The Instigator
bdsbds95632
Pro (for)
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The Contender
LePult
Con (against)
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Religion is a problem for socety

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/2/2017 Category: Religion
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 816 times Debate No: 101631
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (7)
Votes (0)

 

bdsbds95632

Pro

I'll keep this short and concise. Everything from the denial of evolution to the acceptation of creationism and some people believing in a flat earth even though all of the evidence is stacked against them. This causes society, technology, and the human race to progress slower. If we were to completely do away with religion most things would progress faster. And for those who think that Darwinian evolution is just a theory, a theory is tested time and time again. Overall this shows that religion causes society to progress slower
LePult

Con

Although I consider myself an atheist I disagree with your point of view.

"Everything from the denial of evolution to the acceptation of creationism and some people believing in a flat earth even though all of the evidence is stacked against them"
The evolution wasn't denied by religion but by the close minded people. Something like that applies to the flat earth theory. People who support it ignore the arguments because they are bigots. They use religion as an argument, although it can be used as an argument for anything (round earth, flat earth, cubic earth (?)) if you interpret it right.

"If we were to completely do away with religion most things would progress faster"
I agree that progress gets and got delayed by this kind of people, but I don't think that without religion people would suddenly become intelligent. If there is no religion, these people will just use other arguments for their believes.

Religion isn't the problem, but (stupid) people are.
Debate Round No. 1
bdsbds95632

Pro

While I do agree that it won't instantly make people smarter, religion tends to make people ignorant. To support this I will quote a few bible verses that would show religious ignorance. Do not assume that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "A man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. This is from Luke 12:49-53. this would show Ignorance in the fact that religion itself says that Jesus was peaceful and came in peace. The bible also supports slavery
Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily...
Here God shows that he is in complete acceptance of a slave's position, and encourages slaves to work hard. This sentiment is repeated in Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:
overall these verses show that religion tends to cause ignorance.
LePult

Con

These verses you quoted support my view more than yours.

Ignorant or lazy people will read both quotes and think "Well, Jesus supported violence and god wants that slaves obey their masters.".
People who question this will try to find a deeper meaning. The "fire" Jesus wanted to bring to earth can be a metaphor for e.g. "the word of god" or "holy spirit". The "slaves" who should obey their masters could actually be bearer instead.

Intelligent people will try to interpret the Bible while ignorant people won't. Also you shouldn't summarize the meaning of a whole book by quoting one single verse.

I will provide an example from history to support, that people and not religion are the problem, even further
Absolutist monarchs told their peasants that it is divine law that they are monarchs. The peasants didn't question it because they were to ignorant/lacked the education.
The richer educated citizens questioned this divine law and other things, which led to the age of enlightenment.
Debate Round No. 2
bdsbds95632

Pro

the problem within religious ignorance is that people who are religious quite often aren't able or haven't read the bible. the priest is the one who reads it for them. this allows them to have a lot of power over them. and as a rebuttal to your point, it wasn't so much the rich that caused the age of enlightenment as it was the philosophers. the peasants then READ those books and started questioning their rulers and the religion. so as this shows, it would greatly speed up the development of new technology, art, philosophy and many other things. Religion quite often is the cause of the ignorance of mankind.
this is shown in that now, we have these amount of religion
Christianity (2.1 billion)
Islam (1.3 billion)
Nonreligious (Secular/Agnostic/Atheist) (1.1 billion)
Hinduism (900 million)
Chinese traditional religion (394 million)
Buddhism 376 million.
Primal-indigenous (300 million)
and back then more and more people were becoming humanist showing that religion tends to cause ignorance
LePult

Con

1.
Your first point was a big issue in history, but it just extends my example. The nobles and the clergy worked together. The clergy let the uneducated peasants believe that the king has the divine law. Today it is not really an issue, as the church doesn't have control over the people nor the state.

2.
To clarify the part with the enlightenment.
I was trying to express that the philosophers, scientists, artists etc. which caused the enlightenment were the children of the richer people eg merchants or lawyers and by that they were higher educated. I think we are trying to express the same thing.

3.
The delay in technology before the enlightenment happened because the rulers were to ignorant to consider other views. Also these numbers don't prove anything as you don't provide anything to compare them to, eg the amount of ignorant people.

4.
To adjust my point, for your last argument.
Religion doesn't cause ignorance, but the church did in the Middle Ages. Still, people are the problem.
Debate Round No. 3
7 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 7 records.
Posted by whiteflame 1 year ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: byaka2013// Mod action: Removed<

5 points to Con (Conduct, S&G, Arguments), 2 points to Pro (Sources). Reasons for voting decision: He is a good bdebate

[*Reason for removal*] Neither an RFD nor comprehensible.
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Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
In a society governt by religion and not humans...Humans are irrelevant..Truth is irrelevant..
Posted by missmedic 1 year ago
missmedic
Religious faith is both arrogant and ignorant. Because of it's certenty
Far from being arrogant the scientific method is one of humility. It acknowledges the limits of our current knowledge. It doesn"t provide explanations or answers from a position of ignorance, but investigates the unknown in an attempt to reach understanding based on empirical evidence. Surely it is the superstitious or religious approach which claims to know the answers without any evidence except "faith" that is the arrogant approach.
Posted by canis 1 year ago
canis
In a society governt by religion and not humans...Humans are irrelevant..Truth is irrelevant..
Posted by WhyAbhorReality 1 year ago
WhyAbhorReality
I am against organised religion myself, I do think it is a problem when people use religion in politics or promote their own theories on it for their own benefit. Overall it is bad for society, although I do think there are philosophical, traditional and psychological benefits to be found in religion that can't simply be replaced in society with something like 'mindfulness'. I think religions should accept science and using their scripture as proof of the supernatural is seen for what it is, the books are fables, folklore and lessons passed down over millennia. An atheist may be able to see the issues but often doesn't see the historical value in the holy books through all religions. Uniting them into one earth and life loving pro-equality combined religion would be my goal like at www.pantheism.net
Atheist bashing of religion isn't productive which can be proved by science.
I think someone belonging to an organised religious faith would be better suited arguing your point to be honest. But I stand by religion/spirituality is not something to do away with.
Posted by bdsbds95632 1 year ago
bdsbds95632
I believe that We would disagree enough for a debate as i consider myself very much an antitheist
Posted by WhyAbhorReality 1 year ago
WhyAbhorReality
I would argue that misrepresentation of religion is a problem for society, although that is not religion, that is people. Religion and science should not have any problems, they are far better together. People love to focus on problems rather than solutions though. I don't know whether our views would differ enough for a clear debate, what do you think? What say you!
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