The Instigator
Sitara
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
Dragonfang
Con (against)
Winning
15 Points

Rape and murder are proof of evil.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Dragonfang
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/4/2013 Category: Arts
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,498 times Debate No: 37356
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (11)
Votes (3)

 

Sitara

Pro

Rape and murder are evil, therefore they are proof of evil. Anyone who says otherwise does not know the facts. Le defintion de evil: http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Dragonfang

Con

So my opponent challenged me on the light of the argument in this thread, read it for more context:

http://www.debate.org...


First, I do not support murder or rape. In fact, I do believe in objective morality personally as a theist. However, that is something for my opponent to prove. If my opponent switches her anti-theist views from the thread above, I hold the right to switch my views for the purpose of this debate as well.

As we can understand from the debate's title. my opponent is referring to absolute or objective evil. So this is basically a debate about objective morality. My opponent needs to demonstrate the feat of proving that evil actually exists. Meaning that rape & murder are always morally evil regardless of what other people think, emotions, or personal opinions.

Of course, the burden of proof fully resides with my opponent. My only obligation is to undermine her arguments. The problem is my opponent calls her resolution "facts", which is problematic since subjective claims are not fact, different cultures, societies, religions etc... have different views on what is evil or good. Furthermore, rape and murder must also be considered evil within the animal kingdom. Yet, a lion would believe that sinking it's fangs on a zebra is good because it fills it's belly. Sure, it is bad for the zebra, it is good for the lion, but it is not evil. Why shouldn't the same thing go for humans?

Calling something evil is a construct by societies. The Nazis believe that they are right. If the Nazis won and indoctrinated children, the majority of the next generation will believe that the Nazi Reich is good. Therefore, the Nazi Reich will be good in eyes of the society.
Furthermore, morality can be simply attributed to evolution. Even if that is the case, murder and rape are not evil. Even if you evolved a morality that is against murder and rape, what about others who didn't? Maybe future generations will evolve to believe that murder and rape are good. Also, what is wrong with survival of the fittest?
Debate Round No. 1
Sitara

Pro

My opponant needs to show me exactly where I accused him/her of supporting rape and murder. I just said that because rape and murder exist, and they are evil, that they are conclusive proof of the existance of evil. No backtracking allowed. If you think rape and murder are evil, you think that evil exists. You can in no way have it both ways. Stop trying to be Mitt Romney and make up your mind. Muah!
Dragonfang

Con

I never accused you of accusing me of supporting rape or murder.
Now you argument can be summed as such:

1- Rape and murder exists.
2- Rape and murder are evil.
C: Therefore, evil exists.


I call this argument question begging. The second premises is an extraordinary claim that requires as much proof as the conclusion. Please construct logical steps that leads to the second premise.


I remind you that the burden of proof is onto you. You need to provide rational and valid arguments or proof for you resolution.
Thinking that unicorns exists doesn't mean that they exist.
Debate Round No. 2
Sitara

Pro

I am not begging any question. I am presenting facts.
Dragonfang

Con

You are assuming something is true without presenting logical basis. That is called an opinion.

You still need to maintain your burden of proof, and present a structural argument for you claim regarding evil. (1)
My counter argument remains unchallenged.


(1) http://www.iep.utm.edu...
Debate Round No. 3
Sitara

Pro

Wrong. I am presenting facts. If rape and murder are not always evil, you have no right to whine if it happens to you.
Dragonfang

Con

Definition of FACT (1)
3
: the quality of being actual : actuality <a question of fact hinges on evidence>
4
a : something that has actual existence <space exploration is now a fact>
b : an actual occurrence <prove the fact of damage>
5
: a piece of information presented as having objective realit



Evil not existing is more of a fact as I have presented unchallenged arguments.




(1) http://www.merriam-webster.com...
Debate Round No. 4
Sitara

Pro

Okay NOW I am saying that you support rape and murder. If you did not, you would believe that it is evil.
Dragonfang

Con

An opinion can be right or wrong.

My opponent have failed to prove or even provide basis for her resolution. Therefore my opponent have failed to uphold her resolution, wasting rounds and not presenting any logical arguments nor challenge my arguments in the process.


Vote Con.
Debate Round No. 5
11 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sitara 4 years ago
Sitara
I am sorry if I sucked at debating. I am trying again with logical definitions and examples. Any takers?
Posted by Sitara 4 years ago
Sitara
Wow. Anyone who voted against rape and murder being evil is disgusting. I guess if it happens to you, you have no right to whine.
Posted by neptune1bond 4 years ago
neptune1bond
One of the definitions on dictionary.com says that rape is "to force to have sexual intercourse." Some people actually schedule a "staged rape" where their partner, significant other, or a stranger come into their home and "force" them to have sex while the "raped" person does indeed resist and try to stop it from happening. This technically does fit dicionary.com's definition of "rape" since the "rapist" had to exert force over another to bring about sexual intercourse. I do not care what such people do with their time and do not think that either participant is evil or committing an evil act and neither would a lot of people.

Also, if someone came and threatened someone's life when they had done nothing to deserve it, they should do what is necessary to protect their life, even if it came to killing the aggressor instead. It could easily be argued that the murder of the aggressor is good because it had indeed protected the life of the innocent individual and many people could agree with this.

If it can be shown that there are situations in which rape and murder can be considered as not evil, then the existence of rape and murder can by no means prove the existence of evil. Even though I do PERSONALLY think that rape and murder is evil in the majority of circumstances, there is a distinction between opinion and indisputable proven fact.
Posted by donald.keller 4 years ago
donald.keller
In places in India, rape isn't considered evil. In much of the Middle East, a man may rape his wife.
Posted by Valar_Morghulis 4 years ago
Valar_Morghulis
This debate is so hilariously bad.

All the CON has to do is simply state that the very premise of this argument assumes that evil exists and can be objectively ascertained. Otherwise the whole argument falls apart.
Posted by Sitara 4 years ago
Sitara
If you do not think that rape and murder are evil, you are disgusting and you are wrong.
Posted by Dragonfang 4 years ago
Dragonfang
Unfortunately there are some people who disagree with you.

You need grounds in which your opinion have more validity than theirs.
Posted by Sitara 4 years ago
Sitara
the harm to rape and murder victims is proof enough. You are disgusting if you say otherwise.
Posted by Sitara 4 years ago
Sitara
the harm to rape and murder victims is proof enough. You are disgusting if you say otherwise.
Posted by Dragonfang 4 years ago
Dragonfang
What I believe in doesn't matter. It is your job to prove that it is objectively evil regardless of opinion. Simple as that.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by ooberman 4 years ago
ooberman
SitaraDragonfangTied
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Total points awarded:07 
Reasons for voting decision: Wow, Pro was the most annoying debater I've ever seen... Sad.
Vote Placed by JustinAMoffatt 4 years ago
JustinAMoffatt
SitaraDragonfangTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro... Ad hominem, begging the question, circular reasoning.... your arguments (Or rather, sentences) were ripe with them. Juts because you state that murder and rape are evil, doesn't mean they are. The point of debate is to prove your point objectively. While I agree, as does Con, that rape and murder are evil (not cool to accuse him of anything otherwise), you have to PROVE that in the debate round. Some things that are true simply can't be proven. I think this point could be proven... but you hardly gave it a try. Easily a Con victory.
Vote Placed by ModusTollens 4 years ago
ModusTollens
SitaraDragonfangTied
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Total points awarded:04 
Reasons for voting decision: Wow. Pro apparently has no clue what "proof" means. That argument was so circular it could be a Maynard James Keenan side project.