The Instigator
jesusfreak1697
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheSkeptic
Con (against)
Winning
45 Points

Religion/christainity

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 7 votes the winner is...
TheSkeptic
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/30/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,508 times Debate No: 9370
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (15)
Votes (7)

 

jesusfreak1697

Pro

i know it was posted ages ago but i just read it and wish to talk more about it there was a debate posted about the best agruments against christainity and two that jumped out at me were there is no free will or god takes it away and that god allows too much evil in the world but please explain to ur athiest friends that there is evil in the world cause god allows free will. god did not create evil he created man and man created evil...... evil is simply the absence of love and kindess because these are characteristics of god evil is no more then the absence of god

so please give me a reason against christainity that isnt easy enough for a 5 year onl to counter
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for challenging me to this debate.

It should be evident from the resolution and a quick read of my opponent's round that we are arguing about the merits of Christianity. He starts by giving a quick rebuttal of the argument of evil, and then asks me to give a reason why Christianity is false. Since it isn't so clear as to whether I'm supposed to defend the argument from evil, or attack Christianity, I'll simply do both - I'll attack Christianity by defending the argument from evil. If I do so successfully, then this debate will be my win.

Therefore, I will present a simple case of the argument of evil and then refute my opponent's rebuttals:

====================
Argument from evil
====================

My case will be for the evidential argument from evil. Basically, I will argue that the incompatibility between the existence of evil and God's characteristics make it highly unlikely that God exists. Given that God is defined as the Christian god, who is purported to be omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

"...that there is evil in the world cause god allows free will."

---->This my opponent's main theodicy - the free will defense. I've heard it many times, and I'll give the same rebuttal that so many Christians seem to take for granted: why does God value free will more than the welfare of his people? This is now my opponent's burden; he has to explain free will is valued more than the welfare of his people.

Furthermore, I will also argue that there exists gratuitous evil or suffering in the world, in which improving moral character or being the cause of human free will is not present. For example, a child dying of starvation - for what purpose was that suffering existing in his life? Or perhaps an incurable disease in which medicine has yet to defeat, for what purpose does this kind of suffering exist?

"...evil is simply the absence of love and kindess because these are characteristics of god evil is no more then the absence of god"

---->Though it doesn't really matter what I say concerning this sentence, since I have addressed your free will defense already, I've always been perturbed as to why people believe evil is the lack of good. Haven't you ever heard of an amoral act? There is no "good' in eating an apple, so would it be evil then? The world is not a clear cut black and white, there are many shades of gray and neutrality between. So if you were to argue that evil is the absence of good, then you will have to back up this claim.

====================
Conclusion
====================

Well that's it. I have given my argument, and I await my opponent's rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 1
jesusfreak1697

Pro

dude b4 we go any further i want to point out that this is not an agrument i simply want to further understand aitheism im not gonna attack ur beliefs so plz dont attack mine, i am also a girl, lastly tone it done a bit my young mind does not understand ur very big words:(
i cant really post my "agrument" until u post one that i can understand
TheSkeptic

Con

Since there isn't much to refute here, I'll just dissect my opponent's entire round and respond bit by bit. So keep in mind that if PRO doesn't pick up the pace and give a good argument for Christianity, I will win this debate.

"dude b4 we go any further i want to point out that this is not an agrument..."

---->Then why did you challenge me to a debate?

"...i simply want to further understand aitheism..."

----> That's great and I support that, but if you want to do that on this website you shouldn't start a debate. You should just message/comment someone knowledgeable about atheism, post a forum topic, or even read other debates.

"...im not gonna attack ur beliefs so plz dont attack mine,..."

----> Political correctness is hogwash, what's so wrong about attacking other people's beliefs? Healthy skepticism is what helps fuels intellectual discourse after all.

"...i am also a girl,..."

----> Now now, the way you are putting that sounds like you are saying girls are somewhat intellectually inferior to men :P. Point is, it doesn't really matter if you're a girl.

"...lastly tone it done a bit my young mind does not understand ur very big words:("

----> Sorry, but big words serve the purpose of making my arguments more clear, concise, and precise. Besides, you're 15. That's only 1 year less than me.

"i cant really post my "agrument" until u post one that i can understand"

----> I shouldn't be held liable for your lack of understanding. I didn't employ anything that would need a degree or university level of training to understand. I'm not using symbolic logic, theoretical mathematics, complex physics equations, or economic lingo - my entire argument is easily understandable even to the layman. Maybe you should just read over it more carefully and Google anything you don't understand. If that still doesn't help, then just comment on this debate and I'll most likely clarify it for you. But take note, you just wasted a round.
Debate Round No. 2
jesusfreak1697

Pro

i know i just wasted it but idk how to do all that other stuff a debate just seemed like the fastest way to talk to someone i just dont like being called a guy it irritates me dont ask y

anyway i am christain because i like the things i hear in church or read in the bible i like having a purpose in life and believing that there is something beyond it something bttr then the currently horrid world we a r currently living in
if i was atheist wat would be my purpose? wat would i be living for? btw i dont like attacking ppls beliefs because ppl r supposed to see a difference in u when ur christian so i tend not to do normal stuff like i dont cuss i do my best not to well or cheat and it feels great! i luv not cussing or cheating cause it just gives me a great feeling and i know that comes from being christian.... anyway since u seem determined to agrue i will do my best god does care for the wellfare of his ppl those who r evil r not true christians so therefor they r not his ppl they r still his children but not his ppl, ppl of ur beliefs seem to get that wrong if they r evil or hav it in their heart they r not truly christains.....so god does protect and care for and provide for his ppl and he provides those how r not his ppl w/ several chances to become his ppl. anyway so yes their is evil in the world and yes god does allow it but he does so because of he eliminated all the evil from the world he would no longer be seen as a wonderful caring loving and forgiving God he would be seen as a murder and i do not believe he wants that. i am a christian because i luv the person who made me u r atheist because u do not believ in the person that created u

i dont care who wins i didnt really want to debate but i didnt know any other ways to talk to ppl now i do so i apoligize skeptic that u wasted ur time on wat u obviously wanted to be a good debate
TheSkeptic

Con

I thank my opponent for her fast response, and I apologize for calling her a "he". I use "him" as a general term for people who I assign no gender, usually because I don't care to find out which one they are. Again, I will simply respond to my opponent's pieces bit by bit, though I will save a special section for her remarks about the theodicy.

"anyway i am christain because i like the things i hear in church or read in the bible i like having a purpose in life and believing that there is something beyond it something bttr then the currently horrid world we a r currently living in..."

----> I know believing a God exists may sound enticing, but this has no bearing on whether or not he exists. I may want to believe I am the most powerful person in the world, but this doesn't mean I am.

"if i was atheist wat would be my purpose? wat would i be living for?"

----> Most atheists take an existentialist position - they believe they themselves make the essence (meaning) of his and her life. I would say this is quite liberating and befitting.

==================
Concerning the argument from evil
==================

There isn't much to gather, so I'll just quote some parts:

"...so god does protect and care for and provide for his ppl and he provides those how r not his ppl w/ several chances to become his ppl."

---->You bring up the interesting point of saying God is loving because he allows people to choose to follow him and become his people. However, you have failed to show why Hell exists then. Given the existence of hell, his love is more akin to coercion and blackmail.

"anyway so yes their is evil in the world and yes god does allow it but he does so because of he eliminated all the evil from the world he would no longer be seen as a wonderful caring loving and forgiving God he would be seen as a murder"

---->How in the world would eliminating evil from the world make you a murderer, or seem like one?

==================
Conclusion
==================

"...so i apoligize skeptic that u wasted ur time on wat u obviously wanted to be a good debate"

----> It's alright, you challenged me so I accepted anyway. However, I will stress that it should be very clear that your arguments fail to meet their mark.
Debate Round No. 3
15 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
once again skeptic a i had no business making a debate im not the best person to tell u bout christianity and my words were not clear i meant if god eliminated all the evil ppl in the world which would be the only way to extinguish it for any period of time that would take away alot of ppl so destorying that many ppl though it will happen isnt in his plan right now the evil will be destoryed according to christianity but God wants to give all his children evry oppertunitie possible to turn to him

i pray u will come to him one day bye skeptic
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
skeptic hell exist because satin (an x-angel) tried to overthrow god. u may say to this if god is so forgiving then y did he banish them, well the higher the position the more severe the punishment and that was a horrid crime. anyway that is y hell exist because satin tried to overthrow god and become the most powerful and christianity is based on faith we believe god exist we hav no other proof then the bible and the fact that historical records say that jesus lived and was crucified
Posted by Puck 7 years ago
Puck
"how did u know i was i girl and btw im srry i totally forgot bout the "debate" i started and i apoligize skeptic my first agrument sounded fairly rude that was not my purpose i do not wish to agrue om simply curious bout atheist"

Forums may be more suited to that, or contact people via PM. Should point out though that Atheism relates to a position regarding existence of a deities, and that's it. Questions outside of that arena won't be fully consistent across the spectrum of those that label themselves as Atheist. :)
Posted by Xer 7 years ago
Xer
"dude b4 we go any further i want to point out that this is not an agrument i simply want to further understand aitheism im not gonna attack ur beliefs so plz dont attack mine, i am also a girl, lastly tone it done a bit my young mind does not understand ur very big words:(
i cant really post my "agrument" until u post one that i can understand"

Hahahhahahahahhahahahaaaaaaaaaa
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
i will read ur comment tomorrow morning if i gotta go to bed
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
also i wasnt saying that being a girl had anything to do w/ me not understanding ur argument i just dont like being called a boy
Posted by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
Oh haha. And yeah, my typing got better partially because of debating :P
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
hogwash....(thats an intresting word) Dude u type fast!!
Posted by jesusfreak1697 7 years ago
jesusfreak1697
i posted random age dude i dont trust websites like this or anything
Posted by TheSkeptic 7 years ago
TheSkeptic
No problem, online debating makes people sound angry or rude even when they don't intent to be :). As I replied in my 2nd round, if you want to learn about atheism you should post on a forum - a lot of great members can help you.
7 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Vote Placed by DictatorIsaac 7 years ago
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