The Instigator
TheConservative
Con (against)
Losing
6 Points
The Contender
left_wing_mormon
Pro (for)
Winning
15 Points

Reagan was immoral and evil

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/25/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,999 times Debate No: 3373
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (23)
Votes (7)

 

TheConservative

Con

This is "JlConservative" I made a fresh account, I rememberd this debate I was to occupied to give it much focus.

I will allow you to give an opening statement.
left_wing_mormon

Pro

If you don't mind, I'll just use my opening argument from the other debate that we "had":

Ok, maybe "Evil" is too far. But Ronald Reagan has always been the symbol for the GOP, and really both sides of the political spectrum think Reagan represented America. Why?

Ronald Reagan is not the moral and worldly guy everyone thought he was. There was a yellow streak down this purple pansy. Example, remember Jane Wyman? This was Ronalds first wife. They were divorced, because during their marriage he was to busy meeting up with a girl named Nancy. Adultry is pretty evil, and it is immoral.

How about lying: http://www.youtube.com......

Yeah...Ronald Wilson Reagan (6 letters in each name--666)....(ok that was just a joke).....but really...
Debate Round No. 1
TheConservative

Con

First of all thank you for the opportunity.

So the first thing I will do is point out some errors that have been bothering me.

Wrong: Ronalds
Correct: Ronald's

Wrong: Adultry
Correct: Adultery

Alright well lets begin:

"Ok, maybe "Evil" is too far."

- Then why did you select the topic "Reagan was immoral and EVIL?" now I will give you the benefit of the doubt since I had to bring up the topic again but those are your words.

"But Ronald Reagan has always been the symbol for the GOP, and really both sides of the political spectrum think Reagan represented America. Why?"

1. President Reagan's economic policies stimulated the economy, creating 17 million new jobs. One-fourth of the new jobs were created in 68 consecutive months. Black unemployment was cut in half.

2. We were given incentives to save our money, to work, and to invest because of Reagan's tax reforms.

3. The inflation rate decreased to less than 4.4%. Family income rose 12%.

4. We where experiencing the longest and strongest peacetime prosperity in the history of the nation.

5. We are experiencing the best peacetime relationship with the Soviet Union in our history. We have also seen the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Afghanistan.

6. We are now keeping the peace. We drew the line in Grenada, Libya, Afghanistan, and the Persian Gulf, and no countries have fallen to communism during the Reagan era.

7. The U.S. military was refurbished and strengthened.

8. There is now a call for prayer in schools. The Republican administration has been lobbying to give this deserved religious freedom.

9. We have seen a return to traditional values. Under Reagan, we have seen a cut in federal funding of abortions; emphasis on a strong family unit; and the development of family-oriented public policy.

10. Educational leaders are now working to sustain moral values and reestablish a clear understanding of right and wrong. The need for values in the curriculum has been trumpeted by the Reagan administration.

11. People from other nations are flocking to America to follow our example. Our principles of civil and economic freedom are now being copied all over the world.

Now lets take a look at America Just Prior to the Reagan Administration

1. Seven million Americans were unemployed.

2. We were told to live on less, to buckle our belts and to prepare for scarcity.

3. Americans went through two of the worst years of inflation in 60 years. There was a 13% inflation rate. Family income dropped and we had the highest tax bill in our history.

4. We were on the verge of a major recession.

5. With our cold wars during the '70s, we inspired our enemies not to be afraid of us. The Soviets refused to come to the bargaining table. Cultural exchanges between the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. came to a halt.

6. Disarmament was considered a noble goal. We did not know where to draw the line in our negotiations with the Soviets. Three countries fell to communism under the Carter administration: Benin (1977), Nicaragua (1979), and Zimbabwe (1980).

7. Guns and tanks that did not even work were being sent to battle.

8. Young Americans were not allowed to pray in school ... even though Congress, every state house, and the Supreme Court begins business with prayer.

9. Progressive values became fashionable. Social policies emulated the values of a small, vocal minority.

10. Education did not sustain moral values. Educational curricula began to promote "alternative lifestyles," such as homosexuality.

11. America wore a "kick me" sign on its back. We lost our edge in technology and in global markets due to excessive government regulation, and high taxes which devoured capital.

This is just a short minuscule list of things that I could come up with.

"Ronald Reagan is not the moral and worldly guy everyone thought he was."
- You are extremely naive, no one is standing up saying Reagan was the Pope. The reason he is the "symbol" of the GOP because it was pure conservative ideology that enabled Reagan to achieve the mountains of accomplishments.

" Example, remember Jane Wyman? This was Ronald's first wife. They were divorced, because during their marriage he was to busy meeting up with a girl named Nancy. Adultery is pretty evil, and it is immoral."

- So because a man had a fling he is "immoral" and "EVIL?" based on this ideology almost 50% of men out there today are "EVIL"

"How about lying: http://www.youtube.com...;
- This is ridiculous do you know how much information is handed down to a president? Just because information is flawed does not mean the man is "lying" there is a big difference between a Bill Clinton lie and flawed information. This argument is childish.

"Yeah...Ronald Wilson Reagan (6 letters in each name--666)....(ok that was just a joke).....but really..."

- Give me a break....

Ronald Reagan's economic achievements were among the most important of his presidency. When he took office in January 1981, the U.S. economy was suffering from many ills, including slow growth, high inflation, rising unemployment and unprecedented interest rates. Economists commonly believed that it would take decades to fix all these problems, if they could be fixed at all, and that the political cost of doing so was impossibly large for a democracy. Yet, well before the end of Reagan's presidency in 1988, he had succeeded in reversing all of the problems he inherited, putting the U.S. economy on the path of sound, noninflationary growth that continues to this day.

To appreciate the magnitude of Reagan's achievement, it is important to recall just how bad the economic situation was in 1980. There was a recession that year, beginning in January and ending in July. As a consequence, real growth for the year was negative, with the national unemployment rate averaging more than 7 percent. Yet, inflation remained dangerously high. By December 1980, the consumer price index was 12.4 percent higher than a year earlier. Inflationary expectations, combined with monetary tightening by the Federal Reserve, caused interest rates to hit the highest levels in U.S. history. The prime rate went above 20 percent at mid-year and was still above 15 percent when Reagan took the oath of office.

Reagan's predecessor, Jimmy Carter, was baffled by the combination of economic evils. Many economists believed that it would take the equivalent of another Great Depression to break the back of inflation and restore the nation's economic health, something no sane politician would ever contemplate. A common estimate was based on "Okun's Law," named for economist Arthur Okun, which says that to bring inflation down by one percentage point will cause the economy to contract by 10 percent. Thus eliminating a 12.4 inflation rate would either take a very, very long time or involve an unthinkable economic cost.

Nevertheless, by 1986 the U.S. inflation rate was down to just 1.1 percent and real gross domestic product was rising at a healthy pace. The unemployment rate and interest rates were still stubbornly high, but on a downward trend. Although the U.S. economy had suffered a sharp recession from July 1981 to November 1982, it was far less severe than most economists expected, given the drop in inflation.

It is to Reagan's credit that he never wavered from his commitment to end inflation, even during the darkest days of the recession in 1982, when his party was suffering huge losses at the polls resulting from the economic slowdown. He remained steadfast because he was certain of the outcome and because the stakes were so high. Reagan firmly believed that the Soviet Union's tottering economy was being kept afloat only by skyrocketing prices for its export commodities, such as oil and gold. Thus, stopping inflation was central not only to the health of the domestic economy, but to the defeat of communism as well.
left_wing_mormon

Pro

I'm sorry I was under the impression you had a sense of humor...

Thank you for correcting my spelling, perhaps you will continue to do so, as to not confuse anyone who may not of known what I was tring to say when I typed "Ronalds" instead of "Ronald's". Thanks.

Well the title of the debate is not Reagan was a Bad President. In fact you made it clear you knew what the debate was. So you can type all you want about the many accomplishments of Reagan, but you are not answering to the debate at hand.

See, I like to have fun with my life. I like jokes. The 666 thing with Ronald's name, that is one of those jokes. The whole "evil" thing...yeah another joke. I tried to make that clear that I was...joking. Apparently, I need to slow down here.

I don't want to adress little things such as more people died during "the time of peace" Reagan's presidency had than any other "peace time". People were dying with our weapons. But this again is not the debate at hand. Was Reagan immoral? For get the whole evil thing, again that was a joke.

You reconize that Reagan cheated on his first wife. And you don't thing that makes him an immoral guy?

You want to know what a lie looks like? Here's one:

After the weapon sales were revealed in November 1986, President Ronald Reagan appeared on national television and denied that they had occurred. A week later, however, on November 13, 1986 Reagan returned to the airwaves to affirm that weapons were indeed transferred to Iran, but that they were not part of an exchange for hostages. On March 4, 1987 in a nationally televised address to the nation he took full responsibility and admitted that "what began as a strategic opening to Iran deteriorated, in its implementation, into trading arms for hostages."

Remember this is really not a debate about the politician. Rather, this is a debate about the man:
"It's silly talking about how many years we will have to spend in the jungles of Vietnam when we could pave the whole country and put parking stripes on it and still be home by Christmas." --Ronald Reagan (candidate for Governor of California), interviewed in the Fresno Bee, October 10, 1965

You can continue to defend him. I don't mind. And since you don't seem to mind that Ronald had a "fling", than I guess this will be fun.
Debate Round No. 2
TheConservative

Con

TheConservative forfeited this round.
left_wing_mormon

Pro

DERRICK Z. JACKSON BOSTON GLOBE - In the weeks leading up to his appearance on Capitol Hill, [Desmond] Tutu said in speeches that it seemed that the Reagan White House saw "blacks as expendable" in South Africa. . . On Capitol Hill, Tutu became a public relations disaster for Reagan. Tutu started off the hearing by saying apartheid itself "is evil, is immoral, is un- Christian, without remainder." I was there, and all breathing stopped, without remainder. Tutu continued:

"In my view, the Reagan administration's support and collaboration with it is equally immoral, evil, and totally un-Christian. . . . You are either for or against apartheid and not by rhetoric. You are either in favor of evil or you are in favor of good. You are either on the side of the oppressed or on the side of the oppressor. You can't be neutral."

Tutu received an unprecedented standing ovation by the committee. Even Reagan's Republican allies told the South African Embassy they would reluctantly support sanctions if Pretoria did not move to end apartheid.

Reagan was not moved. Over the remainder of his presidency, at least 3,000 people would die, mostly at the hands of the South African police and military. Another 20,000, including 6,000 children, according to one estimate by a human rights group, would be arrested under "state of emergency" decrees.

Yet Reagan had the gall to say in 1985 that the "reformist administration" of South Africa had "eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country." In 1986, Reagan gave a speech where he said Mandela should be released but denounced sanctions with crocodile tears, claiming that they would hurt black workers, who were already ridiculously impoverished. Reagan's go-slow speech was denounced by Tutu, who said: "I found it quite nauseating. I think the West, for my part, can go to hell. . . . Your president is the pits as far as blacks are concerned. He sits there like the great, big white chief of old."
Debate Round No. 3
23 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Rousseau 8 years ago
Rousseau
Haha, I think Solarman's diaper is getting ruffled. Is anyone else reminded of a adolescent when he calls people names and insists he's won, even when he obviously hasn't (look at his record)? Just curious, because I get a strong image of a 8-year old throwing a fit.
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
Hey Rousseau

thanks for providing us with the standard liberal argument

SHUT DOWN FREE SPEECH!

"Honestly, I can't think of any one time where he has seriously challenged my views, or seriously offered a well reasoned argument."

I have completely obliterated every point you have ever made, and left you with nothing left to say but

BAN SOLARMAN

well guess what buddy- the folks who founded this site did so in order to have us conservatives educate you moron liberals into what the real world is rather that your socialist utopia

Reagan was a steadfast believer in the good of America, as is our current honorable president, who makes Klingtong look like the scum he is

and Carter the idiot anti semite
Posted by Rousseau 8 years ago
Rousseau
Does anyone actually hear an argument in Solarman's posts ever? I, for one, will probably just ignore him from now on. His epithets and thinly veiled contempt for things he doesn't agree with are a blight upon the site, and I think would be well served to get rid of him. Honestly, I can't think of any one time where he has seriously challenged my views, or seriously offered a well reasoned argument. Additionally, I can't think of many people who would disagree with me.
Posted by Solarman1969 8 years ago
Solarman1969
First of all , you kids need to start learning to have respect for your elders and those that passed before your time who were instrumental and critical to the formation and keeping of this great nation, the UNITED STATES of AMERICA.

Secondly if you want to argue about RONALD REAGAN, and his good nature, and his affableness, and his good humour, and his steadfastness, and his straightforwardness

or whatever you libs think was wrong headed on his part like

ENDING THE COLD WAR

by the way did your hear that Putin said the other day hes not interested in a cold war again- that was good news

LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER
Posted by kato0291 8 years ago
kato0291
I believe Reagan once made a speech which stated something to the effect of "AIDS is a plague upon the gays."
Posted by TheConservative 8 years ago
TheConservative
I know I don't have the perfect grammar and sometimes I make spelling mistakes as well. However I when I open an argument and I don't see any resemblance even an attempt to speak English is when I make corrections.

The truth is I really don't have time for this. So I am done with this site, I am not saying I should have won I know I lost perfectly acceptable I didn't have time to sit on the internet.
Posted by left_wing_mormon 8 years ago
left_wing_mormon
Ok, look:

The idea that this site is somehow over populated with liberals doesn't hold water. I had a debate about Obama being "a dangerous president" and right now it's tied 13-13. Don't try and think you lost this debate because "liberals" out number "conservatives" on this website. It is very possible that you lost this debate just becuase...you lost, I guess...

The reason why everyone here in this debate is going after you, TheConservative, is because you went after my spelling and grammer and yet you still had an incorrect usage of a word. I am not the greatest speller in the world, as you were so gracious to point out. But you messed up. Admit it, ok? So just go on with your life, you look very ignorant, and by continuing to respond to the people here is providing more fodder for us.
Posted by TheConservative 8 years ago
TheConservative
Alright sorry for my tardiness apparently you all have much more time than I have to sit on the computer.

Well first of all you can check every dictionary in the English language the word "ALOT" is not a word. Now you can say A LOT but the actual combination of the letters is not a word so Leethal you still corrected a correct spelling with a word that does not exist.

Second of all I apologize I use an instant spell checker and since I typed to word alot with no space my checker automatically corrected the word into a verb that does not fit.

I find it funny that everyone who reads this argument that I failed to deliver is attacking me on the side lines because I am part of the very small percent of conservatives on this website. You look threw my entire debate and find one word that does not fit.

I opened the debate and right in the beginning are two words spelled incorrectly, and then you find 1 verb in the wrong place and try and correct it with a word that does not exist attempting to make yourself seem intelligent because you disagree with my politics.

I am sorry sir your still the idiot.
Posted by leethal 8 years ago
leethal
I'd bet he's spellchecking his post right now, and so we should have it within a day or two.
Posted by Rousseau 8 years ago
Rousseau
I, for one, am curious as to whether he'll post back.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by livi 8 years ago
livi
TheConservativeleft_wing_mormonTied
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