Rebellion and revolution is possible in America today
Debate Rounds (5)
I'll be attempting to prove that rebellion and revolution are possible in America today.
Con's job would be to disprove that it is possible by asserting counter arguments & debunking my claims, and summarizing why it isn't possible.
I'm not looking to boost my score, I could care less. I'm looking for a good argument, and I'd rather not get into semantics or personnel attacks. I could care less if your spelling or grammar is poor, as long as your arguments and points are strong.
Round 1 - acceptance.
Round 2 - initial arguments.
Rounds 3 & 4 - no holds bar, counter if you want, make new points, etc.
Round 5 - no holds bar, must include Conclusions.
The ideal Con would have a government job, have military background, be financially secure & have a family (as a person of these attributes is least likely to think that a revolution is possible).
I believe rebellion and revolution are possible in America today. I believe that causes (a) and means (b) are present for this.
1. Voting - In 2012, only 146,311,000 people registered to vote for the presidential election. This is significantly lower than the estimated US population during 2012, which was 313,900,000. These figures tell us that only 46% of the total population engage in voting. The majority does not vote; there are several reasons that could explain this. One could be that the majority do not agree with the present government model and therefore do not participate.
2. Grievances - The American economy is slowly taking a downturn. With more regulation, small businesses find it more difficult to start up and be sustainable. Large business slowly choose to go to other countries. This leaves people without jobs, and they must live on welfare or turn to crime. The undermining of the constitution and amendments is becoming greater as time passes. Each law that has limited the amendments decreases the freedom available. Laws that undermine the amendments and constitution can be seen as tyrannical as they attack the constitution and amendments. The police state is rising, and there is little accountability for unlawfully acting officers within internal affairs.
3. Symptoms of trouble - Protests are a regular occurrence now, and many are purposely shunned by the government and the media. For instance, large protests concerning the facts surrounding the 9/11 attacks have happened. Yet many people are unaware that these protests ever took place due to the little media coverage that they have received. Protests are a symptom of grievances that show people have underlying troubles. Trust in government plays a large role in causes for rebellion also. The trend seems to be that most people do not trust the U.S. Government. This gives light to how many people may participate in an active rebellion.
1. Technology - Privacy technology has increased, allowing common people to store files securely, and communicate securely via computers and handheld smart devices. These communications can greatly aid in keeping meetings and communications secure during a rebellion.
(for some reason, DdO didn't post the original links to those Wikipedia articles correctly, so I made Bitly links for them)
2. Non-monitored locations - Although more and more places have surveillance, there are still locations where people can meet without fear of being monitored. The outskirts of towns are abundant with areas that are relatively unoccupied. The centers within large parks could also be used. Participants can take out the batteries of any smart devices prior to meeting to further ensure privacy.
3. Weapons - the United States of America is ranked 1st in civilian gun ownership ratio per 100, and ranked overall as having the most civilian owned firearms in the world with 270,000,000 estimated civilian owned small arms. The United States is 1st in ratios with 89 guns per 100 people.
4. Logistics of ammunition - There is a substantial amount of ammo that is in possession of the people, or nearby that can be acquired from stores. Aside from this fact, the United States is ranked among the top 15 countries in the world for ammunition production. Annual World production of small arms ammunition float around 16 billion rounds, and can go up to 21 billion rounds. An estimated 39% of this is produced in America. It's reasonable to assume that some of these production facilities would either support a rebellion or be captured by the rebelling common man army.
5. Education level and knowledge - Education standards have rose, which makes people overall better at reading, comprehending, and critical thinking. With this, the ability to follow instructions naturally follow. There are ample information sources available on the internet that give instruction on how to produce home made binary explosives such as ANFO. There are further instructions on how to make detonating devices. With better knowledge and comprehending abilities, it's within the general populations grasps to effectively organize and fight.
6. State secession - It is probable that numerous states will secede in the event of large public cry for revolution. When a state does secede, they would then provide great organizational means and resources for the rebelling forces. This is outlined in James Madison's federalist paper #46.
7. Foreign response - Some foreign countries may have a vested interest in seeing the United States Federal Government overturned. It's highly probable that these countries would supply military grade weapons to rebelling forces, ammunition and other supplies. If the federal government chooses to use deadly force against rebelling forces, there may be direct consequences from foreign countries who may assist rebelling forces with troops. This is very similar to the United States itself supplying funding and supplies, training, and sometimes even troops to rebels in foreign countries.
Thank you again for this debate, and I eagerly await your initial argument.
1. American views on freedom- 79% of Americans believe that it is a free country. The 79% is 237 million Americans out of the 300,000,000 Americans. Most of the people that don't believe that it is a free country are very educated, and have a college degree. But the 79% of America make up the majority of America are still under the illusion that this country is free, therefore they would not have a reason to revolt.
2. Who do Americans blame- According to Pewsocial, The average middle class American blames congress for the well-being of the middle class. They don't blame "The American Government", but the "Republicans" for there well-being. This is result to people supporting Obama, and listening to MSNBC. But the average middle class American still view this country as being free.
3. The new generation- According to Pewsocial, the new generation has high hopes for there futures. 71% believe that Obama is going to fix this economy, and is going to turn around. In that percentage, we see teenagers that think that they are going to become famous, popular, and accumulate lots of money when there older. Also this percentage thinks that America is still free.
4. Newstations- There was a lawsuit on Fox News publicly lying to its viewers about a case that is "unknown to a lot of people". Fox News went free, because in the first amendment it protects free speech. So basically news stations can say anything they want to on TV. So if there is a potential threat to the American Government, it either won't be covered by news stations, or be lied about to the public. I think that my opponent agrees that a rebellion could happen in America, but what this argument says is that even if it does happen, news stations will lie about it, or not cover it.
5. Military Budget- So lets say that the rebellion does happen, and it gets so strong that it is able to take on the government. We spent 769 billion dollars on our military budget. In 2014, it has went over a trillion dollars. This makes America's military in the top ten militaries. Even though people might have lots of guns, America will always have more.
I would also like to thank my opponent for starting this debate, and giving me a warm welcome which is usually not done in other debates.
For your point #1, I'd like to say that the article you referenced for the statistic of "79% of Americans believe that it is a free country. " comes from an article entitled: "Americans Less Satisfied With Freedom", therein describing a downward trend in the number of Americans that believe they live in a free country. The trend (according to this reference) has been steadily falling for the last seven years. I think it's safe to say the trend will continue, thus promoting the idea of rebellion and revolution.
For your point #2, I haven't found any direct reference to the people blaming republicans specifically. Here is a quote from your reference:
"Of those who feel this way, 62% say "a lot" of the blame lies with Congress, while 54% say the same about banks and financial institutions, 47% about large corporations, 44% about the Bush administration, 39% about foreign competition and 34% about the Obama administration. Just 8% blame the middle class itself a lot."
It would seem that most people blame congress as a whole for the economy and disappearing middle class, and that most people do not trust congress and believe that there is wide-sweeping corruption in congress.
For your point #3, I'm having difficulty with finding the figure you cited, that 71% believe Obama is going to fix the economy. You did reference Pewsocial, and the number '71%' only appears in the article you provided a link for one time, and it's not referencing Obama, it's referencing Romney's policies.
For point #4, Your point made about News stations being able to lie is a tragic fact indeed. However; in the dawn of social media and smart devices in the hands of everyone, and YouTube channels that can have as many subscribers as those willing to click the 'subscribe' button, I feel that major media outlets are a dying breed. I'll use myself as an example. I don't watch TV, in fact I don't own one. I also only listen to 'public radio' in my car, or a CD because I don't like the commercials and bias of stations. I depend largely on independent journalists, Yahoo news, and Google News search results to learn about what's going on in the world. Using Google News search results allows me to read about one topic from several sources of varying viewpoints. I think that broadcast mainstream news is going the way of Newspapers. Less and less younger people care about them. I myself just view them as noise boxes that are unwanted, unneeded and cause more trouble than good. A time is soon coming when the major news outlets will be replaced by a new platform.
However, I'd like to entertain the thought of mainstream media not covering protests. There's an old saying that goes something like "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable." I think that saying is true. And I believe that each and every single time that the people of America protest in vain, we get that much closer to rebellion. Every peaceful protest that accomplishes nothing gets us closer to rebellion. Every ignored protest gets us that much closer to rebellion. For, if peaceful protests don't work and aren't allowed to work, then something else will eventually happen that will work - and that often means violence.
For instance, in Saint Louis, Missouri right now, Governor Jay Nixon says that people can peacefully protest, but violence will not be tolerated. This is concerning the Michael Brown shooting. When those people's protests accomplish nothing, when their demands are not met by local police, local city officials, and county officials, their protests are in vain. They have demanded a 48 hour notice for the grand jury decision, and this will likely go unfilled. They've demanded the immediate arrest of the officer that shot Michael Brown. An ordinary citizen who shot someone else in similar circumstances would generally go to jail and then be bailed out, maybe. The protesters have also demanded other things as well, which will go unfilled. Their protests count for nothing, because nothing has changed, no demands filled, nothing accomplished.
If you look at successful non-violent protests that were generally peaceful, they are often successful due to martyrs, or deaths that many perceive as a martyr. For instance, black rights to vote came at the expense of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. being assassinated. His martyr-ism created an enormous momentum for the movement.
So, my counter argument to point number 4 would be that protests that aren't allowed to peacefully make progress, protests whose demands are not met, or ignored; will only eventually lead to violent protests, and eventual organization into rebellion.
For point #5, I would like to point out that even though large sums of money is spent on the military budget, American forefathers were able to repel foreign forces during the american revolution with less than the enemy was spending. Also, The U.S. government has shown time and time again that it is unable to respond properly to Guerrilla warfare; as is evidenced by the Vietnam War, the Iraq War, the Afghanistan War, and other similar "Police Actions" that are unconstitutional (and therefore tyrannical) wars because war was never declared.
Ariesx forfeited this round.
I think that he's simply busy, and I don't have any additional arguments to make at this particular moment.
So I'm going to respectfully pass this round.
1. My opponent says in point 1 "2012, only 146,311,000 people registered to vote for the presidential election. This is significantly lower than the estimated US population during 2012, which was 313,900,00. These figures tell us that only 46% of the total population engage in voting". This argument is pure speculation, and not fact. According to americanprogress, between 30 and 40% of nonvoters are young, and uneducated. Alot of these people just do not have the knowledge of voting. My opponent's first argument is more of a speculation.
2. My opponent also has tried to use the technology argument to prove that people can communicate secretly. The NSA program if I have to remind everyone is still here. It won't go away. NSA collects information from computers, phones, and other forms of internet based devices. It would seem very fishy if a computer had its ip address(computer address) turned off for long periods of time. Secret communications can be ruled as irrelevant.
3. The government spends over 16 trillion dollars on our military. Our military can handle a rebellion. Also statistically proven, people who are interested in guns lies in the deep south. And these people are very patriotic about there country. Also, America still holds one of the best military weapons, and cybernetic intelligence in the world. America can use its tanks, its drones, its automatic rifles etc, to fend off a large attack.
4. Educated people would also know that other countries don't even let their people get as educated as Americans. And, even if you are educated, you would probably somewhere above the low middle class.
5. If their ever is a rebellion, newsrooms, and upper-class men will get involved. Alot of people will try to spend money trying to give these people a bad reputation. America's NSA programs can even shut down YouTube channels if they wanted. You Tubers can get blocked for doing this. Also, Google has the ability to be shutdown be the government which will threaten their business.
Good Luck with your next argument!
wayne.workman2012 forfeited this round.
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