The Instigator
trawson55
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Danielle
Con (against)
Winning
19 Points

Rap should not be considered art or music, and the "rappers" should not be considered artists!

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
Danielle
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 12/12/2011 Category: Arts
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 7,174 times Debate No: 19811
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (7)
Votes (4)

 

trawson55

Pro

Resolved: Rap should not be considered art or music, and the "rappers" should not be considered artists!

Clarification: What I am trying to state is that Rap should not be categorized as music or art and the "rappers" should not be categorized as artists.

Rules:

1. Be respectful, not extreme criticism during arguments or in comments, though some criticism such as what would have helped is always allowed as it helps improve the debater's skill.
2. Vote honestly as to who won and put a detailed reason as to why you voted as you did (this is not a rule but rather a request)
3. If you use a source that isn't your personal knowledge,, site it either in the comments section or in your argument.
4. Do your best and Enjoy!

Argument:

As Pro I am against rappers being considered artists and their so called music "rap" should not be considered art or music.

To begin I will define rap:
Slang . blame or punishment, especially for a crime.
Slang . a criminal charge: a murder rap.
(http://dictionary.reference.com...)

So as you can see the word rap has a lot to do with crime and punishment and even murder, so why should this so called music made by "rappers" have such a word as this in there? It is also easy to see why the "rap music" has such things as gang violence, drug$, $ex, alcohol, and pretty much every curse word imagined including not so appropriate nicknames for the female gender and also the now popular and inappropriate word for dark-skinned people (I believe everyone knows what I refer too) are uttered constantly.

Here is a piece of the lyrics for one of these "rap" songs:

Lil Wayne's She Will

I tell her now gon' pop that pu$$y for a real n!gga
I already know that life is deep, but I still dig her
N!ggas is jealous, but really I could care less
I'm in Hell's Kitchen with an apron and a hairnet
Devil on my shoulder, the Lord as my witness
So on my Libra scale, I'm weighing sins and forgiveness
What goes around comes around like a hula hoop
Karma is a b!tch? Well just make sure that b!tch is beautiful
Life on the edge, I'm dangling my feet
I tried to pay attention but attention paid me
Haters can't see me: nose-bleed seats
And today I went shopping and talk is still cheap
I rock to the beat of my drum set
I been at the top for a while and I ain't jump yet
But I'm Ray Charles to the bull$hit
Now jump up on that d!ck and do a full split!

You can see the sexual sense of this song in just the first verse. The first line and last line are extraordinarily dirty as you can see, "pop that pu$$y for a real n!gga" and "now jump on that d!ck and do a full split".

Do we really want to consider this art and music for the children of our nation to freely listen to as they wish? This song is dirty and that is only the first verse as i said before. There are plenty more verses to this song that i wouldnt even consider reading or even glancing at. The teens and other kids around me in schools listen to this "music" 24/7 and they act like they are going to go join a gang as soon as they are out of high school. some of them dont even think about going to college. The generation i now live in is'nt as respectable as it should have been. todays influences are strong on these kids, and so far good influences have been lacking.

Rap is a bad influence and todays kids have been raised to it. The mentioning of gang's being all that and violence being an everyday thing it is no wonder gang violence has increased dramatically. Rap could even be considered the gangs new recruiter. Here are some statistics of gang violence in 2011:

1.Approximately 772,500 people in the United States belong to gangs. This number tends to grow every year, especially in those cities that have more than 25,000 people living in them. Some statistics have shown that there was an 8% drop between 1999 and 2000 but overall gang violence continues to grow.
2.In Los Angeles 59% of all homicides are gang related. This is true of 53% of all homicides in Chicago. Last year, there were 698 gang related homicides in just these two cities alone. In 130 other cities that have a population of at least 100,000 people there were only 637 homicides.3.More than 24,500 gangs are currently active within the United States. This is a 5% decrease in the number of gangs that were in existence in 1999. However, cities who have a population of more than 25,000 people have reported a small increase in the number of gangs that are causing gang violence within their cities.
4.Forty-five percent of cities that have a population of at least 25,000 people have seen an increase in gang violence over the past two years. In cities with a population of between 50,000 and 99,999 people, there has been a 37% increase in gang violence. Those cities with a population of 100,000 people have reported a 69% increase in gang violence.
5.Approximately 47% of gang members are Hispanic, 31% are African American, 13% are white and 7% are Asian. This is one of the few statistics that seemingly remains fairly steady over the years regardless of the rise and fall in the other statistics about gang violence.
(http://www.mademan.com...)

So as you can see gang violence is a big problem right now, and with the amount of rappers singing about it and how its "bad@ss" its no wonder the crime rates and gang activity have increased. We need to make a stand against this supposed form of music! It will be hard but worth it!

For these reasons i urge you to vote Pro!
Danielle

Con

Thanks, Pro. Hopefully I can change my opponent's mind about his overly critical and narrow-minded view of rap music. I will begin by responding to Pro's 4 arguments, and then providing contentions of my own...

1. The word rap by definition has to do with crime and punishment.

While Pro provides 2 definitions of the word rap, he blatantly ignores the second listed definition from the dictionary. This is intellectually deceitful as he intentionally discluded the definition that would undermine this argument all-together. Included in the defnition of rap is: to utter sharply or vigorously; to rap out a command [1].

Uttering out sharply is indeed what "rapping" is. Hip-hop refers to the subculture including rap music, break dancing, graffiti art, etc. Rap music refers to music in which the artist raps (sharply delivers) usually in rhyme schemes over a particular instrumental. Nonetheless, the point is that this argument has been negated, as rap does not necessarily refer to crime or any particular theme, per se. Instead, it has to do with a tone and is merely a descriptor of word delivery.


2. Pro says rap music talks a lot about violence, sex, drugs and other negative or potentially inapporpriate themes.

A) First, rap music is in no way the only genre of music that explores controversial themes. Rock music in particular is known to be just as crude. For instance, one of rock legends' Ac/Dc's most famous songs is called Big Balls which is not so subtly a sexual reference [2]. Sometimes songs may be less subtle but still have mature themes. Lady Gaga's chart topping pop song "Poker Face" is a song about being able to keep a poker face on so that she can be with a man, but sexually fantasize about a woman [3]. In other words, there are questionable lyrics and themes across ALL music genres, so it's unfair and non-sensical to single out rap music specifically. Even country songs curse [4]. If you say rap is inappropriate because of the language and content they use, then this must extend across all genres.

B) Not everyone is a parrot. In listening to rap music I hear "the N word" a lot, but that doesn't mean I go around repeating it in my everyday life. A parent could easily teach their child that the words they're hearing are not appropriate everyday language. The media provides entertainment in many forms. Just because people shoot guns in movies doesn't mean kids should imitate what they get out of the arts industry for entertainment value.

C) Rappers are entertainers and do not necessarily live the lifestyle they rap about. Eminem for instance talks about killing people in many of his songs, yet if those lyrics were remotely true he would have been in jail a long time ago. Likewise, actors who kill in the moves do not necessarily exemplify the traits they personify on screen for entertainment value. Pro doesn't mention that celebrities of every kind are not always the perfect role models, nor should they have to be.

3. Children shouldn't be exposed to this kind of music...

A) It is up to a child's parents to protect what they are exposed to. Parents cannot protect children forever, and eventually people should be free to make their own choices about what kind of music they like and want to hear.

B) Exposure to these themes is not necessarily inappropriate. These are the facts of life. In fact many people are exposed to certain themes early on, and rap music is art that helps express and reflect their experience. Some songs such as "Hip Hop Saved My Life" suggest rap music helped profusely as an outlet and potential escape from a potentially dangerous alternative [5].

C) Censorship is bad for society at large.

D) Censorship also stifles both creative and personal expression. More about this later when I talk about the meaning of art...

4. Rap is a bad influence; it advocates gang recruitment.

A) Anything could be an influence/catalyst propelling one to make bad choices. It would be wrong to single out rap music and ignore all of the potential good of the genre.

B) Pro hasn't proven that it's rap music specifically which has led to the statics he described. In fact, there are a plethora of other more reasonable contributions, including but not limited to poverty rates and other economic turmoil that directly cause gang activity.

C) Many Catholic priests have been known to molest young children [6]. Would Pro suggest that religion is therefore inappropriate for children because some people associated with religion specifically have not always made the right choices? As I said, parents are responsible for raising their children - not the entertainment industry. And people are responsible for their own choices which are influenced by everything around them (not just rap music).

D) A lot of rap music promotes POSITIVE themes. Many rappers specifically encourage staying in school in their songs [7], and some like Lauryn Hill are known to encourage and empower women in a positive way. Pro ignores in his analysis all of the positive influences and messages rap can/does have, focusing solely on the negative which is dishonest and unfair.

== Arguments For the Con ==

Art is the product or process of deliberately arranging items in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions and intellect [9]. Music is a form of art, and music refers to a medium of sound vs. silence. It's common elements are pitch (which governs melody and harmony), rhythym (associated with concepts such as tempo, meter and articulation), dynamics and the sonic qualities of timbre and texture [10].

Rap music deals with every single aspect of "music." At it's basic core, rapping refers to delivering words set to a specific beat or set of beats. Therefore, rhythm, tempo, meter and articulation are certainly important. The texturing of vocals over the instrumental as well as other possible harmonies (such as when you have a collaboration of 2 or more artists) play a significant role. Rap songs frequently sample instrumentals from other genres, including but not limited to jazz, classical, rock and more. Therefore, if you argue that those are legitimate genres of music, rap must be also.

Like all art, rap expresses emotions and ideas. People tend to express their ideas and emotions through words, and rap probably has more words per song than any other genre. It is a legitimate form of cultural and artistic expression. Since I've already proven that music constitutes as art, and rap music is in fact music (it contains all the elements of music), then therefore rap artists are in fact artists.

However again I'd like to reiterate the purpose of art. It exists as a mode of expression from one's individual conscious experiences and interpretations. It is culturally and psychologically invaluable. Rap is an art form, and all art can be used for positive means. To "rap" merely means to speak in a rhythmic tone over music, and said style can be used to depict a variety of themes including very positive ones. Music has been known to positively influence people in many ways, including rap. We can not single out and focus specifically and only on the bad.

[1] http://dictionary.reference.com...
[2] http://www.lyricsdomain.com...
[3] http://www.examiner.com...
[4] http://www.lyricsfreak.com...
[5] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[7] http://www.rapbasement.com...
[8] http://www.softcup.com...
[9] http://en.wikipedia.org...
[10] http://en.wikipedia.org...
Debate Round No. 1
trawson55

Pro

I thank my opponent Danielle for this amazing argument. This topic is one of many that I have been questioning and using on this site to find out what other people think. I guess my musical taste being a lot different from most teens ad such these days has altered my view of rap music. But as I said I use this site to find out other peoples views. I have seen Danielle's view and I appreciate what it is you have said. I may even try listening to some rap music, at least give it a try.

"Never judge a book by it's cover"
Danielle

Con

I appreciate my opponent's concession and kind words.

Please extend all of my arguments.

I will also include a source that lays out a handful of positive rap songs, or rap songs with a political, emotional or otherwise serious message. This will help prove that rap is indeed a legitimate medium of art, as it conveys one's interpretation of their conscious experience.

Rap Music = Music = Art.

http://hiphopnews.yuku.com...
Debate Round No. 2
trawson55

Pro

trawson55 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Please extend my arguments...
Debate Round No. 3
trawson55

Pro

trawson55 forfeited this round.
Danielle

Con

Thanks for this debate, I guess.
Debate Round No. 4
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by vmpire321 5 years ago
vmpire321
lol... Seems like the debate is already over XD
Posted by Spritle 5 years ago
Spritle
R.I.P Biggie!
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
Hmm... Seems actually pretty good. When this debate is over I might have different oppinions.
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
Hey! Ok that may be true... Ill read it right now then.
Posted by PeacefulChaos 5 years ago
PeacefulChaos
He rarely reads anyone's arguments, lol :D
Posted by Danielle 5 years ago
Danielle
You didn't read my round, I see.
Posted by kyro90 5 years ago
kyro90
I think that rap isnt real music either.... no offense I just dont think it is. My oppinion of music is a song that has meaning not just for fun and to maybe hurt people...
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by WriterSelbe 5 years ago
WriterSelbe
trawson55DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:06 
Reasons for voting decision: Forfeit.
Vote Placed by GeoLaureate8 5 years ago
GeoLaureate8
trawson55DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:05 
Reasons for voting decision: Obvious win for Con.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Maikuru
trawson55DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro rightfully conceded and forfeited.
Vote Placed by Man-is-good 5 years ago
Man-is-good
trawson55DanielleTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: It's pretty obvious who won here. Danielle blew all of trawson55's points out of the water, noting his prejudice in choosing SPECIFIC definitions for rap, failure to show that rap music was the only factor that lead to gang violence (Con's suggestion about "poverty rates and other economic turmoil that directly cause gang activity" is valid, after all), and so forth, along with her own case, where rap shares much of the trappings of music, the latter itself an "art". Loss of conduct for forfeits