The Instigator
daSnowman1183
Pro (for)
Losing
17 Points
The Contender
karththegeld
Con (against)
Winning
38 Points

Religion is insane

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/30/2009 Category: Religion
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,474 times Debate No: 7615
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (10)

 

daSnowman1183

Pro

Whereas religion has caused countless problems in the world and will continue to create problems indefinitely. The bible speaks of lies and there is absolutely no proof of any existence of a "god"
karththegeld

Con

Thank you daSnowman1183 for starting this debate.

I offer the following definition:

insane- utterly senseless (from dictionary.com)

My opponent argues that religion is insane because:

1) it creates problems
2) "the Bible speaks of lies"
3) there is no proof that God or Gods exist

I will now counter my opponent's arguments

1) By "problems," I assume my opponent means conflicts such as the Kashmir Conflict. Conflicts are caused due to many things. Religion causes conflict because of an antinomy or because of multiple antinomies. Other conflicts are caused by antinomies as well (i.e. The Russian Civil War- Reds believed that a communist rule was optimal, and the Whites believed that the rule of the Czar was optimal; they had a civil war because of it). As religion isn't the actual cause of the problem, but rather a disagreement of ideas, this argument does not prove that religious insanity.

2) The Bible refers to one religion: Christianity. Calling ALL religions insane because one speaks "lies" that are specific to that religion is illogical.

3) There is also no proof that God or Gods do NOT exist. If belief that God or Gods exist is insane because there is no evidence supporting the claim, then, in turn, belief that God or Gods do not exist is also insane because there is no evidence saying that God does not exist. If my opponent argues this, then his own atheistic belief is insane.

My argument:

Theists believe God exists to explain what they cannot explain otherwise (i.e. existence of life). As there is no evidence confirming that theist beliefs are false, religion is not utterly senseless (which is the definition of insane if you scroll/look up a little).

I patiently await my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 1
daSnowman1183

Pro

to clarify some I would like to just say that there are 3 definitions of insane... one that my opponent neglected to say was: of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged.

The reason why that new definition also posted from www.dictionary.com is important is that religion is all in the mind... Currently, we are debating how religion is insane or pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged.

Deranged would define as the following: to throw into disorder; disarrange.

Because of the definitions of deranged and insane I can now continue with my argument.

First, earlier I said that religion is all in the mind. The reason for this is that there is no physical evidence of an existence of a "god" or "gods". Since there is no physical evidence, religion must simply be part of the mind; and because it is part of the mind, religion is insane.

Now I will explain to you how religion throws the mind into disorder or disarrange: many people believe that they have seen a "god". This is simply an hallucination. Hallucination is defined as a sensory experience of something that does not exist outside the mind, caused by various physical and mental disorders, or by reaction to certain toxic substances, and usually manifested as visual or auditory images. Because their hallucination takes place only in the mind, it proves my argument that it was only an hallucination.

When my opponent brought up the Russian civil war, he spoke of government, not religion. Even though both of them are beliefs, government is the rules that people must follow in a country or state. Religion is the belief in a super natural being. So basically, religion is like your political party and since the whites vs. reds started a civil war over politics and BELIEFS, religion does the same throughout the world.

When my opponent attacked my atheistic values, he failed to mention that atheists believe in knowledge and science, not faith. So by saying that saying "god" does not exist is insane, you are clearly challenging what is known by science, something that can be studied physically.
karththegeld

Con

Thank you daSnowman1183 for the well thought out response.

I will now respond to my opponent's arguments.

I accept my opponent's definition of "insane," but would also like to point out that the definition of "insane" that I had provided in round 1 should be considered as well to best debate the topic.

My opponent argues that religion is insane because it is part of the mind. He explains this by saying that many people who have seen a God or Gods have actually seen a hallucination, an experience that does does not exist out of the mind.

Firstly, not all religions have a God or Gods. Buddhists believe in a "higher power," but not a God or Gods. Seeing as this topic is of religion as a concept rather than a specific religion, the argument that religion is characteristic to those that are mentally deranged because they have seen God or Gods does not work.

Furthermore, my opponent cannot say that people who have seen God or Gods are actually seeing hallucinations. A person may have actually seen God or Gods, but because society does not generally accept these "sightings," what the person may have actually seen would be considered a hallucination.

I would like to point out that every experience that takes place in the mind is NOT a hallucination as my opponent has said. Hallucinations take place in the mind, but that does not make memories, which are relived in the mind, hallucinations.

I do not quite understand what my opponent is trying to say in response to my Russian civil war example, but I shall refute to the best of my ability.
To clarify something, a government is not the "rules that people must follow in a country or state," but rather the institute that creates, enforces, and interprets the law.
That aside, my opponent says that religion causes more conflicts and is thus insane. I will use my friend as an example here. He argues whenever his ideas contradict those stated, which happens most of the time because his ideas are usually the opposite of the rest of society's. He creates more conflicts, but that doesn't make him insane. Religion, though it may create a few conflicts because of a contradiction of ideas, is not insane as a result.

Atheists put their faith in only knowledge and science; theists put their faith in God or Gods or a higher power and knowledge and science. And I am not challenging what is known by science. What we can study physically does not go to the extent to be able to touch on a God or Gods or a higher power, so science cannot say that a God or Gods or a higher power can exist.

My opponent has not responded to my 1 maybe 2 sentence argument, so I extend my argument.

I await evermore eager for my opponent's response.
Debate Round No. 2
daSnowman1183

Pro

yes the definition of insane is good for you... the one you choose... but the one i chose is better for me...

i respond to my opponents "one maybe two sentence argument" with the following:

from my definition of insane which is: of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged and since i proved that religion is all in the mind... religion IS insane.
karththegeld

Con

Thank you daSnowman1183 for your courteous response.

My opponent has not proven how religion is insane with the definition of insane I had given, which, with his given definition as well, would have allowed for a better debate on the topic.

As my opponent has not provided any reason for my rebuttals to be wrong or inadequate, I assume that he agrees with my ideas.

And his response to my short argument has a flaw in the logic. Just because religion exists in the mind, as my opponent has it, does not make the person whose mind it is in mentally deranged. I will provide an example to better explain what it is I am saying. Religion is an idea, and so is freedom. Freedom is not insane because it only exists in the mind, and that does not make the person, who believes he/she has freedom, mentally deranged. Similarly, religion is not insane.

Now to conclude this debate. My opponent has not proven why religion is insane by either definition, nor has he provided sufficient reason for my argument to be inadequate at proving why religion is NOT insane. I believe that about sums up this debate.

Thank you daSnowman1183 once again for such a delightful debate. And thank you readers for reading this far, and do not forget to vote CON.
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by wjmelements 8 years ago
wjmelements
CON pwnd. PRO forgot that there are other religions besides christianity.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
I hope this debate concludes and doesn't sink into forfeitville.
Posted by feverish 8 years ago
feverish
Interesting debate, karth argues well and should win judging from 1st round. Forgive me though for pointing out one error: "The Bible refers to one religion: Christianity."

The majority of the Christian Bible is in fact The Old Testament which is among the most holy books for many religions and belief systems from Judaism and Islam to Rastafarianism. Certain sects of Islam and other religions such as Buddhist-Christians also regard The New Testament as holy.

Hope noone thinks I'm being a troll, just trying to spread some knowledge.

Peace.
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Vote Placed by 1dustpelt 5 years ago
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Reasons for voting decision: Counter daSnowman1183 (How did you vote on your own debate?)
Vote Placed by daSnowman1183 8 years ago
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