The Instigator
SkepticalDefender
Pro (for)
Winning
6 Points
The Contender
Jonnykelly
Con (against)
Losing
4 Points

Religion brainwashes humanity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
SkepticalDefender
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/3/2015 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 857 times Debate No: 71007
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (3)

 

SkepticalDefender

Pro

Religion, oh we all know what that is. That pesky book called the bible. The great figment of imagination. It's why rebublicans exist. It's why there are many ignorant people in this world.

OUR GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD, HE RAINS FROM HEAVEN ABOVE WITH WISDOM, POWER AND LOVE, OUR GOD IS AN AWESOME GOD!

Truly does love people. BUT NOT GAYS OR TRANS! No way, we hate those people because of... Reasons right? Because they're "evil". Becuase there is not love if it is no between man and women. Because you know if you choose the wrong mate you'll be thrown into the lake of fire, right?

Let's be honest, God is nothing but a homophobic, transphobic, narcissistic, insecure, prejudiced and bigoted moron, like many of his followers. God wipes out humanity, kills 2,000,000 people, satan kills 10 and for some reason, LETS WORSHIP A MASS MURDERER. While I do not agree either exists, if I had to choose one it would be satan and they have better music in hell anyways.

There is no "freedom" with "religion". You will not love who you want, you will not play with your genetallia that has the urge to ejacualte, the feeling God gave you in the first place, and created. If a women is raped, the rapist just pay 50 gold to her father and she'll be forced to marry her very rapist. Stone people with different opinions.

Let's be clear, How can God want so much attention? Imagine how many people who died and are now in "heaven". Gods getting lots of praise. God and heaven, are nothing but a dictatorship. The people see God as a God, but God gives them nothing. The bible is a book of lies, a simple list of broken philosophies that many Christians will deny. And those who do are normally the indoctrinated people who can't grasp the idea of reality, so they instead cling to their bible, afraid of death, so afraid that they comfort themselves thinking YAYYY ILL GO TO HEAVEN!

What about let's say, mentally handicapped people? People who cannot grasp the idea of a creator?(for all I know that persons probobly smarter then you, Christians). Shall they burn in hell too, with no option? YEP
GOD LOVES YOU SOOOOO VERY MUCH

Telling your kids fairy tales don't exist
Parent: Hey, you know that Santa claus, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny don't exist right
Kid: Yeah I'm smart enough to know that
Parent: Okay so you know that things that are supernatural but have no evidence to support the claims of do not exist(a.k.a these things) right?
Kid: So you mean God dosen't exist?
Parent: HEY DONT TALK ABOUT GOD LIKE THAT!!!
Jonnykelly

Con

Since there is no rubric for debate, no organization at all, and my opponent starts by saying that Religion = the Bible, and generally his whole argument is emotional rant and hate against a certain group, I will be the one to supply reason to this argument.

Without religion in this world, Humanity would fall apart. I am not foolish or cocky enough to believe that my religion specifically is what holds the earth together, but simple logic tells us that religion brings stability and peace to the earth.

Again, not all religion is perfect, and some can be downright dangerous, but on the whole, stable, intelligent religions preach peace. Christianity, Judaism, Hindu and Buddhism (I acknowledge that these are only half-religions, half-ways of life.), and many factions of Islam provide good standards for life. They command their followers to love each other, and others in the world. They preach against murder, they condemn lying, hatred, abuse, and immorality. It is because so many people of this world follow these morals that our World can stand upright.

So far the only arguments that have come out of my opponent have been hateful, ignorant slander that have gotten him nowhere. I am interested to hear if he has any real evidence. I intend to cite sources in the final round.
Debate Round No. 1
SkepticalDefender

Pro

Okay, now it's time to debate and get serious

You say it is a religion of "peace". No, not at all. If it was a religion of peace, I don't know the bible says stone gays and people who don't believe, people get kicked out of their parents homes because the bible said, when you support the bible you support the whole thing, you just cherry pick out the good parts and twist their meaning, that is blasphemy.

Second of, their is no evidence of a god at all, not one piece, of evolution and the Big Bang, yes. When you take a moment to think about how religion affects society, you'll notice. But no it does not bring your peace. If one person disagrees, it's a fight, if my kid was a christian, I would be fine with that, that's his choice, not mine, but if you want to be an atheist, that's a totally different story, you have to agree with EVERYTHING.

It's even more painful if you find out you're a homosexual and you think God is going to love you. Truth is he wants you to burn in hell. Religion causes fights, mocks and discriminates, a book of hate. Can you not see through your biased lies? How much evidence do you need? You say we mock you, when your religion is full of hate, I'm all for mocking it.

Face it, if religion didn't exist we wouldn't have groups like ISIS around, now would we? It's the main reason why gays get so much hate. For something as minor as who you mate with.

1) get raped, rapist pays 50 silver to your father, you're then forced to marry your rapist
2) after the age of 12, you can sell your daughter as a slave
3) stone gay people, for a feeling God has given them without choice, proven not a choice by the way
4) kill atheists or people of other religions other then Christianity
5) slaves, serve your masters as you would christ
6) owners do not kill your slaces, unless they take a brake for a day or two, for they are your property

God really loves women, and also supports slavery, and also decided to put a g-spot in a mans butt, and make it feel good. Real nice God, I'm starting to hear some hypocrisy

Give me one good reason I should believe in a divine creator, and why your creator, instead of another one?
Jonnykelly

Con

So far, your only argument revolves around the homosexual agenda. And I remind you, this is not a debate about Christianity, it is about religion as a whole. I never suggested that my creator is superior, nor did I suggest you should believe in him over other gods.

Your claims about Christianity (I presume that is the religion you are attacking) are false. The God of the Christians does not say "stone homosexuals", "stone unbelievers", or any of your other vicious emotional claims.

You spend a great deal of discussion on attempting to slander the credibility of religion, but that also, is not the subject of debate.

Christians believe that God loves all, and therefore, we should love all. Thus, we wish to correct the ways of those who do wrong. Among these people are murderers, rapists, and yes, those who call themselves homosexual. Whether or not this is something you agree with is not up for question. Your 1,2,3,4,6 points have no truth whatsoever to Judaism nor Christianity. Your 5 point is true, and there is nothing wrong with it. We should put all our effort into our jobs, no matter what they are.

God does no support slavery, but he tells those in that position to work to the best of their abilities in that position. Your inappropriate comments about male anatomy, as well as the term "gays", and your unprofessional tone make you look unprofessional. I advise you to start attempting to be a good debater and control your emotions.

My opponent has failed to answer to my claims about morals provided by religion, and has only provided downright false information about one specific religion. His hateful, close minded, unprofessional tone shows this argument for what it is. Concentrated, raw hate, with no specific purpose other than to please itself with the slander of others.

My opponent says he would be fine with his son being Christian, yet how can he if he has so much hate for a group that has been so beneficial to society?
Debate Round No. 2
SkepticalDefender

Pro

Okay again, it's obvious you haven't read the entire bible.

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - (Exodus 21:7-11)

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her. - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.- Deuteronomy 22:23-24

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. - (Exodus 21:7-11)

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 )

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21)

these are just few lines, i can write about another 100 lines... I'm still surprised how a person can be Christian even after reading bible
Jonnykelly

Con

Now my opponent has actually started debating. But he still only attacks Christianity, and that is not what this debate is about. He has shown reasons why the Bible is bad, but once again, that is not the objective.

Now to refute his statements.

Christians believe that the Old testament (which is what you referenced) is true and is the inspired word of God.
BUT, Deuteronomy is a book of regulations for temple worship and civil laws in Israel, not moral laws that last forever.
We believe that Christ came to fulfill these laws perfectly so that we don't have to. Thus, the only laws we keep from the old testament are the 10 commandments, as the new testament tells us to obey these. Your attacks are futile anyway, since they cannot answer this question: Does Religion Brainwash Humanity?

That is the question you asked, and yet have not answered.

The obvious answer to this is no, religion does not. Most discoveries in history have been made by those of religious background. Religion promotes science and demonstrates how awesome our earth is.

Religion provides hope to those who have none.

Picture a child on the streets of Chicago. His father is in prison, his mother shot by her boyfriend. He enters gangs, starts doing drugs, gets into trouble with the law. He has no hope in life. And yet today, he is one of the happiest, most enthusiastic people that I know. He has hope because he knows his savior, and now he is back on track. Whether you want to believe it, the simple presence of religion in live gives hope.

Nearly all Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Buddhists demonstrate a desire for peace and for safety in the world. 90% of Muslims also demonstrate the above. You cannot point to ISIS and say "Look what religion does," when the vast majority of religion is peaceful.

You now have to prove that religion as a whole brainwashes society. Try to stay on topic this time.
Debate Round No. 3
SkepticalDefender

Pro

Now what I'm saying is that religion is pretty illogical. the reason I believe it is brainwashing, is because most people are indoctrinated at a very young and influential way, like I was once. I don't believe it's logical to restrict myself of freedom because of what a religion says. If I believe in God I can't masturabte, I can't be a homosexual, I can't be transgendered without going to hell. You want to strip off my freedoms because of this belief, my defintion makes it sound stupid, but it is exactly this

Christianity: The belief of a cosmic Jewish zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force in your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-women was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree, yeah makes perfect sense

When I said religion, Christianity is Normally the default setting. To address the 2,000+ religions out there, I could not address all.

The brainwashing part, people blindly follow the bible regardless of the contradictions stated so very often.
Jonnykelly

Con

You are correct about one thing: Your definition does make it sound stupid. It's a good thing your definition is not real.

It is true, one who is behaving in a homosexual manner, and those who spite God by attempting to create themselves in a new image are sinning. But God never says that one who calls himself one of the above WILL go to hell.

No matter how hard you try to be professional, you still demonstrate hate in your argument. What is worse, a Christian who attempts to convert others to his religion, or an atheist who spreads his hatred of the largest religion in the world?

The minority, or the atheists, show their hate of the majority regularly. The majority of people do not consider religion to be irrational, nor brain-washing. Billions of people peacefully engage in religion, and gains hope through it. I cannot call this illogical.
Debate Round No. 4
SkepticalDefender

Pro

Okay, you seem to be misunderstanding the entire topic here, I am not trying to "convert" anyone. I am simply trying to make you question just a little bit how your religion works. You should be more skeptical, Im not trying to convert you, i am simply trying to get you to question your religion a little bit.

Another misconception, you say I'm spreading hate and that I hate all chrsitians. No. You're pretty much another christian generalizing all atheists. We all hate Christians so much, no, in fact, nearly all of my family are Christians, do I hate them, no. I love them the same. Same thing with all chrstians. The thing I hate so much is the thoughts in Christians heads, atheists are all bullies. No, it's because of people forcing religion on us all the time, from Jesus billboards to protest signs like from westboro baptist church.

Not just that, but people are following all these restrictions like no masturbation or homosexuality, because God that probobly isn't there said you'll burn in a lake of fire if you don't obey him. God created everything right? All the beautiful things right, the birds, humanity, nature, and fish. But why must he include things such as rape, molestation, sexual abuse? Was murder not bad enough? Where was God when the holocaust happened? God abondaned his people. And don't say he works in mysterious was because what kind of Great God would sit and watch his own people die in an act of his, because hitler said "this was an act of God".

You say that stuff was created by satan, God created satan and evil, God created EVERYTHING. Evil, war, sexual abuse, murder, everything.

You say we bully you, yeah. You demoralize every atheist like they're the scum of the earth. Children become estranged from everyone in their family for being different.

You don't find it illogical at all, why, because a 3rd of the population says so. Because the majority says so, you know you're acting like sc cup, oh only 36% of Americans say global warming is a problem so it dosen't exist, I really didn't know we could all vote on the laws of physics. Just because a big group of people says so, doesn't make it fact. Mountains and mountains of evidence to support the Big Bang, evolution, God is basically already is disproven with tons of evidence. It's impossible that so much speculation is put into these things, but no, it's a magical, supernatural God.

I've gathered a number of links to websites that I want you to respond to.

http://www.patheos.com...

http://new.exchristian.net...

http://trevorburrus.newsvine.com...

But I bet you won't read these, and if you do, you'll be afraid satan is tempting you with facts and evidence, right? A demonic being is attempting to steal your soul from God. Huh, but I'm sure you'll still be chrsitian.
Jonnykelly

Con

You have demonstrated your hate in the first four rounds. I have not put the hate in your heart.

You say that Christians force religion onto you. Having advertisements is not forcing, it is attempts to persuade. There is nothing wrong with that. Never have I suggested that atheists are the scum of the earth, you have overgeneralized, and have assumed that I feel that way.

Your homosexuality point has been refuted, and I will speak no further on that topic.

God created us with at least some forms of free will. This is why there is evil in the world. God gave us choices, and so often we make the wrong decision. God did not create evil, but he gave us the choice to be good or evil at the beginning. All God's people who die have not lost, they have won, they sit with God in heaven. When a Christian dies, we celebrate.

You have proven in this debate that you are no stranger to bullying Christians.

"Religion, oh we all know what that is. That pesky book called the bible. The great figment of imagination. It's why rebublicans exist. It's why there are many ignorant people in this world."

If that isn't bullying someone based on religion, then I do not know what is.

My opponent's arguments have all proven to be fueled by bias, and his own hatred. He cannot possibly win the conduct category because of his pure concentrated hatred. He cannot possibly win this debate because of the lack of discipline.

You're right, I will not read those sources, because I do not need to in order to accomplish the purpose of the debate.

I provide my own sources that are relevant to the topic:
http://religionofpeace.com...
http://www.heritage.org...
http://exploreworldviews.com...

All of these prove that religion is in fact beneficial and rational for society. I remain convinced that even from a secular point of view, religion helps stability and gives hope to human beings.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by saphirescar 1 year ago
saphirescar
@a_janis1, I wasn't trying to disprove your point, just correcting your grammar. Transgender is an adjective, not a noun.
Posted by jethro_purazo 1 year ago
jethro_purazo
Yes. Sometimes, it's real. But... Believe in what you most believe in.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
However, even if there are some bad people in a religion, does that make the religion itself bad? No. That would be like saying because there are thousands of murderers in America, then the entire institution of America is bad. That is a fallacy. You can't blame the institution or religion for the acts of certain individuals. Rather, we actually have to judge what the religion itself teaches.

How can say religions that teach we should love our neighbors, respect our parents and respect others' property etc is a bad and vile thing? Isn't that something we should strive for?

And there are some key things ignored. Why aren't all the good deeds done by Catholicism and other religions included? How about Catholics setting up schools in 3rd world countries on behalf of their religion? IS that bad? How about all the charity hospitals founded by Catholic organizations under the name of God? IS that a bad thing? How about St. Judes hospital set up in the name of religion which helps advance research for children diseases? How about all the missionary work done throughout the centuries by various religions that is done under the name of religion? How can you say good religion is such a bad thing when religion inspires people to help other people?

We aren't trying to dominate your life because we aren't forcing you to believe anything. You can believe whatever you want, because that is your free will to choose. But it also is your free choice to choose God if you so desire. And when you help other people, you are, even if you don't know it, choosing to do God's good work.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
But religion does the same thing. So if you were to be fair, you also must hate law because it "holds back human rights" while upholding fundamental rights...just like Catholicism.

Catholicism is peaceful. Ok so a lot of people bring up that their is slavery and rape in the Bible. This is coming from the old testament which was written at a time when it was socially acceptable to believe in those actions. However, we judge people based on their time and location. We cannot hold the people who wrote the Old Testament Scriptures fully accountable for their actions since they were, in your terms, "brainwashed" by society in order to believe those things. However, they were still guilty, to a degree, and the action itself was still very much wrong. But then you ignore the rest of the Bible. You forgot what God did to help end societies immoral beliefs. What about when Jesus, the master of his disciples, washes the disciples feet? He performs the actions that would be done by a slave in order to show by example how humans should behave in equal worth. Jesus himself breaks societies standards of social class. What about Mary Magdalene and Mary, Jesus'Mother? They are of equal worth as the other men disciples in the Bible. The New Testament shows equality for women through these two women. Jesus, through his example, advocated for women's equality in this way.

The Crusades were a result of Muslim advances and murders of the innocent in the Holy Capital, if I remember my history correctly. So I believe then the war of the Crusades was justified. And like I said, I cant speak of the Muslim faith and what they are doing with things like 9/11. But those are Muslim extremists. The represent not what Muslim faith actually teaches, rather, what a few mad man want to change the religion into. I believe the Muslim faith itself is a very respectable one, but I have not done a great deal of research on it.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
Some religions do make people get upset over homosexuality. I cannot speak on behalf of any other religion but Catholicism, and Catholicism teaches we should love our neighbor as ourselves. We teach we should love everyone. We love homosexuals, but we condemn the act of homosexual sex as equally as we condemn the act of pre marital sex. But even if the act of homosexual sex is committed, we are taught to love them, but to hate the sin of improper behavior just like parent would love their teenage son even if they caught him drinking on the weekend. They hate the act but love the person. In fact, the Catholic church would be fine with two homosexuals living together as long as it does not lead to sex. So if anyone thinks the Catholic Church hates homosexuals, that would be a false accusation.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" Sound familiar? Its where all American inalienable rights are founded on paper: The Declaration of Independence. And guess why we have those rights. They are "endowed by their Creator" aka God. So how can you say all religion removes rights if we have rights due to religion?

Abortion is protecting the fundamental right to life of a human being. Therefore, when religion fights against abortion, it actually fights FOR the fundamental RIGHT to life of human beings.

If you say religion removes certain rights, you would be correct. But so does law. "My right to swing my fist ends where another man's nose begins" - Oliver Wendell Homles. The law restricts your human rights to do whatever you want, but then why aren't you also hating on the law? You aren't allowed to drive as fast as you want. Isn't the law removing your right to choose? Yes it is.
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
Atheists show lots of hate towards religion because of how much religion try's to dominate everyone's lives. Because of religion people get upset over homosexuality, transexuals, abortion, etc. religion holds back human rights because religious people try to force everyone to live under the rules of God when many people either don't believe in the same God or they believe in a different God.

Religion is not peaceful. I pointed out much evil in the bible in an earlier comment. There is rape, slavery, genocide, sexism, etc. in the bible.
Many wars are fought over religion, not just Christianity either. Remember the crusades? What about the war that's been going on for over 10 years because of the Islam extremists? 9/11?

Immoral acts were done under God(s).
What about how people would burn pagans at the stake? If you didn't believe in God you would be hanged. What about how people would offer human sacrifice to their God(s)?

If people didn't try to dominate everyone else's lives with their religion, atheists wouldn't have such a problem. But instead you have rights being held back and people constantly trying to brainwash atheists into ignoring facts and evidence and believing in a book that has passages proven wrong and that Christians even can't agree on if they should be taken literal or metaphorical, and has several immoral acts that are ignored.
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
@saphirescar
Ahhh you again. So what relevancy does the plural of the word "transgender" have towards my statement that the Catholic Church does not condemn homosexuals or whatever term you choose to use for the plural of transgender? My statement was not refuted
Posted by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
I normally side with the atheist, but this guys is being pretty harsh...

Yes the bible has many things that are indeed evil. There is lots of hypocrisy in it. There's genocide, slavery, rape, and so on.

God dislikes homosexuals.
Leviticus 18:22 - "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable"
Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."

Sexism towards women. I wonder how God deals with feminist!
1 Timothy 2:12 " "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she is to keep quiet."

God slaughters children.
2 Kings 22:23-25 - Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, "Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!" When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number. And he went from there to Mount Carmel, and from there he returned to Samaria.

God tells you to kill your family if they believe in a different God.
Deuteronomy 13:6-10 - "If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and worship other gods" (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery."
Posted by saphirescar 1 year ago
saphirescar
oh my goodness. @a_janis1, it's not called 'transgenders'. Nice grammar /s
Posted by a_janis1 1 year ago
a_janis1
If it's not christitany or Catholicism then what other religion has a book titled the Bible? Because the Bible was referenced in the opening statement of this debate, then that means direct reference was placed on Christianity and Catholicism
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Blazzered 1 year ago
Blazzered
SkepticalDefenderJonnykellyTied
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Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: Arguments and conduct go to pro
Vote Placed by BoggyB 1 year ago
BoggyB
SkepticalDefenderJonnykellyTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Pro was rude, off topic and used many as hominems. Con did much better than pro.
Vote Placed by jethro_purazo 1 year ago
jethro_purazo
SkepticalDefenderJonnykellyTied
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Reasons for voting decision: I had a hard time voting between the two of them.