team, for example; if
everyone else on the team is not good at all, the team isn’t good.

Sure, having free speech is all good and all, and you can
offend as much as you want. But instead of choosing a song with a positive
message or with well written lyrics, rappers more often then not chose to rap
about drinking, smoking, getting girls, etc. Bad rappers chose to be lazy and
negative in their music.

“Which is why rap turned into what it is today; it was born to be an expression of pain, sorrow,
and nastyness”

All genres of music have some songs that are expressions of
sorrow and pain, even classical. Also, you know The Beatles? In their day, they
were extremely controversial and nasty. One of their songs was banned in the UK (A Day In
the Life) for a supposed drug reference (http://en.wikipedia.org...),
yet the Beatles are much more superior in musical talent compared to most
rappers. Also, today, modern rap has dropped off their origin of “pain and
sorrow” that you claim, as there is a good amount of rap music today without
any expressions of pain. It’s about a lot of money-getting and drinking rather
than sorrow.

2Pac’s explanation doesn’t really apply to all rap songs.
Watch Juicy J’s Bandz A Make Her Dance or Big Sean’s Dance A$$ on YouTube. Those songs are
seeming to glorify strippers or wh*res, not speaking out against them. (I won’t
post the videos due to their inappropriateness for this website)

Yes, Eminem can freestyle, and he isn’t a bad rapper.
However, it doesn’t make all of rap good. Also, I can’t accept your facts about
his record sales, seeing as there is no source.

I personally don’t care for or like death metal. However,
you didn’t really give a straight fact about how death metal is worse than rap.
You’re only argument is-

“Try understanding deathmetal, where
they don't even sing they just scream, and not even play guitar they smash
them, and strum them and claim it's shredding”

If you wish to understand the lyrics to the song you showed,
they’re here http://www.sing365.com....
Compare those lyrics to those of Dance A$$ (http://www.azlyrics.com...),
and I see more meaning and effort in the death metal lyrics. Also, not all
death metal is screaming only. Some songs do have singing in them. Also,
screaming does require skill, it actually takes a lot of training to scream
sing.

They actually are playing a song, an example guitar TAB of
that certain song is here http://tabs.ultimate-guitar.com...

All music is a form of expression. A guitar or an opera
singer expresses just as much emotion as a rapper can. However, the quality of
the ideas expressed in rap music is usually lesser than in other genres, and
usually, rap today has no morals and no true, heartfelt emotion.

Once again, thank you.

TheHitchslap

Con

My opponents argument rests on the fallacy of faulty generalization. Mainly that the sample of rap music he has selected is degrading and aweful, and thus generally speaking most Rap music has those traits.

Problems With This Argument:
Essentially, my opponent is trying to make an argument to have it both ways, first, he is trying to account for a BOP he knows he cannot prove, that all rap music is degrading, and furthermore, that simply because the music he selects is like that, that generally speaking, most rap music is like that. He cannot have it both ways, because this means he filled my BOP for me, that if I find one genre worse than Rap, or show that rap is not the lowest standard in music, then I win, which he has done for me. Opponent, you cannot have it both ways, either rap music is awerful or it is not! And thus I have already won. However ...

Strawman!
My opponent compares rap music to a football team. I do not know how to tell my opponent this, but newsflash! Rap and football are not the same, and thus the argument does not make sense. Rap is individualistic (not team based) and is an art. Football is teambased and is a sport. Thus, rap is NOT like a football team. Try again.

Rap has No Positive Message
(See videos)



What? Plenty of positive messages in their music! Nas is advocating for children to go to school, in fact most rappers are making it cool to be successful now! It's cool to get into business for rapping, and it's cool to try and make money and to make investments. And sometimes, rap has one distinct advantage over other forms of music: you learn lessons from the school of hard knocks you cannot learn yourself. Or at least you learn without putting yourself through harms way. The life lessons of 50 cent, when your having a tough day, just think this man got shot 9 times and still lived. You can appreciate life way more now! Sometimes you gotta take lessons from other people, and this is what they offer. And yes they do rap about presteige, whats wrong with saying "I am successful! And guess what? You can be too! All this can be yours!"? The music is meant to be relateable, and claiming they more often than not choose to rap about smoking, or drinking, or girls, and that's it is a bare assertion fallacy. They do but they also rap about school, tough lives, lessons, experiences, etc...

Beatles:
Just because you say their better musically does not mean they actually are, again bare assertion fallacy. And if anything your showing a correlation to controversial music and success, so was Pink Floyd, Frankie Goes to Hollywood, The Prodigy, Slayer, Ozzy Osborne, Rage Against the Machine, The Kingsmen, Judas Preist, Elvis Presley, N.W.A, etc... Therefore, we've already had this conversation, espescialy if you were in the 50's and saw Elvis, you would have thought it was disgusting him shaking his hips and claimed he had no musical talent, while saying "Now Lead Belly .. HE had talent...". It's all the same, Rap is just a different genre of music, but like Elvis, and all the predecessors before Rap, not all of it is of low standards like you claim as history shows.

Dance @$$ and Make Her Dance
Both those soungs are actually pretty good .. THANKS! =)
And they're dance songs .. whats wrong with them? They glorify bums. You don't like girls bums? They want you to dance or "shake your @$$" and how dare you! Not all girls are wh*res! Some just like to shake some booty!

Ain't it Funny the Best Rapper is White and the Best Golfer is Black?
Eminems list of legendary stuff: http://en.wikipedia.org...
Listed top 100 greatest artists of all time
Most streams in history
MTV claimed 7th biggest Icon in pop music
200 nominated awards, got 75, and even did something no one else has ever done: dissed the grammys and they gave him one on the song he made fun of them for!
Best rapper alive by Vibe
Soundscan claims he is the number 1 selling artist of the decade
The list goes on and on .. and on ... and on ... care to try and claim rap sucks again?

Vs Deathmetal
What proof is there that the dude screaming for Zao is better than .. me? I'm still waiting for my opponent to make a freestyle like he said because it was easy.

And finally, your right all music is a form of expression, but you contradict yourself here, if that expression is good, and rap is a genre of that expression, then the logical argument follows that rap is obviously good music then, otherwise, you cannot claim all good music has expression, then exclude rap simply because you do not like it. You have to focus on the use of ceteris Paribus here (all things held equal)

At least rappers ...
respect their dead! That's right! Talk about of poor quality at least rap does more good than harm, like the suicide of Per Ohlin for example, where bandmates use his dead body as an image on their album! And even encouraged him to committ suicide! Talk about low standard. And if a higher standard is singing, then screaming id obviously not that high a standard when all things are considered, hell even in rap some rappers sing!
http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 3
MB29

Pro

I'm fairly certain my BOP is not to prove that all rap is degrading. The topic of the debate is that when compared to other genres of music, rap is inferior or the "worst." I do not need to prove that something is 100% bad for it to be considered the worst, or 100% good for it to be considered the best! If I was looking at some cars on a lot, for example, and I say "This is the best car on the lot. I don't really like the color, but everything else is great!" Then somebody says, "Well, you just said the color isn't good. You just proved it can't be the best!", then that somebody is wrong. In COMPARISON to the other cars, this certain car has better features, and is therefore better, despite the wrong color. I will say it again, rap has more cons than pros than in any other genre, and is therefore the worst genre of music. This is despite the good present.


My football statement was an analogy, or a "similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar" It was an analogy basically stating good doesn't always override the bad. The two things being compared don't have to be identical for an analogy to make sense.


You claim that rap is either all awful or all good, there is no "middle ground." First, why CAN'T there be middle ground? It's the same as only giving an A+ or an F grade on a test. Also, since you claim that rap as a whole can only be good or bad, and you say it is good, what about the video I put up? It is truly awful and is a 100% serious attempt by Froggy Fresh to get into the rap industry. So if this song is awful, and Eminem is good, then there can be a middle ground, with some good and some bad.


I'm not claiming, "Look, this one rap song has bad messages, all rap is like this." I have listened to a lot of rap (not always willingly; some of my relatives play rap songs when I'm around, for example, or I hear them around a public place). I hear many more songs with bad messages than songs with good messages. Sure, some rap songs have positive messages like you showed. Yet, what about the three songs I have mentioned in the previous rounds as having bad messages and lyrics (B*tches Love Me, Dance A$$, Bandz A Make Her Dance), or songs by Wiz Khalifa glorifying smoking, drinking and b*tches (Hustlin', Smokin Drink, or On My Level for example)? Or 2Chainz's "Birthday Song", where strippers dance throughout the video, and all he wants for his birthday is a "big booty hoe"? I could go on and on with songs with bad messages. (Once again, I won't post the videos due to inappropriate content).


You claim that rap promotes being successful. Some songs might in the proper way, but that message is corrupted when you have Wiz Khalifa rapping about going to clubs and spending money on weed and alcohol, or Juicy J rapping about spending hundreds of dollars on strippers. When rappers say "I am successful! And guess what? You can be too! All this can be yours!" this is what the listener wants to go out and achieve. These images are shown as what "success" is, not becoming a businessman or overcoming challenges.


If these songs with bad messages are just "dance songs"as you claim, then this is a point in my favor. It's saying, "It doesn't matter what the quality of the song is, or the message it gives, as long as it has a catchy beat, its ok." Seems low quality and effortless to me. And nowhere did I ever say that all women are wh*res.


If I give evidence as to why the Beatles do have more musical talent, than it isn't an assertion fallacy. They played their instruments, sang, and wrote their own songs. They also needed a greater knowledge of music theory to write their music, such as in harmonization. A rapper may write their own music and rap, but they don't really need a lot of music theory knowledge, or knowledge on instrument playing.


Sure, Eminem has a lot of accomplishments, I give him that. He is a good, meaningful rapper. But as I said before, one good thing doesn't override the many bad things in the rap genre. And he got a little help with some of his awards due to rap being mainstream, such as top selling artist of the decade. I'm not saying it isn't an accomplishment, but you won't see the best opera singer or the best classical composer get top selling artist, since it isn't mainstream. In the end, he doesn't suck, many other rappers do.


So you're saying you can scream sing just as good as a professional? That's an ignorant statement, quite frankly. Watch the second video . You need a technique to properly scream sing, improper screaming damages and tears your vocal chords, and you can't scream sing without a great amount of practice. Also, at the end, the singer actually sings along with the screaming, singing pretty decently. Like I said, not all of it is pure screaming. Also, I never said freestyling was easy. I can't freestyle without practice. You can't scream sing without practice.

Since there is more bad expression than good expression in rap, overall, rap has a worse overall expression.

You claim that they don't respect their dead. You just made an assertion fallacy yourself, that all death metal bands don't respect their dead because one band didn't. Your claim is disproven with Mitch Lucker, a singer of a death metal band that died in a motorcycle accident. A candlelight vigil with 300-400 fans and family was held in his honor, and funds were set up to help his daughter. Seems respectful to me.
http://en.wikipedia.org...

Conclusion

Thank you to for accepting this debate and making it possible.

Vote for Pro, since there is more overall bad than good in rap. Rap doesn't need to be 100% bad to be considered the worst. Also, Con hasn't proved that another genre is truly worse than rap, as all claims about death metal have been disproved. I wish I could say more, but I'm going over the character limit. Thank you.









TheHitchslap

Con

Why Did I Win?
My opponent takes a sample size, and claims they all share one characteristic; that all the lyrics are putrid, and every single song in rap is of the lowest standard, yet conviently claims not all rap is bad. He literally admitted that I won this debate because if he could have it the other way, he not only question begs, but commits a fallacy of faulty generalization.

I argued properly...

Fallacy of Faulty Generalization:
Even worse, instead of actually fixing his argument, he just continues to try and argue his fallacy is legitimate! Then he proceeds to strawman the argument, by giving two examples in the form of an analogy (via football and vehicles) which have nothing to do with this debate. As I have shown, music is too individualistic for it to be sutiable for football, and vehicles are too uniform, while music is more subjective. While most teens on the net hate Justin Beiber, there is not doubt that he has a massive following. However, unlike Justin Beiber (I personally cannot stand him) I think we'd all agree a car like a pontiac GTO 67' is a sexxxy car! (See xXx video) ;(Imabench don't get too excited just because it says XXX LOL!) Therefore the two "analogies" my opponent selected were actually strawmans, he never refuted my claim, he just put my position as something easier for him to actually counter, but didn't actually counter!

All Good/Bad? NOPE!
I never claimed you can only make a statement of music only being all good or bad, only that your argument was weak. And in addressing this claim, actually, I cannot tell you (unlike you) what is good or bad music today. In fact, music taste is so subjective, what I may find appealing you may not, which in my claim, I maintain you cannot possibly conclude that rap is the worst, that may be your opinion, but it isn't the objective fact. And on the contrary with the popularity of Biggie Smalls, Eminem, or even Tupac, I'd say even the mainstream would have to agree with me on this one. Music is not the worse. In fact Froggy Fresh was a joke vid posted on college humor, and the huffington post! This is a joke, espescially when he mockingly signs with Bad Boy Records.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org...;

The Content:
Because most of those songs do not go mainstream. And of those that actually do go mainstream, they're glorifying hard work, determination, and what it means to be a successful investor (as I have shown). Who as a heterosexual doesn't want big bootied b!tches? Why can't someone be proud of their success and again as I noted say "Hey look at me! You can do it too?" My opponent never actually countered this and thus is a dropped argument. As for smoking, that was always a prestigious thing, espescially with cigars! So who cares? Nothing new..

What are they showing?
Yes, they show them having fun at the club. That doesn't mean in their album they don;t have one song of them "coming up" in the world. Hopsin is an excellent example of this, and his life struggles with ADD, same as Eminem being the white kid who got picked on, or Biggie Smalls' Juicy. ;
It's like saying "how dare that CEO run around in a suit! Doesn't he know he is promoting everyone wearing a suit? What AWEFUL TASTE!" It is absurd to speak such a way about glorifying presteige.

Dance Songs Rebuttal:
It is just dance songs, where no one is acting seriously, and in fact no one under 21 can listen to what is going on in the club! That's not a point in your favor, but in mine, due to you claiming on the basis of nothing (unlike say the structure of a beat being weak) that rap sucks. You just claim "it sounds aweful to me thus it is aweful" which what is aweful to you isn't to me, and vice versa.

Beatles:
No sales records? No medals or trophies? No top 100's? Yeah .. bare assertion fallacy. I'm not contending that they're not good, but that you've given insufficent evidence as to why we should trust you! Why are they that good? What accalodes do they have? And so what? Mozart did the same, does that mean anyone who listens to classical can say the Beatles suck? No! (I noted this earlier with Elvis and he dropped that argument too!)

Screaming Actually is Harmful!
My point is again proven, deathmetal is indeed the wqorse genre of music, it can even cause physical harm! That doesn't take skill, tjhat's like saying it takes skill to fall off my bike and break my arm! It does not! And death metal, and Justin Beiber are still terrible genres of music!

Swedish DeathMetal:
Noo, I never asserted that all bands do this, but that as part of the "death" scene some may even dececrate the dead! They have an obsession with it, and even infringe on the liberties of chruches by burning them and promoting hate. That is harmful! As the majority of sweden went through this stage! Thus deathmetal is worse.

Conclusion
Fallacies after fallacies, I gave one genre and one artist that was worse than Rap, I showed that deathmetal requires little skill, that it is physically harmful, and that they have even known to harm others. My opponent dropped my Elvis argument, I had no drops, and soldi rebuttals on sound logic.

Vote against fear and prejudice

Vote FOR ME!

or I'll scream ;) oh wait .. isn't that music? Oh yeah ... that's because IT ISN'T! :D
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
@Calculatedr1sk: I believe it has to do with pro having met his burden, and the setup of this type of argument causing con's best counter to be shifting the blame to another genre.
Posted by calculatedr1sk 3 years ago
calculatedr1sk
RoyLatham and MassiveDump, I'm confused at why BoP migrated onto Con in your minds, that he must show that there is a worse genre than rap. I was under the impression that instigator/Pro generally has the burden of proof. Can you elaborate on this?
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
---VOTING RFD---
S&G (tied): Mistakes noted, but no Jar-Jar speak. Please use spell check next time.
CONDUCT (tied): As much as I felt pro's was better (not linking ultra offensive stuff, plus con's lies), it's not by enough of a degree considering its impact to argument.
ARGUMENT (pro): The very question is a generalization, playing the averages (thus cannot be faulted for being such)... "first, he is trying to account for a BOP he knows he cannot prove, that all rap music is degrading,"-con nice straw man, but the resolution has nothing to do with degrading; merely being the lowest quality genre of music. "yet conviently claims not all rap is bad. He literally admitted that I won this debate"-con that argument had already been badly shot down, pro not HATING all rap music, has nothing to do with proving the resolution. And much to my amazement, pro managed to defend Death Metal (had con shifted the argument to Death Metal, I think it's defense would have failed, but it was too small of a point).
SOURCES (pro): Enough with the wiki (find your sources within it, and link to where it got it's info). First pro used a better variety of sources. Second con sabataged himself with sources that were dirrectly harmful to his own argument; such as a rare good piece of death metal (I could understand the lyrics, barely... and the accompanying music had nice symmetry), when he should have properly stacked the deck in his favor with a piece of trash. Con's 2pac song that I had to shut off when it used an insulting set of lyrics over and over again, reminding me of Justin Bieber chanting "baby;" again select sources that are favorable to your argument! Look at pro's death metal guy explaining the complexity of screaming for an example (plus it being informative, therefore objective instead of subjective to taste).
Posted by Harbinger 3 years ago
Harbinger
Rap is demonic.
Posted by Ragnar 3 years ago
Ragnar
Too sleepy to properly compare enough for a vote... However con's round 2 attempt to claim victory, just because pro doesn't hate all rap music, was a pretty low note.

Anyway I'll finish reading tomorrow, and probably vote con if he brings up euro-death-metal or otherwise indicates there is music that is a music genre on average worse than rap (if the argument stays on rap music, it'll take quite the arguments due to proving rap music as good would not nullify the resolution).
16 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Vote Placed by larztheloser 3 years ago
larztheloser
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Total points awarded:32 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro had BOP. He provided a decent case that much rap was worse, notwithstanding his impressively bad structure. His other args were there but I felt they needed a bit more analysis, and con's counter-points eventually parried them. This was sufficient because pro could not be expected to analyse every single song ever written. Con's free speech and difficulty material was prima face irrelevant, being concerned with the right to rap rather that its usual quality. More causal links were needed. Con's material that some rap had positive messages was much better. The faulty generalisation stuff was OK but too late. The fact that con used multiple approaches definitely worked in his favor, but limited the analysis provided on each. Con's deathmetal countermodel was much too late and not helpful. Ultimately con's scattergun approach undid him, as I felt pro was able to provide much more analysis into what the negative messages of rap were than pro's case for the positive. 3:2 aff win.
Vote Placed by phantom 3 years ago
phantom
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I guess it's on me to break the tie. I think pro was pretty selective. Rap uses language to express ideas that are often positive and creative. Sure, some of rap is just about money and whores, and pro may not like it's language, but first, that's very selective, as said. There's much of rap not like that. Pro even admitted that the biggest and highest selling rapper is part of the good rap. Secondly, as con noted, it's somewhat subjective to criticize rap for that as bands that we don't see as controversial now days, were very much so in their time. Con wins namely because pro made massive generalizations based upon a select number of rappers and because pro's criticisms were largely subjective and not much more than his opinion.
Vote Placed by Smithereens 3 years ago
Smithereens
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro in this debate made a subjective appeal to that which he thought was bad. His definition did not match his arguments. By saying that the definition of worst is the lowest quality or lowest standard, pro is obliged to provide a standard that can be used in this debate. Personal taste is not a good standard. Pro for examples said that rap is bad because of all the swearing, yet Con stated that swearing made it higher quality due to freedom of speech. In the absence of a more objective standard to appeal to for Pro to establish Rap as being universally 'bad,' there wasn't any real way for him to affirm the resolution. Con therefore wins the debate.
Vote Placed by gordonjames 3 years ago
gordonjames
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: CON had an easy challenge because of the wording of the resolution "rap is the worst" . . . PRO stated "there is some good rap out there" PRO also stated that "The main goal of rap is not to produce high quality, soul stirring songs. It is to make money" - This is both a judgment on the motives of all rappers, and it is unsubstantiated. It also presumes that producers of some other genre of music are doing it for the public good or some other non monetary reason. Personally, I am not a fan of rap. I like melodic music more than exclusively rhythm .
Vote Placed by Contra 3 years ago
Contra
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro provided a more thorough case. His arguments included numerous songs and examples. The analogies used on Pro's side were appropriate. Con almost came forth with a case, but it was too incoherent and incomplete. Additionally, Con became sidetracked several times. Furthermore, some of Con's points (rap promotes success) were not proven adequately. Additionally, I wasn't pleased with organization or the spelling on either side of the debate, and the debate unfortunately was somewhat repetitive. And to be honest, both Froggy Fresh and the deathmetal music was awful in my subjective opinion.
Vote Placed by calculatedr1sk 3 years ago
calculatedr1sk
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: For such a subjective topic as music, it is difficult to know what to make of ideas like "worst". Even the accepted definition "of the poorest quality or the lowest standard" doesn't get us anywhere because how are we to measure quality? Popularity and profitability are the best proxies I can use to estimate quality, and they are imperfect to be sure. But it falls in favor of Eminem, as Con pointed out. How then could rap be the worst form if it has produced the top living performer? Pro's post of Froggy Fresh backfired on me, because I ended up finding myself immensely entertained, nodding my head even as I laughed hysterically at his 400 houses and his 400 mouses. Con's defense of rap and his attack on metal was overall not very convincing. He dubiously accused Pro of many fallacies and concessions. But BoP was on Pro, not Con, and I never saw anything sufficiently convincing from Pro's side.
Vote Placed by MassiveDump 3 years ago
MassiveDump
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: For once, I agree with Roy. Con never showed an example of a genre that could be considered the worst genre of music, rather than rap. Con did a great job explaining why rap was good, but not explaining why rap is not still the worst.
Vote Placed by 1Historygenius 3 years ago
1Historygenius
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro did not fulfill his BOP here, which was important.
Vote Placed by Siege 3 years ago
Siege
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Very shaky counter-argument from Con. Though Pro did not do enough to change my opinion on this matter, he certainly did enough to win here
Vote Placed by RoyLatham 3 years ago
RoyLatham
MB29TheHitchslapTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Rap can have some merit and still be worse than every other genre, if the other genres have less merit. Con needed to argue that some other genre is worse, but he didn't do that. He suggested deathmetal, but didn't follow through with a case. Con only argued that Rap having some merit leaves open the theoretical possibility of a worse genre.