Rayman Origins is better than all platformers (and games) besides Gateways.
Debate Rounds (5)
Now, I know this was a bit short, but I look forward to your rebuttals. Next round, I will try to mark all of your rebuttals and rebuttal THEM! I will also go a bit more in depth about my points listed here, and list some new ones for you to rebuttal!
Your first argument: Metroid and Castlevania.
My response: While Metroid and Castlevania were extremely innovative, I think Rayman Origins is still more creative. First off, I'll tell you just why it's more creative and innovative than Metroid. 1) Though Metroid created one of my favorite sub-genres, it just wasn't as polished as later games in the series. 2) Metroid's enemies aren't as creative as those in Rayman Origins. Allow me to elaborate: Metroid's enemies include mostly insect-type creatures or hurtful platforms (there are obviously more, however), and although those are very creative, just listen to some of Rayman Origin's enemies: Dragon Chefs who blow fire, barfing ice monsters, un-dead nagging women, ginormous piranha plant things, evil birds, giant evil birds, golem blobs, and lots, lots, lots, and I mean LOTS more. 3) Rayman Origins controls are smoother. Game devs have advanced a lot over the years. We have gotten analog sticks instead of joysticks, analog sticks on most popular home consoles (rather than d-pads in the 80s and 90s), programmers have gotten better at programming, more programming techniques have sprung up, and hardware and software has gotten a lot better. So in the end, Rayman Origin's controls are developed with better techniques and software, so of course they are better, though some modern day games have crappy controls, but that is normally because they have crappy programmers or rushed development. Rayman Origins has niether crappy programmers, OR rushed development, so Ubi Soft Montpellier had time to refine and perfect their star game's controls. 4) Game development was less advanced back in 1986 (compared to 2011), so the over-all game play is less refined. For example, the boss fights. In Rayman Origins, boss fights have you running up and down walls, attacking vulnerable spots, and through trial and error, finding out the best POSSIBLE way to beat a boss (or enemy, for that matter). In Metroid, you do go through the same trial and error method that you do in Rayman Origins, but it is less refined.
Your argument: Super Metroid 1) Rayman Origins boasts more detailed sprites than Super Metroid (thanks to the UbiArt Framework), like the bosses. 2) Rayman Origins has extremely detailed levels (while world is most important for metroidvania games, levels, or stages, are of most import to 2D sidescrollers). With lots of enemies, detailed backgrounds, well-thought-out level design, and amazing art and sound, I don't see how Rayman Origins is less detailed than Super Metroid. 4) You say "Also, these three games are amazing!" , as if those three games being amazing, as if that were a side note, or after-thought. 5) Please define "tons more" in your next round. 6) This is for both Metroid and Super Metroid: the mechanics and items aren't as good as in Rayman Origins. For example, Rayman can hairlycopter his way over a large hole, while Samus can't even go over it. Now, I know exploring new areas with new items defines the metroidvania sub-genre, there is no way in Guardians of the Galaxy that you could get over a huge pit with a gun (oh sorry, BLASTER CANNON), unless there were platforms over the pit. Another example is Rayman's ability to quickly smash enemies, which provides quick pace to the game. While metroidvania games aren't supposed to have super quick pace and action, it gets a little monotonous in the original Metroid having to stop at every enemy to get your way up one stupid tower! 7) It gets a little boring in the original Metroid grinding for entities.
Your args[ument]: Fez is better than Rayman Origins.
My response: N-O! 1) Rayman Origins is one of the most innovative platformers in a long time too. Reason: I explained it in my first two rounds! Just read above and it will click in your brain! 2) Though Fez does has awesome puzzles, Rayman Origins makes up for that with it's quick-paced action platforming! Rayman Origins is at the peak of platforming. Fez is a few miles below. 3) Rayman Origins has plenty great, innovative mechanics just like Fez. It may have even more (in quantity) innovative mechanics.
Next time can you please also give non-metroidvania games, also. It would make for a more interesting debate (not saying this one isn't interesting by the way, it's extremely fun so far).
HA! Proved you wrong! The 100+ people were mostly programmers (and a lot of artists, too), and they didn't concieve of the game (except for the original 6 people). I will now continue to rebuttal until you are speechless and forfeit. OK, here I go.
1) Rayman Origins has lots of things special to Rayman Origins and Rayman Origins only... like the ENEMIES! I have kept telling you over and over but you just don't get it. The enemies are MUCH more creative than the puzzles and story in Braid. For instance, in Braid, it's the story of putting your self back together. While that is unique and special, it is not NEARLY as unique as Rayman Origins as a whole. Plus, just because Braid has a more sophisticated story doesn't mean it is better (obviously). And if you even think that the sophisticated story brings it to a higher level or whatever, than just forfeit! I mean, I know I am getting a little too frustrated with your arguments, but why in your mind would you think that games are automatically more unique than mainstream games. Um... I am astounded by this. Some indie devs just try to rack up cash because of other popular indie devs like Team Meat or Derek Yu. Like for instance, take Seaside Racing for example. It SUCKS. Crappy controls, ripping off Mario Kart, crappy design, crappy EVERYTHING. And it's an indie game. I win. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha. 2) The mood is just right in Rayman Origins too. Plus, I never said the overworld was better for Rayman Origins than for Super Metroid, person who hasn't read my previous argument carefully. I said that the levels and stages were better than Super Metroid's overworld. Not the world map/overworld. The LEVELS.
Also, I think that after my round 4 argument, YOU are going down. Unless they just automatically like Braid or Metroid or Fez better than Rayman Origins, and don't even look at the debate, of course.
Sorry for my temper getting the better of me though. Also, readers, look at the comments. Some essential info is down there, posted by me.
skht forfeited this round.
theConspiracy forfeited this round.
skht forfeited this round.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by bladerunner060 2 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Conduct for the forfeits from Con. Pro forfeited, but it seems to have been in response to Con's forfeit, so I don't hold it as much against him. As to arguments: I don't think either side really fulfilled their BoP. A resolution like this is going to be inherently subjective and, while Pro made numerous points, I don't think he drew them together in a compelling way for me to definitively say he won. Neither, though, did Con's case wow me enough to give the win to him. So conduct only it is. As always, happy to clarify this RFD.
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