The Instigator
GeminiContractor
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
tonton17
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Rehabilitation is more efficient than imprisonment.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
GeminiContractor
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/1/2014 Category: Society
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 860 times Debate No: 61139
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (0)
Votes (1)

 

GeminiContractor

Pro

Currently, the legal system operates using a "trash containment" or "trash incineration" approach.
This approach seems to use a lot of money, and since they are throwing so many people into prisons, they seem to be running out of room for people in those prisons.
https://www.aclu.org...

If the legal system were to adopt a "trash recycling" approach, there would be a large amount of money saved and a significant increase in the progress of humanity.
This approach would utilize rehabilitation instead of punishment.

Rehabilitation would consist of:
1. Curing those with mental disorders.
2. Reeducating those who have acquired harmful mindsets.
3. Training for jobs where more people are needed, or where they would greatly help humanity to progress further.

Of course, rehabilitation would only be feasible if/when cures for various mental disorders are developed, and it would be more effective if preventive measures were taken to ensure that there were less or no future crimes.
However, the development of those cures and the details of those preventive measures are not the focus of this debate.

Though the benefit may not be seen for some time during the initial execution of this approach, over time it would prove effective in eliminating crime and encouraging growth in many fields.
As such, rehabilitation is more efficient than imprisonment.
tonton17

Con

I do not believe that "trash recycling" would save a lot of money as we need tons of rehabilitation counselors. Rehabilitation for those with mental disorders are already available so that is not a problem.

If the prisons are already soon full how are we going to get a counselor for every prisoner? That's far too much for rehabilitation centers too handle. And to reeducate those with already harmed minds is not an easy task. As many prisoners have had a bad childhood to therefore commit crimes, their mindset are totally different and it's been that way their whole life. We can't just like come in from nowhere and change it with ease. Also, just by we giving them rehabilitation does not mean that everyone will accept it. We are forcing them to do it and it is not the same as themselves doing it.

If we are going to train the prisoners for specific jobsectors, then we also need teachers. They need payment too and therefore we also need classrooms and other things a school require. A lot of the prisoner are most likely to not have any base knowleadge either of the subject. We can't like make them all too mathematicians as the gap is too big. All of the prisoners have not the same amount of knowleadge either, we basically need to adjust the learningmaterial to fit each person.

Imprisonment on the otherside is much more less costly. We don't need to employ teahcers and counselors. We just need guards, and even if we chose to go with rehabilitation, guards are still required. Prisoners don't change overnight and are therefore still harmful. This system though also needs the government to pay for food and get them a place ti live which is quite a bother but if we have the rehabilitation system, where are the prisoners going to live and who provides food? The state or themselves? If it's the state then it's clearly not less costly. But if they are going to get them a home and food themselves then that means they can still live in the society even if they have commited a crime. We can't let criminals roam around in cities and such.

There is a chance that prisoners will think about what they have done wrong and change that when they are in the prison. And after they get out change into a better person, without rehabilitation. With your system there is far too little punishment and they may not think of e.g. murder as bad as it really is. Though the chance for change is little and rehabilitation is more effective but costs too much.
Debate Round No. 1
GeminiContractor

Pro

I do not believe that "trash recycling" would save a lot of money as we need tons of rehabilitation counselors.

Initially, no, it wouldn't save money.
However, as I said, over time it would help.

Rehabilitation for those with mental disorders are already available so that is not a problem.

This is still a problem actually, as many disorders are not solvable by psychotherapy alone.
However, as I said, the solution to this is another topic.

If the prisons are already soon full how are we going to get a counselor for every prisoner?
That's far too much for rehabilitation centers too handle.

We start making it easier and cheaper for citizens to go to college for learning on how to be a counselor.
To avoid having those who are not suited to counseling counsel the prisoners, they would need to go through several tests to see if they are capable of properly rehabilitating them.
Also, not all prisoners would be immediately sent for rehabilitation.

And to reeducate those with already harmed minds is not an easy task.
As many prisoners have had a bad childhood to therefore commit crimes, their mindset are totally different and it's been that way their whole life.
We can't just like come in from nowhere and change it with ease.

Indeed, there will be a need of skillfull counselors who are good at problem-solving and are able to put time into involving themselves in their patients' lives.

Also, just by we giving them rehabilitation does not mean that everyone will accept it.
We are forcing them to do it and it is not the same as themselves doing it.

I realize this.
I see little problem with forcing them though, as they are being forced to be imprisoned and, in some cases, forced to die, anyway.
Plus, they might not realize or even be able to realize the benefits of having a sound mind and having the ability to live a better life.

If you mean that the problem is that the prisoners aren't the ones saying that they want be rehabilitated, and that it is a problem because the public only considers them as being better people if they choose to do it themselves, then we would need to convince the public that the reasons are good, and attempt to dissolve their ire and beliefs toward prisoners.

If we are going to train the prisoners for specific jobsectors, then we also need teachers.
They need payment too and therefore we also need classrooms and other things a school require.

Indeed.

You could try to get computers and teaching software however, so you would only need computer repair technicians to repair the computers.

Though, the computers would probably need to be placed in durable cases with a hole in the wall behind the computers, the teaching and OS software and other important areas of the computer would need to be undeleteable/unmodifiable, and there would have to be no way for the computers to connect to the internet.

A lot of the prisoner are most likely to not have any base knowleadge either of the subject.
We can't like make them all too mathematicians as the gap is too big.
All of the prisoners have not the same amount of knowleadge either, we basically need to adjust the learningmaterial to fit each person.

The prisoners would take several tests to find their knowledge, skills, intelligence, etc.
They would then be set in the class appropriate for them.
Some likely wouldn't need teaching however, and they would be able to be placed into a job without it.

Imprisonment on the otherside is much more less costly.
We don't need to employ teahcers and counselors.
We just need guards, and even if we chose to go with rehabilitation, guards are still required.

It is only more costly if you look at it in the short run.
If you think about it in the long run it is the more cost-effective of the two.

As I explained, coupled with prevention, we would see crime rates go down, and since we would be teaching them, there would be more skilled people available for jobs that need them.

It's kind of like how solar panels may seem more costly at the beginning, but after the Sun's energy saves you the amount of money that the panels costed, you start seeing more money saved.

Prisoners don't change overnight and are therefore still harmful.

Not true.
If someone did things wrong because of a mental disorder, and they were cured of that mental disorder and any others they might have, they could possibly change overnight and end up being less harmful (about as harmful as an average person at least)
If someone did things wrong because of a harmful mindset, and they were convinced that they should not be like that, and they had their bad old habits replaced with good new ones, they could also possibly change overnight.

This system though also needs the government to pay for food and get them a place ti live which is quite a bother but if we have the rehabilitation system, where are the prisoners going to live and who provides food?
The state or themselves? If it's the state then it's clearly not less costly.
But if they are going to get them a home and food themselves then that means they can still live in the society even if they have commited a crime.
We can't let criminals roam around in cities and such.

They would live in the prisons as they do now until their rehabiltation finished.
Either way, it seems that more prisons, or expanded prisons will be needed.

There is a chance that prisoners will think about what they have done wrong and change that when they are in the prison.
And after they get out change into a better person, without rehabilitation.
With your system there is far too little punishment and they may not think of e.g. murder as bad as it really is.
Though the chance for change is little and rehabilitation is more effective but costs too much.

Only a few would change on their own, and that would not improve the current state of things.

As for there being too little punishment.
They will be working and living in prisons the same as they have been.
Not only that, but punishment is only a means to an end.
So, if you achieve that end, it doesn't matter if there was punishment or not.
There are ways, I'm sure, of getting them to realize just how bad the crimes are.
If you find those ways and they are effective, yet you still value punishment more than fixing the problem, then you're holding onto an archaic mindset.

As for cost.
As I said above it is only more costly if you look at it in the short run.
tonton17

Con

tonton17 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
GeminiContractor

Pro

Nothing further.
tonton17

Con

tonton17 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
No comments have been posted on this debate.
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by dynamicduodebaters 3 years ago
dynamicduodebaters
GeminiContractortonton17Tied
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Total points awarded:30 
Reasons for voting decision: FF