The Instigator
SeventhProfessor
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
SocialismBeatsGreed
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Rebecca Black's "Friday" is the greatest religious song created in the past decade.

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Post Voting Period
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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/27/2014 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,095 times Debate No: 44700
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (0)

 

SeventhProfessor

Pro

My opponent must choose a different religious song, and make the case for why it's better than Friday. Round one for acceptance and naming your song only.
SocialismBeatsGreed

Con

Hello to my opponent.

As wished by my opponent, I will simply write a few sentences summarizing my acceptance and stating the song that I believe is the greatest religious song of the past decade.

Firstly, I agree to oppose Pro's resolution that "Rebecca Black's "Friday" is the greatest religious song created in the past decade."

Since my opponent left the term "song" undefined, I have no clue as to whether my opponent wishes to include instrumentals or not. My original song choice was the instrumental "Inchworm" by Battles. This music does not include words, however, and thus I realize it is not a song under some more strict definitions of the word. After a thorough brainstorming session, I have decided that the song "Doing It Right" by the electronic-music duo Daft Punk, from their album Random Access Memories, is the greatest religious song created in the past decade.

In summary, I look forward to the debate and wish my opponent luck!
Debate Round No. 1
SeventhProfessor

Pro

I'd like to thank SocialismBeatsGreed for accepting. Before reading further, please listen to the full song, which can be found here. Clearly not religious, right? Wrong. Allow me to explain with a line-by-line analysis of the song (Note: I removed repeated stanzas).

Seven a.m., waking up in the morning

The beginning of a life, starting when you "wake up" Friday morning.

Gotta be fresh, gotta go downstairs

Preparing for interactions and the life that lies ahead.

Gotta have my bowl, gotta have cereal

Further preparation, and making oneself feel better.

Seein' everything, the time is goin'

Life moves fast, and your younger years go by quickly.

Tickin' on and on, everybody's rushin'

All people care about is moving on through life, not enjoyig the special moments.

Gotta get down to the bus stop

Preparing to study Hinduism.

Gotta catch my bus, I see my friends (My friends)

Getting distracted by sinful partying and neglect of religion.


Kickin' in the front seat
Sittin' in the back seat
Gotta make my mind up
Which seat can I take?

Deciding the best way to sin. Thievery, murder, oh the choices!

It's Friday, Friday
Gotta get down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend, weekend
Friday, Friday
Gettin' down on Friday
Everybody's lookin' forward to the weekend

Celebrating the one time in life where you sin, as you realize with age the truth about life and Hinduism.

Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Partyin', partyin' (Yeah)
Fun, fun, fun, fun
Lookin' forward to the weekend

While still sinning, she starts looking forward to the rest of her life, regretting her decisions, and changing.

7:45, we're drivin' on the highway
Cruisin' so fast, I want time to fly

7:45 means the day is almost over, and so is her young life. She's living the rest of it t its fullest potential.

Fun, fun, think about fun
You know what it is

Thinking about all the fun/sin she can have/commit, she believes the listeners can relate to her.

I got this, you got this
My friend is by my right,
I got this, you got this
Now you know it

She gets a group of friends to listen to her troubles, and "now [they] know it".

Yesterday was Thursday, Thursday

Before life begins.

Today i-is Friday, Friday (Partyin')
We-we-we so excited
We so excited
We gonna have a ball today

Friday represents her young life, how she enjoyed it, and how it was perhaps her favoite day.

Tomorrow is Saturday

Middle age.

And Sunday comes after ... wards

Old age, right before death. You can detectt a hint of sadness, hinting worry for this age.

I don't want this weekend to end

The weekend is her life, and she doesn't want it to be over.

R-B, Rebecca Black
So chillin' in the front seat (In the front seat)
In the back seat (In the back seat)
I'm drivin', cruisin' (Yeah, yeah)
Fast lanes, switchin' lanes
Wit' a car up on my side (Woo!)
(C'mon) Passin' by is a school bus in front of me
Makes tick tock, tick tock, wanna scream
Check my time, it's Friday, it's a weekend
We gonna have fun, c'mon, c'mon, y'all

This man is the opposite of Rebecca. While he sins in the beginning, he has no regrets, no tears, and no anxieties (sorry for the reference), but seeks sin, while doing it all through the weekend. This is why his section is much shorter, it represents his unhealthy and short life.
The next weekend represents a reincarnation, and Rebecca's experienced vey few before she will soon escape. The rapper, however, has experienced many, and will likely never break the cycle.

Now, reasons why this religious song is great:
Its religiousness is not obvious, and therefor appeals to a wider audience.
It takes very little thinnking to realize the deeper meaning, which makes the song even greater to those who think about it.

SocialismBeatsGreed

Con

Hello again. I would really like to thank my opponent for that spirited and creative analysis of Rebecca Black's Friday.

Introduction:

I have two major goals. Firstly, I will attempt to rebuke Pro's assertion that Rebecca Black's Friday is the greatest religious song of the past decade, either by showing that the song is not religious, by showing that it is not great, or by generally showing that Pro's arguments are not valid. If I successfully complete any of those, then my opponent will have failed to meet his burden of proof. Secondly, I will attempt to prove that Daft Punk's Doing it Right is the greatest religious song of the decade. If this is successful, then I will automatically disprove Pro's assertion AND satisfy my own BoP.

Before I begin my rebuttal, I would like to make the distinction between a song being religous and a song being interpretted as religious. Nearly every song could be interpretted as religious (or, in the case of Jay Z's Heaven, where he argues that we should question religion, existence, and everything else, anti-religious). It is my opinion that a song is not truly religious unless the creator intended it to be religious. When we discuss the meaning of works of art, I believe that it is the intention of the artist that determines what a song's core meaning is. Thusly, to fully satisfy our BoP about our songs being the greatest religious song created in the past decade, we must prove that the creator intended it to be religious.


Rebuttal:
I believe that Pro drastically fell short of proving that Rebecca Black's Friday was religious. It should be pointed out that Rebecca Black has not declared herself as part of any religion. Quite the opposite, she has avoided the topic entirely since becoming a musical artist. It is fairly uncommon for musicians to promote and stand for something like religion in their songs without stating what it is that they are promoting. It is almost crystal clear that the actual writer of the song, Patrice Wilson DIDN'T intend for the song to be religious. He said in several interviews that the point of the song was to be simple and relatively pointless so that it would become an earworm, the term for music that is catchy and easy for people to accidentally memorize.

Nevermind the fact that Patrice Wilson, the writer of the song, does not follow Hinduism, but he is instead a Christian, who attended a Christian school that his mother, a Christian church minister, established, and that Rebecca Black is undeclared religously. My opponent's characterization of Rebecca Black's Friday as religious - or more specifically, Hindi, is completely baseless. Pro does not present one single shred of evidence to link Rebecca Black or Patrice Wilson to Hinduism, and despite his statement that "It takes very little thinking to realize the deeper meaning [of the song]," it actually takes quite a bit of thinking to even see how one would believe that there was a deeper meaning.

If Pro proves anything by his post, it is that Friday could be interpretted as religious. Sadly, I am not even sure that he proves that. His interpretation of the song includes several stretches of the imagination. For instance, he states that when Rebecca sings about going down to the bus stop, she is actually singing about studying Hinduism. I thought this was a curious interpretation, so I did a few quick searches. I could not find one single example of a bus stop being used as a symbol of/metaphor for Hinduism. This is not the only example from his post that I found to lack validity, but it is the one that I was most baffled by. Pro says "Its religiousness is not obvious, and therefor appeals to a wider audience.", but I would argue the opposite. Its religiousness is not obvious - in fact, its almost nonexistent - and thus, fewer people are likely to view it as religious. I sincerely hope my opponent is simply trolling by this argument, but if he truly believes that Rebecca Black's Friday is religious, then I look foreward to reading his proof that the song is religious.

Argument I:
I would like to make my own argument as to why Daft Punk's Doing It Right is the greatest religious song created in the past decade.



Here's my line-by-line analysis of the song as a religiously-meaningful piece of music. Like my opponent, I have removed duplicate lines.

Doing it right

Living a sin-free and good lifestyle

Everybody will be dancing

People will enjoy their lives

And we'll be feeling it right

We will be enjoying our own lives

And be doing it right

And be living a morally and religiously correct life

When we're feeling all right

When we enjoy our moral and religious lifestyles

Everybody will be dancing tonight

Everyone will enjoy their lives.

If you do it right

If you live a religiously correct life

Let it go all night


Continue to do so for the rest of your life

Shadows on you break


Your past sins and wrongdoings will leave you

Out into the light


and become part of the "light", i.e. the moral good.

If you lose your way tonight

If your plans for life do not turn out the way you expect

That's how you know the magic's right


This is one way to know that there is a deity guiding your life.

There you have it. I have done basically the exact thing Pro has, showing that the song Doing it Right could be taken as religious. However, as I pointed out in my rebuttal, simply showing that it could be taken as religious is not a very sound argument. I will, then, show that my argument goes a step further than Pro's arugment. How? Well, it is more believably religious for two reasons:

Firstly, half of the duo that recorded this song, Thomas Bangalter, has Jewish roots, as his father was religious. Both Bangalter and his musical partner have not publicly acknowledged any religion (not unlike Rebecca Black), but no one involved in the song has made any statements to the contrary, and thus it is conceivably religious. Secondly, unlike Friday, it is NOT deeply specific. It does reference dance, which is a part of many cultures and sometimes involved with religion. Apart from dance, however, it remains vague, which allows it to be more openly interpretted as religious. Those two things extend it as a greater religious song than Rebecca Black's Friday, even though they are otherwise similar in their lack of obvious religious meaning.

In conclusion, I believe my opponent has failed to satisfy his BoP. I do not believe that I can prove that Daft Punk's Doing It Right IS the greatest religious song created in the past decade, but I do believe that I have shown that it is more likely the greatest religious song created in the past decade than Friday.

Sources:
http://www.vulture.com...
http://www.azlyrics.com...
http://gawker.com...
http://starcasm.net...
http://hollowverse.com...
http://www.rollingstone.com...

Thanks to my opponent for the opportunity of this debate. Once again, I wish him luck!

Debate Round No. 2
SeventhProfessor

Pro

"It is my opinion... I believe... to be religious"
This entire second paragraph should be ignored, as it is made clear by Con several times it is based solely on opinion [1]. Definitions don't belong in the second round, much less those based solely on opinion.

"Patrice Wilson, the writer of the song, does not follow Hinduism, but he is instead a Christian"
Even accepting your completely ridiculous limitations on what makes a song religious, this is totally irrelevant. Her parents paid money to have the song written and produced [2], and could have told them to put whatever themes they wanted in there. The parents could have said "make it Hindi, but so incredibly not obvious only a genius could realize the hidden message".

"I could not find one single example of a bus stop being used as a symbol of/metaphor for Hinduism"
People can make their own metaphors, sit doesn't have to already exist in the Hindu culture.

"Its religiousness is not obvious - in fact, its almost nonexistent - and thus, fewer people are likely to view it as religious"
My argument was that it is not obvious, and that, because of this, people of other religions can interpret their own way, and aren't put off by the religiousness of it.

I see no flaws with your interpretation, and happily accept "Doin' it Right" as religious. My opponent has not explained why it is a good religious song. My opponent makes no arguments for why "Doin' it Right" is a good religious song, simply claiming it is one, therefor not even close to meeting his BoP.

1. http://www.debate.org...
2. http://blogs.howstuffworks.com...
SocialismBeatsGreed

Con

"'It is my opinion... I believe... to be religious'
This entire second paragraph should be ignored, as it is made clear by Con several times it is based solely on opinion [1]. Definitions don't belong in the second round, much less those based solely on opinion."

Definitions don't belong in the second round? Where should I have put my definition of religious? You stated in the very first post of the debate "Round one for acceptance and naming your song only." You specifically asked for two things and nothing else in the first round of the debate, and neither of those two things were definitions. You did not define "religious" in either of your first two rounds. On top of that - I did bring up definitions in the first round. I addressed your lack of definition of the word "song" in the first round, which you seemed to ignore completely. I really fail to understand your point about my definition location. My definition of the word "religious" was definitely opinionated, as you already pointed out. I was only stating that I believed that definition of the word to be most appropriate for this debate. You have still failed to address any definition of the word "religious", thus I am left without clue as to whether or not you believe that a song is only religious if the artist intends it to be. I stated that to be my belief, but you chose to attack the validity of my statement rather than actually disagree with it.

"'Patrice Wilson, the writer of the song, does not follow Hinduism, but he is instead a Christian'
Even accepting your completely ridiculous limitations on what makes a song religious, this is totally irrelevant. Her parents paid money to have the song written and produced [2], and could have told them to put whatever themes they wanted in there. The parents could have said 'make it Hindi, but so incredibly not obvious only a genius could realize the hidden message'."

Never in my post did I say that it was impossible for Rebecca Black (or her parents) to have intended the song to be Hindi. I simply pointed out that you have absolutely no evidence that it was, whereas I have at least slight evidence that it was not, as no one involved in the writing, recording, or production of the song has any known Hindi affiliations, and at least one person involved is known NOT to be Hindi. YOU have the burden of proving that the song was religious - not I. Accepting my definition of religious (as you do briefly here to address my rebuttal), you have completely failed to prove that the song was religious. Even without accepting my definition of religious, you have at best proven that you interpret the song as religious, NOT that your reasons for the song being great as listed at the bottom of your Round 1 argument were true.

"'I could not find one single example of a bus stop being used as a symbol of/metaphor for Hinduism'
People can make their own metaphors, sit doesn't have to already exist in the Hindu culture."

People certainly can make their own metaphors. However, you have absolutely no proof that this is what she (or more accurately, Patrice Wilson) has done here. This part of my argument was attempting to show that there was no reason to believe Miss Black intended the song to be religious, which went hand in hand with my attempt to define the word religious. Since you still have yet to take a stance on my definition of the word (other than attacking my right and ability to define it when I did), I still have no better than an inference as to whether or not you agree with it. If you do not, then I can understand why you fail to see the validity of this argument.

"'Its religiousness is not obvious - in fact, its almost nonexistent - and thus, fewer people are likely to view it as religious' My argument was that it is not obvious, and that, because of this, people of other religions can interpret their own way, and aren't put off by the religiousness of it."

Thanks for restating your argument. With the statement that you quoted, I disputed the validity of that argument. Neither of us had any proof to suggest that the cloudy meaning of the song actually either helped or hindered its ability to be perceived as religious. The difference is that you were attempting to prove that the song was great because of this - I was just pointing out that your statement that its cloudiness helped it be great was completely baseless and could actually be used against it.

"I see no flaws with your interpretation, and happily accept "Doin' it Right" as religious. My opponent has not explained why it is a good religious song. My opponent makes no arguments for why "Doin' it Right" is a good religious song, simply claiming it is one, therefor not even close to meeting his BoP."

I thank my opponent for conceding that my song choice, "Doin' It Right", is religious. As for its greatness, I see no way to definitively prove that it is the greatest religious song of the past decade. I did, however, make a case as to how it was better than Friday, which is what PRO stated I must do in his Round 1 statement. I pointed out that it was vague, unlike Friday, which is helpful because it allows people to more openly interpret it as religious. Friday, on the other hand, is extremely specific. (Ex. In "Friday" Miss Black discussing making cereal. In "Doin' It Right", they never say exactly what they are referring to when they discuss "doing it right". Obviously, something vague is more likely to be interpretted as a metaphor for religion than something oddly specific about something completely related to religion.).




In summary, my opponent has still failed to prove that his song is both religious (by the only definition either of us provided for the word in this debate) and great, whereas I have presented arguments that show that "Doin' It Right" is both religious (via my opponent's concession stating this) and at least greater than Rebecca Black's Friday (which is all that I was required to do according to my opponent's statement in round 1.).

Sources:
The vast majority of my post was a general rebuke of my opponent's logic (or lack thereof), for which I needed no notable sources apart from the earlier rounds in the debate. Posting any external links here would only serve to waste the reader's time and inflate the number of sources I have used in this debate, and I see no reason to do either.

I look foreward to the final round of this debate, and as always I wish my opponent luck!
Debate Round No. 3
SeventhProfessor

Pro

"You did not define 'religious' in either of your first two rounds. On top of that - I did bring up definitions in the first round"

It was my impression that words such as "religious" and "song", of which almost everyone knows he meanings, definitions were not needed. When a word with an obvious definition comes up, and there are no definitions, there is no need to define it. When it's defined later and incorrectly, a debate can easily be derailed [1]. I'd be happy to debate you on what makes a song religious some other time, but I currently have several other debates going on. The obvious definition, however, is "of or pertaining to religion".

"YOU have the burden of proving that the song was religious"

I don't, a song or poem can be interpreted more than one way. Friday gave a very clear physical experience, that could easily mean plenty of things metaphorically. I happen to interpret it religiously, even if you don't.

"I was just pointing out that your statement that its cloudiness helped it be great was completely baseless and could actually be used against it."

But in no way does it hinder it. The amount of people that have been to school on a Friday is greater than the number of people who are Hindi, and the song relates to more people when taken literally. This helps widen the audience, and makes the song easier to relate to.

While your song may be more vague, and easier to interpret as religious, it is incredibly repetitive, much more so than Friday. This clearly highlights one of the biggest negatives of religion, indoctrination and hypnosis. While the other themes you pointed out were valid, this one is clearly one of the more prominent.

1. http://www.debate.org...
SocialismBeatsGreed

Con

It was my impression that words such as "religious" and "song", of which almost everyone knows he meanings, definitions were not needed. When a word with an obvious definition comes up, and there are no definitions, there is no need to define it. When it's defined later and incorrectly, a debate can easily be derailed [1]. I'd be happy to debate you on what makes a song religious some other time, but I currently have several other debates going on. The obvious definition, however, is "of or pertaining to religion".

Your impression was incorrect, as both “song” and “religious” have skewed lines of where they begin and end. For “song”, music without lyrical content falls into a grey area. For “religious”, material without clear religious intent falls into a grey area as well. I pointed these clear lines of grey out in my previous posts, and made it clear that my definition of “religious” was that the material must have an intention to be religious.

Your source is actually very helpful in this scenario. In that debate, Pro failed to define DNA, because of his assumption that it was clear. Con then won the debate based on the fact that the acronym “DNA” was ambiguous, just like the exact definition of “religious” is ambiguous in this debate. When the maker of the debate clearly fails to provide definitions for something that he believes is obvious, a game of semantics can ensue, just like it has in this debate. Since you failed to define the word religious (and you failed to state where definitions would be stated at) you cannot fault me for using my definition of religious for my arguments, nor are you in the right for saying that I “incorrectly” defined the term. That is the definition that I thought was fitting for the word religious. If you don’t like it, then I suggest you be more specific in future debates and clearly define terms that could be interpreted multiple ways. It is a lesson that I also hope Pro learned in the debate that you cited.

But in no way does it hinder it. The amount of people that have been to school on a Friday is greater than the number of people who are Hindi, and the song relates to more people when taken literally. This helps widen the audience, and makes the song easier to relate to.

While your song may be more vague, and easier to interpret as religious, it is incredibly repetitive, much more so than Friday. This clearly highlights one of the biggest negatives of religion, indoctrination and hypnosis. While the other themes you pointed out were valid, this one is clearly one of the more prominent.

You have absolutely no proof that it doesn’t hinder it, which you pair beautifully with a complete lack of proof that it helps it connect with a wider audience. The song’s lack of religious context and distinct detail about going to school on a Friday works to ensure that very few people interpret it as religious. You argue that Rebecca Black created her own metaphors, and this is why I didn’t find waiting at a bus stop to be a known religious metaphor. Yet, you fail to acknowledge that this contributes to the fact that the song does not seem very religious. I have looked through several reviews of the song, some of which I will cite in the comments, and not a single review interprets the song religiously. This shows that the song is not often interpreted as religious (in fact, your argument here may very well be the first documented example of someone doing so). The lack of religious context with this song DEFINITELY hinders its ability to be religious, because it directly causes people not to interpret the song as religious. The same could be said for “Doin’ It Right”, I suppose. The glaring difference, however, is that “Doin’ It Right” is vague, and it allows the listener to interpret for themselves what it is that is being done right. “Friday”, however, is very specific in that it is about going to school on a Friday, thus listeners are less likely to make their own interpretations.

I will now provide a summary of the debate, and show that I should be the victor in this debate based on a lack of clarity and proof from my opponent.

Firstly, I should state that to win this debate, we need to do two things - prove that the song is religious, and prove that it is the greatest song created in the past decade in terms of being religious.

In round one, I accepted the debate and attempted to clarify the meaning of the word “song”, as my opponent provided absolutely no definitions in his opening statement or any indication that definitions would be provided anywhere in the debate. He ignored this entirely, forcing me to continue with the song “Doin’ It Right” instead of my original choice, an instrumental music piece by the band Battles called “Inchworm”.

In round two, I attempted to clarify my definition of “religious”, showing that I believed that a song was not religious unless it was intended to be religious. I argued very clearly that it was extremely unlikely that Rebecca Black intended for her song “Friday” to be religious, while it was somewhat more likely that the song “Doin’ It Right” would be religious. My opponent provided a questionable interpretation of the song “Friday”.

In round three, my opponent argued that my definition was incorrect, and even that it “didn’t belong” in the debate, even though there was no other definitions of the word. If we don’t know what constitutes “religious”, then how can we prove that a song is or is not a good religious song? He also completely agreed that my song was religious, thus satisfying my burden to prove that the song was religious. I also rebuked his song as religious under my definition, and argued that his song was not a good religious song because it was difficult to interpret it as religious.

In this round, he states that he does not need to prove that his song is religious, simply because he can interpret it as that, and I made the arguments seen in the first half of this post.

In conclusion, our BoP was separated into three categories: 1. Burden to prove that it was religious under my definition, 2. Burden to prove that it was religious under his definition, and 3, burden to prove that it was great. I automatically satisfied one and two, as he conceded that my song was religious. My opponent, however, never satisfied number 1. In this round, I show that he also failed to satisfy 3, while my song is at least more likely to be religious.

I am running short on time, so I will provide sources in the comments.

Vote Con!



Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by SeventhProfessor 3 years ago
SeventhProfessor
Well, that's disappointing.
Posted by SocialismBeatsGreed 3 years ago
SocialismBeatsGreed
@SP lol yeah I just refreshed the tab and saw it there. Maybe I was too hasty with that comment. :P

As promised in my R4, here are the sources (they are also posted in the Google Doc which I just linked to in the last post.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
http://music-mix.ew.com...
http://music.yahoo.com...
http://metro.co.uk...
http://www.billboard.com...
http://www.business2community.com...
Posted by SeventhProfessor 3 years ago
SeventhProfessor
No worries, the argument posted successfully.
Posted by SocialismBeatsGreed 3 years ago
SocialismBeatsGreed
I just attempted to submit my argument for round four with roughly one minute remaining on the timer, but for some reason it said that the round was already in the voting period. At the time of this comment, I am exactly five minutes late for posting. I have no idea about the error, but it should be pretty obvious that I was at most a few minutes late. Here is the link to the Google Doc where the last round of my debate is posted:

http://goo.gl...
Posted by SocialismBeatsGreed 3 years ago
SocialismBeatsGreed
Good enough of a combo for the song to be de-facto religious?

I may have just found my argument for round 3.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
Panda Bear + Daft Punk = Dangerously good combo
Posted by SocialismBeatsGreed 3 years ago
SocialismBeatsGreed
Thanks kbub, now I have nightmares.

I joke, but that thing is seriously scary.
Posted by kbub 3 years ago
kbub
I think this is relevant:
No votes have been placed for this debate.