The Instigator
Lifeisgood
Pro (for)
Losing
8 Points
The Contender
pcmbrown
Con (against)
Winning
16 Points

Re: 'Up' is Not a Good Children's Movie

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/9/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,305 times Debate No: 9042
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (13)
Votes (4)

 

Lifeisgood

Pro

About a month ago, I did a debate on this topic with someone else. The debate did not go as well as I had hoped, and pcmbrown said that he would be willing to accept it if I re-issued it. Now I have.

Before I begin, some definitions:

Good: conforming to set standards; suitable, sufficient or satisfactory

Children's movie: a movie created specifically for viewing by audiences ages 2-14

A children's movie is usually characterized by its witty humor, appropriate content, and a light-hearted nature. Up fails in the fact that is has neither witty humor or a light-hearted nature. Here are the arguments I gave in my previous debate as to why this is so.

"
1) Up is a very sad, depressing movie. It all starts off with a slide show of Carl his and married life with Ellie. Here is a brief synopsis of what is depicted.

The couple tries to have a child, but Carl's wife, Ellie, has a miscarriage, and apparently can have no more children. Sorrowful, depressing music is played through the sequence.

The couple shares a dream of going to Paradise Falls, but every time they have nearly enough money to go there, they have to spend the money on something else, because unfortunate events such as injuries and house repairs keep happening.

In their old age, the couple eventually conjures up enough money to go to Paradise Falls, (oh, here's the good part) but then Ellie dies. Yup, after all those years of saving and turmoil, she just dies, leaving a heartbroken Carl all alone. Cue regretful, melancholy music.

After Carl's wife dies, a truck knocks of his mailbox, and a guy tries to fix it. Carl doesn't like him touching his mailbox, so he whacks the guy over the head with his cane, drawing blood. Then Carl is summoned to court and evicted from his house as a public menace.

Honestly, I felt like crying after watching scenes such as these. These events are all very real and disturbing. Do we really need such sickeningly sad things in a kid's movie?

2) The humor in this movie is a joke (pun intended, of course). A kid's movie should make you want to laugh, not cry. Watching this movie gave me little pleasure. I think I only laughed out loud once in the whole movie. However, it was only a little 'heh-heh', and the joke was repeated several times, decreasing much of the humor for me. All the other attempted humor was old, or was just plain not funny (at least to me).

3) Up is a stressful movie. There are many desperate moments where it feels as though the characters are going to fall from treacherous heights. One might say that climatic moments like these occur in almost every movie, but for Up it is much more intense. For an animated movie, these sequences look remarkably real and harrowing, not to mention they happen frequently. I've seen some intense movies before, but Up still left me with a feeling of anxiety. I'm serious. Children just don't need that degree of stress.

Through these arguments, I have shown that Up does not qualify a 'good' children's movie, as in it does not meet satisfactory standards for audiences ages 2-14. It seems as though it would be much more qualified for a slightly older audience, as it contains many depressing and intense moments that would be disturbing to young children.
"

I can't say it much better than that. My opponent may now give his rebuttal.
pcmbrown

Con

To Begin:
Up is, of course, a children's movie (directed at 6-7 year olds and older, given the PG rating). This was obviously the intended demographic. With that out of the way, this debate hinges on how "good" of a children's movie 'Up' is. Now, according to my opponent's definition, I may choose to demonstrate that 'Up' is either: "satisfactory" (which bears no relation to its suitability for children, but instead, its quality), or "standard" (which merely requires that I demonstrate it to be 'above average', in terms of serving its target audience). In order to win the debate, I must demonstrate only one of these statements to be true, as they both fall under my opponent's definition.

"Satisfactory"
'Up' is a good movie. Its popularity indicates this, as it grossed nearly 300 million dollars within the U.S., and nearly 400 million worldwide. http://www.boxofficemojo.com... It has been praised by hordes of movie critics. The famed Roger Ebert granted it 4 stars. http://rogerebert.suntimes.com... A popular movie review site, Rotten Tomatoes, awarded 'Up' an incredible 97% rating. http://www.rottentomatoes.com... These figures indicate that 'Up' is indeed a movie of quality, and therefore, quite satisfactory.

"Standard"
Children's movies are characterized by appropriateness, as well as humor. 'Up' displays both. It is appropriate. Its recommended demographic, by Common Sense Media, is 6 years old and over. http://www.commonsensemedia.org... It is also humorous. Hollywood Reporter describes it as a "joyously buoyant lift". http://www.hollywoodreporter.com... Clearly, 'Up' seems to be a fairly typical children's movie, and an excellent one at that.

1. Many popular children's movies such as Bambi contain scenes of sorrow and death. Much of the enjoyment from the film results from the change in emotional tone, from depressed to gay.

2. This contention is entirely based on my opponent's sense of humor. I, along with several friends, and a number of movie critics noted in previous links, found the movie to be light-hearted and amusing.

3. My opponent, once again, uses his own personal views to formulate a contention. The degree of stress is subjective, and again, relief from said stress produces enjoyment. My opponent concedes that these climatic moments are common.
Debate Round No. 1
Lifeisgood

Pro

I give my sincere apologies. I have long paper to write for my school, and I have been forbidden access to the computer until I am done with it. I cannot respond to your argument in time. I am sorry. I will try to submit an argument in a few days.
pcmbrown

Con

pcmbrown forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
Lifeisgood

Pro

I applaud my opponent's mercifulness. I have been very pressed lately, but I will try to give an adequate final argument.

"'Up' is a good movie. Its popularity indicates this, as it grossed nearly 300 million dollars within the U.S.,
and nearly 400 million worldwide. http://www.boxofficemojo.com...;

There are other possible reasons for the film making so much money; after all, it was a very well-
advertised film.

"It has been praised by hordes of movie critics. The famed Roger Ebert granted it 4 stars. http://rogerebert.suntimes.com...;

Just because he personally liked it doesn't mean that it was a good movie for children. He's an old guy who has seen much of life, and thus wouldn't be overly disturbed by some of the things in Up. However, young children are likely to be very distressed by the general feeling of depression that pervades the movie.

"A popular movie review site, Rotten Tomatoes, awarded 'Up' an incredible 97% rating. http://www.rottentomatoes.com...... These figures indicate that 'Up' is indeed a movie of quality, and therefore, quite satisfactory."

Movie reviews do not determine whether or not a movie is good. There have been many reviews which give a high rating to poor films.

"Children's movies are characterized by appropriateness, as well as humor. 'Up' displays both."

You forget that children's movies are also characterized by a light-hearted nature. That is a fundamental aspect of what we expect when going to a kid's film. We don't go there to be depressed about some aspect of life; we want to come out of the film feeling GOOD.

"It is appropriate. Its recommended demographic, by Common Sense Media, is 6 years old and over. http://www.commonsensemedia.org...... It is also humorous. Hollywood Reporter describes it as a "joyously buoyant lift". http://www.hollywoodreporter.com...... Clearly, 'Up' seems to be a fairly typical children's movie, and an excellent one at that."

Typical children's movies don't deal with things like infertility, death, depression, bloody cane-bashing, court summons, eviction, and negligent parents, among other things.

"1. Many popular children's movies such as Bambi contain scenes of sorrow and death. Much of the enjoyment from the film results from the change in emotional tone, from depressed to gay."

To go from tragic death to a flying house, talking dogs, and ridiculous birds in a moment is not relieving; it's just ridiculous.

Also, we are reminded of the death of Carl's wife THROUGHOUT the movie, unlike in Bambi, were the issue almost seems to disappear. (By the way, Bambi was a terrible movie too, and I'm not the only one who thinks so.)

"2. This contention is entirely based on my opponent's sense of humor. I, along with several friends, and a number of movie critics noted in previous links, found the movie to be light-hearted and amusing."

It was not just me who thought Up had poor humor. When I went to see the movie, there was virtually NO LAUGHING. There were a few chuckles, but nothing more. When people started filing out of the theater, there were NO SMILES on the faces of ANYONE. The guy who sat behind me in the theater said this as he walked out: "Wow. That has got to be the most depressing kid's movie I have ever seen." My younger brother said "I want to go home and do something to make me feel better." My mother and father ranted about wasted money. And I tried to find my happy place. Our lives were not made better by this movie. Others found the depressing themes of this movie less-than-enjoyable as well. (1)

"3. My opponent, once again, uses his own personal views to formulate a contention. The degree of stress is subjective, and again, relief from said stress produces enjoyment. My opponent concedes that these climatic moments are common."

Again, it is not only I who found Up to be disturbing. My entire family felt similarly.

Up is a very realistic movie. The computer animation is shockingly natural-looking. The bloody wounds, the constant pain on Carl's face, the incredible detail of the terrifying storm, and the nerve-racking heights are all beautifully portrayed. The so-called ‘relief' from these moments are really not that relieving, not to me or anyone else in the theater.

Up is not satisfactory, nor does it meet the set standard for good children's movies, as it is both depressing and not very humorous. Save yourself the money and happiness. Don't buy the DVD.

I have avenged myself at last.

Sources:
(1) http://www.bostonherald.com...?

http://www.alternet.org...
pcmbrown

Con

Box-Office Gross:
"There are other possible reasons for the film making so much money; after all, it was a very well-
advertised film."
Nearly all films nowadays are well advertised. A high gross is almost always an indication of popularity. The highest grossing films of all time are all very popular. http://en.wikipedia.org...

Ebert's Opinion:
Ebert's 4 star rating indicates that 'Up' is a quality film. Note that by proving that 'Up' is a film of quality, I fulfill the terms of the resolution.

Other Reviews:
"Movie reviews do not determine whether or not a movie is good. There have been many reviews which give a high rating to poor films."
High movie reviews typically indicate a quality movie. This point is rather self-evident.

Light-Hearted Nature:
"You forget that children's movies are also characterized by a light-hearted nature. That is a fundamental aspect of what we expect when going to a kid's film. We don't go there to be depressed about some aspect of life; we want to come out of the film feeling GOOD."
'Up' does not cause a feeling of depression, but rather a relief from stress. You are essentially weighing your personal opinion on this point.

Ratings for Children:
"Typical children's movies don't deal with things like infertility, death, depression, bloody cane-bashing, court summons, eviction, and negligent parents, among other things."
This completely fails to counter the applicable ratings and reviews which I have provided.

Relief:
My opponent makes unwarranted claims against my statement. There is certainly a good deal of relief generated by the movie's events.

Humor:
Again, my opponent uses only personal experience, and a single, non-functional link, to counter my esteemed and popular reviews.

Stress:
And yet again, my opponent presents examples which barely qualify as warrants.

It is clear from the numerous positive reviews, despite my opponent's poor experience, that the movie 'Up' is a movie of quality, affirming the resolution. Further, it is shown that the movie is humorous, and appropriate, once again affirming the resolution.

Thanks for reading, vote Con.

Humor:
Debate Round No. 3
13 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by paramore102 7 years ago
paramore102
"the wilderness must be explored caw caw rarw!"
I found nothing wrong with this movie. I thought that it was a great movie for kids to watch. the moral of the story was good, " even the little things that you thing cant be an adventure turns out to be the most advantageous things that you will do in your life." I liked that movie it was great!
Posted by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
I hope that's good enough. I wish I had time to get more sources.
Posted by Miles_Finch 7 years ago
Miles_Finch
If you to keep forfeiting too many rounds you should start the debate over again and post what you have here into another debate.
Posted by pcmbrown 7 years ago
pcmbrown
no problem, ill wait till the last possible moment
Posted by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
Pcmbrown, could you perhaps wait a day or so before you post your round 2 argument to give me a little more time? Thanks.

Stupid history report. My homework is interfering with my education.
Posted by USAPitBull63 7 years ago
USAPitBull63
"With all due respect USAPB63, you have claimed a collection of subjective opinions here...."

Of course they're subjective, they're my own opinions! I'm not in this debate, and it's not over yet, so I'm not going to make a laundry list of specifics here. Judging from the rest of your post, you seem to understand the reasoning behind this.

That said, if you still want to know more specifics, send me a message and I will reply.
Posted by Artifice 7 years ago
Artifice
My apologies, but I feel a need to interject here...

With all due respect USAPB63, you have claimed a collection of subjective opinions here:

"I was severely disappointed..."
"... it was just a bad movie."
"The rest of the movie just lagged..."
" ...this is a real let-down for Pixar..."
"...it's the worst movie from Disney/Pixar yet."

Yet at no point have you backed up these claims with any substantive justification. You needn't supply us with any of course, as this isn't the place for a debate, but it would lend credence to your complaints if you did explain yourself. I'll give you credit for elaborating a little more on the montage after you say, "... the best part was the montage at the beginning, where it spanned the protagonist's life of meeting, marrying, and growing old with his wife. That was quite poignant and emotionally satisfying."

Yet it would also be personally satisfying (from my pov) to hear why you felt this portion of the film was poignant and emotionally satisfying. Your further elaboration would at least provide myself and others with an idea as to why you believe the montage portion of 'UP' is worth your time, while the rest falls short of quality in your estimation.
Posted by USAPitBull63 7 years ago
USAPitBull63
How ironic is it to misspell typo?
Posted by USAPitBull63 7 years ago
USAPitBull63
Ugh, my traditional one type per post:

...thought [sic] I know....

Should be "...though I know...."
Posted by USAPitBull63 7 years ago
USAPitBull63
I was severely disappointed when I saw "UP" a few months ago.

It wasn't a bad "kids movie" --- it was just a bad movie. Actually, I thought the best part was the montage at the beginning, where it spanned the protagonist's life of meeting, marrying, and growing old with his wife. That was quite poignant and emotionally satisfying.

The rest of the movie just lagged like the big house through the Amazon. To me, this is a real let-down for Pixar (thought I know critics loved it). I daresay it's the worst movie from Disney/Pixar yet.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by paramore102 7 years ago
paramore102
LifeisgoodpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by pcmbrown 7 years ago
pcmbrown
LifeisgoodpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by Lifeisgood 7 years ago
Lifeisgood
LifeisgoodpcmbrownTied
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Vote Placed by Artifice 7 years ago
Artifice
LifeisgoodpcmbrownTied
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