The Instigator
theConspiracy
Pro (for)
Winning
1 Points
The Contender
skht
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Rayman Origins is better than all platformers (and games) besides Gateways.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
theConspiracy
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/2/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 586 times Debate No: 61194
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (1)

 

theConspiracy

Pro

Hello! I think that Rayman Origins is better than all platformers (and games) besides Gateways. I am looking forward to any response! Only thing is, it would be considerate of my opponent to start the debate in round two. Also, please be respectful as to make this debate more fun for both of us (you can joke around and make the debates funny though).
skht

Con

I hope this will also be a fun debate indeed! I believe that Rayman Origins is an amazing game, and may very well be one of the best games of all time, but this one thinks that there are some more innovative ones!
Debate Round No. 1
theConspiracy

Pro

To start off, I would like to point out just how creative Rayman Origins is! It's bursting at the seams with creative level design, mechanics, characters, and yes, the ARTWORK! The animators and artists (and the creative director and creator of Rayman, Michel Ancel) didn't try to make the art photo-realistic, like SOME (OK, most) companies I know, indie devs set aside. Although technically, Ubi Soft IS an indie company, in my book, they seem a bit large for one. Point 2: the game play: the game play for this game is tremendously amazing! The platforming is rock solid, the controls are smooth as hell, and the mechanics fit snugly in with the rest of the levels. I would also like to point out the over-world. It completely fits the game, and is the perfect hub to get from one level/area to the next. It provides a great place where you can just pause and think about what level to go to next. Also, about the areas themselves, they are just great! Well named, well designed, well animated and all around swell! I will have to point out another great thing about this game: the music! Greatly performed and written, the music for this game is a ginormous piece in the atmosphere of this game, along with the art and whacky-ness!
Now, I know this was a bit short, but I look forward to your rebuttals. Next round, I will try to mark all of your rebuttals and rebuttal THEM! I will also go a bit more in depth about my points listed here, and list some new ones for you to rebuttal!
skht

Con

I think that although Rayman Origins is great, it's not innovative enough to be the greatest platformer of all time. My first examples are two excellent games, Metroid, and Castlevania, both released in 1986 for the NES. These two platformers defined the metroidvania sub-genre. Later, Super Metroid, released in 1994 for the SNES, went on to popularize and refine this sub-genre. Also, these three games are amazing! Especially Super Metroid, which boasts large sprites, an amazingly detailed world, and awesome secrets, plus tons more. My next example is an indie hit called Fez. This game isn't just extremely fun, but also one of the most innovative platformers released in a long time. That innovation is due to an amazingly creative new mechanic, which allows you to flip the world 90 degrees, extremely great puzzles, and amazing pixel art. Oh, there's one more thing I should add (actually one of the more important things): the refreshing new idea that instead of monsters or enemies trying to attack you, or boss battles, it's an extremely tranquil place. With all the hellish hardcore platformers like Super Meat Boy (which is also great), you sometimes need to just sit back, explore and relax, while still enjoying it to death.
Debate Round No. 2
theConspiracy

Pro

Hello! For this round, I will rebuttal each of your points!
Your first argument: Metroid and Castlevania.
My response: While Metroid and Castlevania were extremely innovative, I think Rayman Origins is still more creative. First off, I'll tell you just why it's more creative and innovative than Metroid. 1) Though Metroid created one of my favorite sub-genres, it just wasn't as polished as later games in the series. 2) Metroid's enemies aren't as creative as those in Rayman Origins. Allow me to elaborate: Metroid's enemies include mostly insect-type creatures or hurtful platforms (there are obviously more, however), and although those are very creative, just listen to some of Rayman Origin's enemies: Dragon Chefs who blow fire, barfing ice monsters, un-dead nagging women, ginormous piranha plant things, evil birds, giant evil birds, golem blobs, and lots, lots, lots, and I mean LOTS more. 3) Rayman Origins controls are smoother. Game devs have advanced a lot over the years. We have gotten analog sticks instead of joysticks, analog sticks on most popular home consoles (rather than d-pads in the 80s and 90s), programmers have gotten better at programming, more programming techniques have sprung up, and hardware and software has gotten a lot better. So in the end, Rayman Origin's controls are developed with better techniques and software, so of course they are better, though some modern day games have crappy controls, but that is normally because they have crappy programmers or rushed development. Rayman Origins has niether crappy programmers, OR rushed development, so Ubi Soft Montpellier had time to refine and perfect their star game's controls. 4) Game development was less advanced back in 1986 (compared to 2011), so the over-all game play is less refined. For example, the boss fights. In Rayman Origins, boss fights have you running up and down walls, attacking vulnerable spots, and through trial and error, finding out the best POSSIBLE way to beat a boss (or enemy, for that matter). In Metroid, you do go through the same trial and error method that you do in Rayman Origins, but it is less refined.
Your argument: Super Metroid 1) Rayman Origins boasts more detailed sprites than Super Metroid (thanks to the UbiArt Framework), like the bosses. 2) Rayman Origins has extremely detailed levels (while world is most important for metroidvania games, levels, or stages, are of most import to 2D sidescrollers). With lots of enemies, detailed backgrounds, well-thought-out level design, and amazing art and sound, I don't see how Rayman Origins is less detailed than Super Metroid. 4) You say "Also, these three games are amazing!" , as if those three games being amazing, as if that were a side note, or after-thought. 5) Please define "tons more" in your next round. 6) This is for both Metroid and Super Metroid: the mechanics and items aren't as good as in Rayman Origins. For example, Rayman can hairlycopter his way over a large hole, while Samus can't even go over it. Now, I know exploring new areas with new items defines the metroidvania sub-genre, there is no way in Guardians of the Galaxy that you could get over a huge pit with a gun (oh sorry, BLASTER CANNON), unless there were platforms over the pit. Another example is Rayman's ability to quickly smash enemies, which provides quick pace to the game. While metroidvania games aren't supposed to have super quick pace and action, it gets a little monotonous in the original Metroid having to stop at every enemy to get your way up one stupid tower! 7) It gets a little boring in the original Metroid grinding for entities.
Your args[ument]: Fez is better than Rayman Origins.
My response: N-O! 1) Rayman Origins is one of the most innovative platformers in a long time too. Reason: I explained it in my first two rounds! Just read above and it will click in your brain! 2) Though Fez does has awesome puzzles, Rayman Origins makes up for that with it's quick-paced action platforming! Rayman Origins is at the peak of platforming. Fez is a few miles below. 3) Rayman Origins has plenty great, innovative mechanics just like Fez. It may have even more (in quantity) innovative mechanics.
Next time can you please also give non-metroidvania games, also. It would make for a more interesting debate (not saying this one isn't interesting by the way, it's extremely fun so far).
skht

Con

First, I have to say one thing: even though Rayman Origins is newer, it doesn't mean that the time it was made in was better than platformers. About Metroid, Castlevania and Super Metroid, they were made in a better age: some would say it was the golden age of platforming, the time when Mario and Sonic ruled the industry. This brings me to another point. Nowadays, platforming rules the indie scene. These are the micro-developers that show big companies(like Ubisoft Montpellier) that you don't need 100 people to make a platformer with outstanding design, visuals, and controls. An example is a completely unique game in every aspect. No matter how you look at it, it is completely unique. And it's not just the above categories it excels in. It has something very personal, something special to Braid and Braid only. Not only that, but the story is completely different than anything I have ever seen in a game. Compare it to Rayman Origins, which has sort of a basic plot of defeating the bad guys, or wiping them out and sending them back to their realm or whatever. On the other hand, Braid's story is not only different, but also great. It's a love story, but not in the sense of kissy kissy or Mario save the Princess. I interpreted it as Tim (as the main character is called) kind of trying to find something that he's lost, and the puzzles represent trying to put them back together again. You see, there's a huge difference between mainstream and indie. Indies are more personal, more unique, and a lot of times, more true to their original vision. Also the puzzles are phenomenal in Braid. I think Braid has more to it than any Rayman game ever will. About Super Metroid having worse boss battles: you obviously haven't played them. The cinematics are purrrfect; they have design to give a standing ovation to Nintendo for making, AND! the mood is just right. And about better sprites for Origins than Super Metroid: another thing you obviously haven't seen. I shall go into detail: the pixels are perfectly in place, the sprites are HUGE; it's just phenomenal. Also, you said Rayman Origins was a more detailed game and game world. Um... I am astounded by this. You obviously have no idea what you're doing, as you are just spewing out nonsense to try to win. The environment, the music, the world - much more detailed! You my sir, are going DOWN!!!!!! Everyone in their right mind will agree with me in this, round 3!
Debate Round No. 3
theConspiracy

Pro

I wasn't saying that just because it's newer, it's automatically better (duh!). Please read over my argument again. You will than take into account just how wrong you were in round three. I am DEFINITELY not saying that you need 100 people to make an outstanding game. Even my favorite game, Gateways, was made by mostly ONE PERSON. You obviously couldn't understand what I was trying to say in my previous argument. Plus, the Rayman Origins original dev team wasn't even CLOSE to 100 people. It was six. Sure they shifted to 100+ people, but all the original gameplay and concepts were created by those 6 people.
HA! Proved you wrong! The 100+ people were mostly programmers (and a lot of artists, too), and they didn't concieve of the game (except for the original 6 people). I will now continue to rebuttal until you are speechless and forfeit. OK, here I go.
1) Rayman Origins has lots of things special to Rayman Origins and Rayman Origins only... like the ENEMIES! I have kept telling you over and over but you just don't get it. The enemies are MUCH more creative than the puzzles and story in Braid. For instance, in Braid, it's the story of putting your self back together. While that is unique and special, it is not NEARLY as unique as Rayman Origins as a whole. Plus, just because Braid has a more sophisticated story doesn't mean it is better (obviously). And if you even think that the sophisticated story brings it to a higher level or whatever, than just forfeit! I mean, I know I am getting a little too frustrated with your arguments, but why in your mind would you think that games are automatically more unique than mainstream games. Um... I am astounded by this. Some indie devs just try to rack up cash because of other popular indie devs like Team Meat or Derek Yu. Like for instance, take Seaside Racing for example. It SUCKS. Crappy controls, ripping off Mario Kart, crappy design, crappy EVERYTHING. And it's an indie game. I win. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. 2) The mood is just right in Rayman Origins too. Plus, I never said the overworld was better for Rayman Origins than for Super Metroid, person who hasn't read my previous argument carefully. I said that the levels and stages were better than Super Metroid's overworld. Not the world map/overworld. The LEVELS.
Also, I think that after my round 4 argument, YOU are going down. Unless they just automatically like Braid or Metroid or Fez better than Rayman Origins, and don't even look at the debate, of course.
Sorry for my temper getting the better of me though. Also, readers, look at the comments. Some essential info is down there, posted by me.
skht

Con

skht forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
theConspiracy

Pro

theConspiracy forfeited this round.
skht

Con

skht forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by SakuraBlossom950 3 years ago
SakuraBlossom950
Lol nice debate
Posted by theConspiracy 3 years ago
theConspiracy
This is my first debate, so I didn't expect to fulfill my BoP. I'm sorry if I might have not put up any good arguments, but I tried my best!
Posted by theConspiracy 3 years ago
theConspiracy
Sorry I've been forfeiting. I haven't had any time to debate lately...
Posted by theConspiracy 3 years ago
theConspiracy
What I meant by better than other platformers is better than the platformers he has listed.
Posted by theConspiracy 3 years ago
theConspiracy
Hey! Pro here! Just wanted to say, if you want to have a debate with me about this particular subject, or one pertaining to it, just do so in the comments! Otherwise, you can just challenge me to a debate of your own.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 3 years ago
bladerunner060
theConspiracyskhtTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeits from Con. Pro forfeited, but it seems to have been in response to Con's forfeit, so I don't hold it as much against him. As to arguments: I don't think either side really fulfilled their BoP. A resolution like this is going to be inherently subjective and, while Pro made numerous points, I don't think he drew them together in a compelling way for me to definitively say he won. Neither, though, did Con's case wow me enough to give the win to him. So conduct only it is. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.