The Instigator
imsmarterthanyou98
Pro (for)
Winning
7 Points
The Contender
Pitbull15
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Religion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanity

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after 1 vote the winner is...
imsmarterthanyou98
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/25/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 730 times Debate No: 53376
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

imsmarterthanyou98

Pro

Hello, I'd like to have a intresting debate on this topic , if you acept this challenge you must be in accordment with the rules below.

1.Burden of proof shared by Both parties

2.Use logic
3.Cite sources

4.First round acceptance.
5.Second opening arguments.
~Have fun
Pitbull15

Con

I accept. Good luck to my opponent in what should be an interesting debate.
Debate Round No. 1
imsmarterthanyou98

Pro

The case for why religion is positively harmful.

Secular society’s > high religiosity

While correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation correlation is evidence of a casual link being illustrated by correlation and here we see undeniable amounts of correlation.

USA being the most religious first world country[1] and has a massive rate of gun crime, murder, and imprisonment compared to less religious western nations.

Let’s examine the evidence.

The safest state to live in the USA is Vermont.[2]

It is also the least religious state.[3]

Mississippi being the most religious state[3] is also the 10th most violent state.[4]

As of 2010 Mississippi had the second-worst gun-murder rate in the nation.

Furthermore secular nations donate the most money and supportive aid, per capita, to poorer nations.

Percent of GDP given to poor these overall secular countries give the most aid to others.

  1. 1. Sweden – 1.45% 2. Norway – 1.06% 19. United States – 0.21%

83% non-religious 78% non-religious 13.9 % non-religious

The Global Peace Index Moreover Demonstrates That Least Religious Countries among Most Peaceful, Highly Religious Countries among the Least Peaceful[5]

Most peaceful and more secular least peaceful and most religious

New Zealand (1 in 2009) Iraq (1)

Iceland (4) Somalia (3)

Japan (7) Afghanistan (2)

Austria (5) Sudan (5)

Norway(3) Pakistan (8)

Ireland

Iraq the most religious country , Iraq is also the least peaceful.

The major religion in Iraq is Islam, followed by about 97% of Iraqis(12)

This society effectively demonstrates the dangers of religion.

Islam being a violent and misogynistic religion has put this society at great peril.

Oliner (1988) and Varese and Yaish (2000), in their studies of heroic altruism during the Holocaust, have found that the more secular people were, the more they rescued and helped persecuted Jews.

This is highly indicative that people do not need religion as a prerequisite to perform moral acts.

And indeed evidence shows that a lack of religious beliefs leads to higher altruistic acts of kindness.

Numerous studies, show that atheists, when compared to religious people, are actually less likely to be, racist, anti-Semitic, dogmatic, ethnocentric, and authoritarian.

Furthermore secularism also correlates to higher education levels.

63 studies in 2013 found that atheists are on average more intelligent than believers. [9]

Educated and intelligent citizens will undoubtedly be more successful and contribute more to a society.

Religious countries are the most corrupt(15)

Not only are religious countries the most corrupt but religion PROMOTES it.

“Considering the variety of corruption measures, the reliability of data, and the large number of included countries, we have to conclude that religiosity not only does not
impede corruption but tends to promote it
… Based on the above-mentioned arguments, we may conclude that while religiosity provides guidance on morality, some of its characteristics practically promote corrupt business behavior.”(15)

Humanity hatred ,wars, oppression, discrimination,violence,

Arguably the main source of hatred and of violence in this world is religion and organized religion.” – Chrsitopher Hitchens

Every religion at its core truly believes that it’s the one and only true religion. Christians believe that only they have the right true religion vice versa Muslims believe their religion is true. The result of such nonsense is that religions constantly come into conflict with other religions ending up with the slaughter and murder of countless delusional people.

Wars over who has the better imaginary friend have been going on since the dawn of civilization.

Here solely the wars that the Christian religion has caused.

Take merely the crusades as one example the religious wereguaranteed a spot in heaven if they perished while in combat by Pope Urban II in 1095 he said it was “the will of God!”.[11] What happened? Aside from losing the crusades even though with “The will of God” The total number of deaths due to the crusades is at least nine million, at least half of which were Christians. Many of these were simply innocent civilians caught in the carnage.[13]
In 1000s A.D this was over 3.9% of the world population solely in this war alone. Ponder for a moment all the potential that humanity was robbed of because of this event alone.

Throughout history, religious fanatics have waged holy wars and crusades, plundered, tortured and murdered 'heretics' and 'infidels' simply because they had different beliefs or no beliefs at all .

Even today it is still in many countries illegal to be an atheist. A direct cuase of religion.

Atheists Face Death Penalty In 13 Countries! This is today.The farther back the worse discrimination.[12]

This is merely one example of religious persecution and violence.

Here shown are some of the delusional indivuials who murdered others in the name of an imaginery being.

These are merely the indivuals who killed in the name of Jesus.

Suppression of scientific progress

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

- Karl Marx (1844)

Religion says it has a complete set of answers it often discourages exploration by suppressing curiosity, denying its followers a broader perspective, and prevents social, moral and scientific progress. Religion has and continues to oppress science and curiosity.

From the time of St. Augustine until the Renaissance, Christianity, deliberately arrested the development of science and scientific thinking, limiting investigation of the natural world to theological investigation.

As a result, scientific knowledge progressed hardly at all during the so-called Dark Ages, and the populace was mired in the deepest squalor and ignorance.

Until the 16th Century Christianity did it’s best to suppress science and discovery the cases of Nicolas Copernicus, Galileo Galilei and Giordano Bruno are few examples of it’s spite for science.

The Church also opposed the the printing press, concerned that the scriptures and other knowledge would become easily available to the masses, thus by-passing the traditional vetting and interpretation of the clergy.

The conflict between religion and science continues today as Christian fundamentalists demand that their creation myth be taught in place of, or alongside, the theory of evolution in the public schools.

Religion also desires to suppress free speech with the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books the Muslim fatwa against author Salman Rushdie for his 1989 book “The Satanic Verses”, and violent Muslim demonstrations against the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005 are only but a few examples.


Religious superstition causes untold suffering.

Martyrdom and sucide bombers happen for entirely religious reasons. 911 exemplified this.
Stress

Religions require there captives to go to church, obey holy edicts, and even to pray and worship up to 7 times a day . Failure to accomplish any of the above would make the believer feel as they have betrayed some celestial dictator and will suffer eternal tourment in hell.

These requisites cause perpetual stress. Followers, since childhood, are filled with vivid traumatizing stories of eternal burning and/or torture. They are made to be believe that if they don't adhere to these requisites they are to experience the horror in these aforementioned stories.

Most religions condem the LGBT community.

What about the countless people who are born gay ? What about the stresses and tourment they go through if there parents or themselves are devoutly religious? They are made to think of themselves as evil and worthless.

Misogeny &

Saudi Arabian women are required to wear the abaya, a black loose outfit that is reserved for Arab women so as to prevent men from viewing them as sex symbols.

In Iraq all women are forced to conform to the Islamic religon and thus half of the population lives in cloth bags.If the resist they are beaten ,murderd and raped.

In India Hindu law gives women limited rights to inheritance the oppression of females in India, is due to Hinduism as well as Islam, which are religions that confine, restrict and oppress women.


Religion is ultimately dependent on irrational belief in imaginery beings, inaudible voices, intangible entities, undetectable forces, and promises and judgements that wont happen in this reality.

It therefore has no reality check.

(1) http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com...

(2) http://www.dailyfinance.com...

(3) http://www.newsmax.com...

(4) http://xfinity.comcast.net...

(5) http://canterburyatheists.blogspot.com...

(6) http://en.wikipedia.org... : First woman to run for President in the USA.

(7) http://www.hartfordinstitute.org... : Brief history on women attaining status within various denominations of the Catholic Church and its offspring.

( 8 ) See religious texts; aka: Bible, Koran/Quran, etc.

(9) http://arstechnica.com...

(10) http://evolution.berkeley.edu... : Evolution and medicine connections.

(11) http://www.bbc.co.uk...

http://www.google.ca...= : Example of people who do not believe dinosaurs and other fossils are real.

(12) http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

(13) Robertson, History of Christianity: p168

(15)Hamid Yeganeh, & Daniel Sauers (2013). A Cross-National Investigation into the Effects of Religiosity on the Pervasiveness of Corruption Journal of East-West Business, 19(3), 155-180 DOI: 10.1080/10669868.2012.760027

Pitbull15

Con

I thank my opponent for his argument. I will now follow this with my opening argument, pertaining to the rules he’s set forth.

The Case for Religion’s Positive Impact.

Now, contrary to my opponent’s argument, I will provide direct evidence of the people using religion as a positive force in the world, rather than use correlations as most of my argument. It will be simple, as there will be no rebuttals in this round.

Premise 1: Religion in itself is neither harmful nor beneficial.

For this debate, I will argue that religion is largely a neutral force as far as societal impact and impact in general goes.
Let’s take a car, for example. A car can either be a great means of transportation, or a way to kill someone. Many people are responsible with automotive vehicles, while many others drive drunk or other irresponsible things and end up hurting or killing someone. But does that mean we should get rid of cars because they have been and are continuing to be abused? Do we give up a truly great form of transportation that’s helped shape our lives for the last century?

If your rational thinking skills are functioning, you would be strongly opposed to such a notion.

And that logic doesn’t only apply to cars, it applies to any major thing that has been used to negatively or positively impact us. Trains, guns, cars, airplanes, and of course, religion.

Premise 2: Religion has been used for good many times throughout history.

In essence, religion has been used many times as a force of good, and if we were to get rid of it, much of that good will have never happened and may never happen in the future. Take a look at all the homeless children that have been put into shelters and fed; that is one of the prime examples of that. (1)(2)

Or take a look at Mother Teresa. Granted, she definitely had her flaws, but if she had never lived and religion had never been, she may have not been motivated to do all the good she had done in her lifetime.(3)(4)

Or take for example all the starving children in foreign countries that Christian charities help to feed.(1)(2)

I could go on and on… but sadly, I don’t have enough character space.
So my point here is that if we never had religion, those people may have not been motivated to do the good they did, and the good they do, and the good they could do in the future.

Premise 3: Religion in itself in general is not evil nor teaches or preaches it.

Obviously, I will focus on the two biggest major religions for this premise: Christianity and Islam. But if my opponent wants me to go further into other religions then I will.

The definition of Christianity is

“Christian religion - a monotheistic system of beliefs and practices based on the Old Testament and the teachings of Jesus as embodied in the New Testament and emphasizing the role of Jesus as savior”

http://www.thefreedictionary.com...

Now, the harsh laws in Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy are not binding on us today. The beginnings of each of the books make it clear that those laws were only given to the children of Israel back then, and not to Christians; because that was long before Christ was born and the religion was founded. However, the books following them explain the prophecies of the coming Savior, and books that tell what indefinitely pleases God, rather than sets of laws that were given to a certain group of people.

Namely, His teachings are found in the New Testament. In the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, is there one time he preached hate to any group of people? Did he ever say “He shall be hated by everybody who worships me because I command it.” or anything like that? I don’t think anyone will find such verses in the Bible that tell of that behavior from Jesus. Mark 12:31 states that we should love our neighbors like ourselves. He means everybody when he says this; not just Christians.(5)

Islam


Here I will take a different route. Islam in itself seems to be hateful against all other nonbeliever of the faith. The Bible makes it clear that we are all children of God, but the Quran states otherwise, saying that Muslims are of a single brotherhood.(6) It also states that Allah does not love unbelievers.(7) And what’s more is that it establishes a hierarchy or relative worth.(8) From just this verse and others like it stems a whole superiority complex leading to terrorist acts. So I will agree with the opinion that Islam is not a great religion on the basis of its seemingly morally abhorrent teachings. However, we are talking about religion in general, and the largest major religions. And the largest religion in the world is currently Christianity, so that is where I believe the debate should focus on a little more.

I am not saying that Islam should be exempt, nor am I saying that all religions are neutral. I am saying that religion in general is not the problem. However, certain religions or people that choose to abuse religion in general or in particular are the problem.

Conclusion
Religion in general has been used repeatedly as a positive force in the world, and since it is not a sentient being with a mind of its own to cause things, it is not the problem; the problem is the people that choose to abuse it. I have provided evidence for my argument and I eagerly await my opponent’s responses.


Sources
(1) http://www.feedthechildren.org...
(2) http://www.wesh.com... http://www.examiner.com...
(3) http://www.notablebiographies.com...
(4) http://history1900s.about.com...
(5) http://www.biblegateway.com...
(6) http://www.usc.edu...
(7) http://www.usc.edu... http://www.usc.edu... http://www.usc.edu...
(8) http://www.usc.edu... http://www.usc.edu...
Debate Round No. 2
imsmarterthanyou98

Pro

Con’s “Argument” broken apart.

Premise 1
For this debate, I will argue that religion is largely a neutral force as far as societal impact and impact in general goes.

Con contradicts himself.

Here I will take a different route. Islam in itself seems to be hateful against all other nonbeliever of the faith.

Premise 1 is already negated only using Cons own words.

However moreover so , Religion in itself is perhaps the greatest sources of hatred in the world. As Con himself pointed out since religions are so inherently divisive and interdenominational , each religion claims that it’s the only true religion the only path to eternal bliss and so fourth this creates constant friction between different faiths.

For example ISLAM.

The Quran contains over 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.

With commands to chop off heads ,fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding those who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

This is again one of many many examples of religion causing direct suffering.

Quran (8:12) - "cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Not only does the Koran call out for the death and torture of non-believers it also rewards martyrdom. People blow themselves up convinced they are doing the will of god everyday.

A excellent example of this would be terrorist acts of 911 the hijackers committed these atrocities entirely in the name of religion , there actions were entirely religiously motivated.

The Koran states several times that the martyr can expect an afterlife in paradise: they are "alive" (3:169), and have a blessed afterlife:3:170-174,22:58.

Now let’s look at Christianity which promotes misogyny , homophobia , racism , hatred towards others and scientific ignorance. Indeed this cult of human sacrifice has and continues to cause untold suffering and terror.

Take a look at Mother Teresa , her preachments are responsible for an enormity of torment and suffering.

Mother Teresa let’s look at her.

1.Supported Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi's suspension of civil liberties in 1975[1]

2.After the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, more than 450,000 Hindu women in Bangladesh had been systematically raped.In these circumstances she asserted her rejection of abortion by publicly renouncing abortion as an option and by calling upon the women left behind to keep their unborn children.[1]

3.The image of Mother Teresa as "helper of the poor" was misleading, and at best few hundred people were served by even the largest of the homes. The (Protestant) Assembly of God charity serves 18,000 meals daily in Calcutta, many more than all the Mission of Charity homes together.[1]

4. Chatterjee exposed many operations of the order which engaged in no charitable activity at all but instead use their funds for missionary work.[1]

5. Former employees of Mother Teresa's exposed her fraud and alleged that Teresa refused to authorize the purchase of medical equipment.[1]

Christianity is homophobic.

Christianity condones the death of homosexuals as does it condone slavery.

The Bible condemns homosexuality several times. Leviticus 20:13 reads "If a man lie with mankind as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

This is precisely why homosexuality has been illegal in Christian lands, and the penalties have been severe. In the Middle Ages, strangled gay men were sometimes placed on the wood piles at the burning of witches (hence the term "faggot").

Indeed most religions condemns homosexuality.

Homosexuality is illegal in 82 countries.

In some you recive the death penalty as punishment.

Why would the creator of the universe condemn homosexuality when many are BORN gay and have no choice.?

Because Christianity just like all other religious is false. Is it good for the world to believe a lie? To believe nonsense? No.

Christianity is misogynistic

1: Timothy 2:12

And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.

So regarding Premise 1: Religion in itself is ABSOLUTELY HARMFUL.

Premise 2: RELIGION HAS AND CONTINUES TO BE THE CAUSE OF THE GREATEST ATROCITIES IN HISTORY.

As I clearly demonstrated in my opening case religion has been the sole cause for numerous wars and untold deaths. Please refer to my illustrations.

P3.

Religion in itself CAUSES evil and and hatred and so fourth , as I described previously.

Let’s read some of the bible as my opponent obviously never and is under the very grave misapprehension that Christianity is a peaceful religion .

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches

You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Jesus killing his enemies:

"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds. (From the NIV Bible, Revelation 2:22-23)"

Kill Fortunetellers

A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad

Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents

1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)

2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery

If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication

A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill False Prophets

If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

It's clear christianity is far from "peacefull".

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”

Steven Weinberg quote

Secular charities
KIVA
Planned Parenthood USA

lanned Parenthood International

Doctors Without Borders/Médecins Sans Frontières

Donors Choose

Richard Dawkins Foundation for Reason and Science

Foundation Beyond Belief

Kansas City Atheist Coalition

The American Red Cross

Direct Relief International

The American Humanist Association

Partners in Health
UNICEF

American Civil Liberties Union

British Humanist Association

Oxfam

These and countless other organizeations do good not becuse they wish to evade some eternal punishment or reward but becuse they truly care about the suffering of other human beings and do good becuse it's good.

These organizations also don't prosletize nonsense or hate or homophobia. And they do it WITHOUT RELIGION.

Conclusion.
Religion in general has been used repeatedly and currently as a negative force in the world , and since religion is ultimately teaches that believing in the invisible is more important than understanding the perceivable... that personal faith is more important than critical thinking... that that what imaginery beings supposedly say about the world is more real what's in the world itself ...such ideas are the root of much evil and religion is itself the problem. I have provided evidence for my arguments , and I eagerly await my opponents recontrsuction of his points.

Sources.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

Pitbull15

Con

I will go straight into a rebuttal of my opponent’s opening argument.

Rebuttals

It seems like the entire first half of my opponent’s argument is comprised of “Correlation equals causation.”

“The safest state to live in the USA is Vermont.[2] It is also the least religious state.[3]

Mississippi being the most religious state[3] is also the 10th most violent state.[4]

As of 2010 Mississippi had the second-worst gun-murder rate in the nation.”

This point is irrelevant. I could attribute anything else to the murder rate there. Why attribute religion? What would make religion more responsible for murder rates there?

“Furthermore secular nations donate the most money and supportive aid, per capita, to poorer
nations. “

Again, irrelevant. Does this somehow invalidate the good will that religious people
have?

“The Global Peace Index Moreover Demonstrates That Least Religious Countries among Most
Peaceful, Highly Religious Countries among the Least Peaceful[5]”

Again, why should religion be responsible for these problems? There are many other things
that could be causing their peace problems.

“Oliner (1988) and Varese and Yaish (2000), in their studies of heroic altruism during
the Holocaust, have found that the more secular people were, the more they
rescued and helped persecuted Jews.”

Once again, irrelevant. Religion is not the sole defining quality of a person. There are
plenty of good and bad religious people and atheists

“Numerous studies, show that atheists, when compared to religious people, are actually
less likely to be, racist, anti-Semitic, dogmatic, ethnocentric, and
authoritarian.”

Before I attack this one, I’d like to see sources.

“Furthermore secularism also correlates to higher education levels.

63 studies in 2013 found that atheists are on average more intelligent than believers. [9]”

Irrelevant once again. Again, religion is not the defining quality of a person, and it is not the final determiner of a person’s intelligence. There are many more plausible reasons for this, such as just better intelligence and scholastic aptitude. Why would religion be related to this?

Rebuttal to Christian Wars and Oppression

If we never had religion, would these events have never happened? Perhaps, but religion was
still not the sole cause of these problems; it was the religious followers that caused them. I will go back to my car analogy here. A car is a great use of transportation and can be useful when used properly, but millions of people die on a regular basis as a result of drunk driving. If we never had cars, would all those accidents have never happened? Yes, but if we never had cars, we would never be able to reap the benefits that their presence brought. It wasn’t the cars that caused the deaths, it was the people driving them. The same logic applies to religion. Religion can’t cause anything by itself, good or bad, because it is not a sentient being. Only the people that have power and can
control it are the problems and all the followers do the same.

Rebuttal to Suppression of Scientific Progress

This is related to my last rebuttal in that religion wasn’t the cause of this happening. And I find it interesting that my opponent calls it “The Christian Dark Ages”, as if Christianity single-handedly plunged the world into a dark age. And also, his diagrams state that if we never had religion, we could have been exploring the galaxy by now. On what grounds? What does he have to say
that we would have been exploring the galaxy without religion? What sources does he have to say religion was the only cause of this, and that it wasn’t due to other reasons? I await a response to this so I can properly rebut this.

Rebuttal to Stress

Once again, this is the fault of religious followers who are either misinformed or looking to exert power over weak people. Religion doesn’t require any of these things; the religious leaders do, however.

Rebuttal to Misogyny

I need to ask again, is it the laws of Islam that directly require these? Or is it the
religious leaders that do so?

Conclusion

My opponent’s arguments don't appear to hold water. Almost the whole thing is built on the assumption that “Correlation implies Causation”. Why should religion automatically be attributed to most of these problems? And why should secularism automatically be attributed to good? Why not the people themselves? There are many corrupt people that act without religion. Truly good people will do good, and truly evil people will do evil, regardless of religion's presence.

Debate Round No. 3
imsmarterthanyou98

Pro

We must first stand in awe at all the points that my opponent does not even dare mention or contest.

  • Not only are religious countries the most corrupt but religion PROMOTES it.

“Considering the variety of corruption measures, the reliability of data, and the large number of included countries, we have to conclude that religiosity not only does not
impede corruption but tends to promote it
… Based on the above-mentioned arguments, we may conclude that while religiosity provides guidance on morality, some of its characteristics practically promote corrupt business behavior.”(15)

  • Every religion at its core truly believes that it’s the one and only true religion. Christians believe that only they have the right true religion vice versa Muslims believe their religion is true. The result of such nonsense is that religions constantly come into conflict with other religions ending up with the slaughter and murder of countless delusional people.

  • Take merely the crusades as one example the religious wereguaranteed a spot in heaven if they perished while in combat by Pope Urban II in 1095 he said it was “the will of God!”.[11] What happened? Aside from losing the crusades even though with “The will of God” The total number of deaths due to the crusades is at least nine million, at least half of which were Christians. Many of these were simply innocent civilians caught in the carnage.[13]
  • In 1000s A.D this was over 3.9% of the world population solely in this war alone. Ponder for a moment all the potential that humanity was robbed of because of this event alone.

  • Even today it is still in many countries illegal to be an atheist. A direct cuase of religion.

Atheists Face Death Penalty In 13 Countries! This is today.The farther back the worse discrimination.[12]

  • Until the 16th Century Christianity did it’s best to suppress science and discovery the cases of Nicolas Copernicus, Galileo Galilei and Giordano Bruno are few examples of it’s spite for science.

  • The Church also opposed the the printing press, concerned that the scriptures and other knowledge would become easily available to the masses, thus by-passing the traditional vetting and interpretation of the clergy.

  • The conflict between religion and science continues today as Christian fundamentalists demand that their creation myth be taught in place of, or alongside, the theory of evolution in the public schools.
  • Religion also desires to suppress free speech with the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books the Muslim fatwa against author Salman Rushdie for his 1989 book “The Satanic Verses”, and violent Muslim demonstrations against the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005 are only but a few examples.
  • Martyrdom and sucide bombers happen for entirely religious reasons. 911 exemplified this.

  • Saudi Arabian women are required to wear the abaya, a black loose outfit that is reserved for Arab women so as to prevent men from viewing them as sex symbols.
  • The Quran contains over 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.
  • With commands to chop off heads ,fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding those who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

    This is again one of many many examples of religion causing direct suffering.


  • Christianity is homophobic.

  • Christianity is misogynistic

  • Christianity commands you to

  • Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests

  • Kill Witches

  • Kill Homosexuals

  • Kill Fortunetellers

  • Death for Hitting Dad

  • Death for Cursing Parents

  • Death for Adultery

  • Death for Fornication

  • Death to Followers of Other Religions

  • Kill Nonbelievers

  • Kill False Prophets

  • Religion also desires to suppress free speech with the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books the Muslim fatwa against author Salman Rushdie for his 1989 book “The Satanic Verses”, and violent Muslim demonstrations against the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005 are only but a few examples.

  • In India Hindu law gives women limited rights to inheritance the oppression of females in India.

    What about the countless people who are born gay ? What about the stresses and tourment they go through if there parents or themselves are devoutly religious? They are made to think of themselves as evil and worthless.

Now I will move on to Con's "rebuttals"...
My opponent fabricates a qoute which I never said. The actual qoute is listed below.

"While correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation correlation is evidence of a casual link being illustrated by correlation and here we see undeniable amounts of correlation."

That being said perhaps my opponent does not fully understand the ramifications of my statement.


My opponent then goes on to call the following points "irrelevant" , he provides no basis as to why we should consider the below correlations irrelevant.

“The Global Peace Index Moreover Demonstrates That Least Religious Countries among Most
Peaceful, Highly Religious Countries among the Least Peaceful[5]”

“Furthermore secular nations donate the most money and supportive aid, per capita, to poorer
nations. “

“Oliner (1988) and Varese and Yaish (2000), in their studies of heroic altruism during
the Holocaust, have found that the more secular people were, the more they
rescued and helped persecuted Jews.” My opponent then proceeds to leave out the following sentance , which he fails to address."
This is highly indicative that people do not need religion as a prerequisite to perform moral acts.

And indeed evidence shows that a lack of religious beliefs leads to higher altruistic acts of kindness."

Rebuttal to Christian Wars and Oppression
My opponent's outlandish response is that
"religion was not the sole cause of these problems"

Really? let's investigate that claim further.

Take merely the crusades as one example the religious wereguaranteed a spot in heaven if they perished while in combat by Pope Urban II in 1095 he said it was “the will of God!”.

My opponent claims that this was not becuse of religion...? According to Pope Urban II they where guaranteeed a spot in heaven if they perished in combat.
What could possibly be a greater motivator than that to kill and slaughter people. If the deluded followers of that cult had not truly belived such nonsense they would have never been a war. Furthermore the cause of the crusades was entirely religious it was a fight to secure the holy land.

Moreover that's merely one of many many religiously inspired wars. Also keep in mind.
"Religion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanity"


Rebuttal to Suppression of Scientific Progress





Christians burned the priest Giordano Bruno to death in 1600 for the charge of holding opinions contrary to the Catholic faith. Bruno praised Copernicus for establishing a scientific explanation for heliocentrism and published dialogues on the subject.

Furthermore in 1603, Bruno's works appeared on the List of Prohibited Books which aimed to protect the faith by preventing the reading of books or works containing scientific works by the astronomer Johannes Kepler, Francis Bacon, Rene Descartes, Blaise Pascal and others.

It took until 1966 before Pope Paul VI finally abolished the Prohibitorum.

During a Roman Catholic Inquisition, they imprisoned Galileo for his beliefs of a heliocentric solar system and forced him, under threat of torture, to recant.



Did religion cause the dark ages...? Let's review the facts.

314 Immediately after its full legalisation, the Christian Church attacks non-Christians. The Council of Ancyra denounces the worship of goddess Artemis.


324 In Didyma, Minor Asia, The emperor Constantine sacks the Oracle of the god Apollo and tortures the pagan priests to death. He also evicts all non-Christian peoples from Mount Athos and destroys all the local Hellenic temples.

325 Council of Nicea.

stantine sacks many pagan temples in Asia Minor and Palestine and orders the execution by crucifixion of “all magicians and soothsayers.” Martyrdom of the neoplatonist philosopher Sopatrus.

353 An edict of Constantius orders the death penalty for all kind of worship through sacrifice and “idols”.

Execution of pagan priests begins.

359 In Skythopolis, Syria, the Christians organise the first death camps for the torture and executions of the arrested non-Christians from all around the empire.

364 Emperor Jovian orders the burning of the Library of Antioch

380 The notorious Edict of Thessalonika.

On 27th February Christianity becomes the exclusive religion of the Roman Empire by an edict of the Emperor FlaviusTheodosius, requiring that:

"All the various nations which are subject to our clemency and moderation should continue in the profession of that religion which was delivered to the Romans by the divine Apostle Peter."

Non-Christians are called “loathsome, heretics, stupid and blind

396 On 7th December, a new edict by Arcadius orders that paganism be treated as high treason. Imprisonment of the few remaining pagan priests and hierophants.

448 Theodosius II orders all non-Christian books to be burned.

The role that religion played in the dark ages is undeniable if there was no religious friction between different religious faith , surely there woulden't have been all the violence and slaughter and loss of great works.


Rebuttal to Stress

Quite simply incorrect both the religon and religous leaders do as I outlined in my opening case.

Rebuttal to Misogyny

Con is simply incorrect here aswell islamic law requires this and religous leaders which are empowerd by the religion itself.



conclusion.
my Opponent's arguments don't hold water when ingestigated further , his entirely vacus assumptions are unsupported by evidence. Moreover he has yet to make one valid argument agianst the motion. "
Religion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanityReligion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanity" I've provided numerous examples of how religion cuases violence and injustice. Vote PRO.

Pitbull15

Con

Thanks to my opponent for his... passionate response. Now I will defend my opening argument.

I'd like to point out that I didn't negate my premises at all. I mentioned religion in general was largely a neutral force. That's not to say all of them are good. Let's use a variation of my car analogy. Cars are always a good form of transportation if used properly, but some cars are just not suited for use for various reasons, such as safety. Those are the exception, NOT the rule. The same thing goes for religion. My opponent has not even touched my first car analogy and I ask him to do so.

Mother Teresa

I already said she was flawed, but that wasn't the point of my argument at all. There are plenty others that do good in the name of religion, such as the charities I listed. My opponent has no right to ignore this and yet he continues to do so.

Christianity is homophobic

Not true. Those laws were only given to the children of Israel when Moses led them and not to Christians, as Christ hadn't even been born yet.

Sexism

If you read the entire chapter, you'll find that those were laws regarding leadership structure in the church, and not everywhere.

And my opponent continually cites Old Testament laws for his proof of religion's evil, and I've demonstrate how those old laws don't apply to us today.

Secular Charities

This point is not relevant. I know people can do good even if they are secular, but I'm trying to point out that religion in general is largely a neutral force that can be used for good or for evil, just like cars.

Now I'll rebut my opponent's last argument.

All he did was restate his argument and did nothing to refute my rebuttals. I stated and clarified already: Religion doesn't cause anything; people do. Or in this case, religious followers. How can my opponent say while making generalizations that religion causes things if it is not a sentient being? Religion itself has no causal ability. To attribute correlation to causation like my opponent has is a demonstration of the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy.

"my Opponent's arguments don't hold water when ingestigated further , his entirely vacus assumptions are unsupported by evidence. Moreover he has yet to make one valid argument agianst the motion. "Religion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanityReligion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanity" I've provided numerous examples of how religion cuases violence and injustice. Vote PRO."

This is extremely rude of my opponent. I clarified twice already using the car analogy how religion itself doesn't cause things good or bad; people do. I provided evidence for that while refuting Con's arguments along the way. He has done nothing to attack the analogy; therefore, my point of religion not causing these things by itself stands.
Debate Round No. 4
imsmarterthanyou98

Pro

Rebuttals and closing arguments.

I almost don't feel the need to respond at all because of failed semantics and failure of con to support the resolution religion is overall not beneficial to the well being of society and humanity. However I will , address some of the issues he has brought up , furthermore I have no doubt that voters will surely take notice of all the points CON has failed to even mention.

Voters will clearly notice that I’ve sufficiently addressed “religion is neutral” in the above rounds by demonstrating that religious teachings and beliefs have led to countless atrocities. A great quote below will restate what I’ve said.

Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.” ~ Steven Weinberg,

Christianity is homophobic , sexist ,misogynistic , ect ect .

My opponent has demonstrated another crucial issue with religious scripture. It can be interpreted in many ways , for example what if somone where to interpret the mentioned quotes literally? Such as people who follow “sola Scriptura”?

Because if someone did they might stone homosexuals… OH WAIT THAT’S ALREADY HAPPENING

Just like another point that con never even mentioned.

Homosexuality is illegal in 82 countries.

In most you receive the death penalty as punishment.

We must AGAIN stand in awe at all the points that my opponent does not even dare mention or contest.

  • Not only are religious countries the most corrupt but religion PROMOTES it.

“Considering the variety of corruption measures, the reliability of data, and the large number of included countries, we have to conclude that religiosity not only does not
impede corruption but tends to promote it
… Based on the above-mentioned arguments, we may conclude that while religiosity provides guidance on morality, some of its characteristics practically promote corrupt business behavior.”(15)

  • Every religion at its core truly believes that it’s the one and only true religion. Christians believe that only they have the right true religion vice versa Muslims believe their religion is true. The result of such nonsense is that religions constantly come into conflict with other religions ending up with the slaughter and murder of countless delusional people.
  • Take merely the crusades as one example the religious wereguaranteed a spot in heaven if they perished while in combat by Pope Urban II in 1095 he said it was “the will of God!”.[11] What happened? Aside from losing the crusades even though with “The will of God” The total number of deaths due to the crusades is at least nine million, at least half of which were Christians. Many of these were simply innocent civilians caught in the carnage.[13]
  • In 1000s A.D this was over 3.9% of the world population solely in this war alone. Ponder for a moment all the potential that humanity was robbed of because of this event alone.
  • Even today it is still in many countries illegal to be an atheist. A direct cuase of religion.

Atheists Face Death Penalty In 13 Countries! This is today.The farther back the worse discrimination.[12]

  • Until the 16th Century Christianity did it’s best to suppress science and discovery the cases of Nicolas Copernicus, Galileo Galilei and Giordano Bruno are few examples of it’s spite for science.
  • The Church also opposed the the printing press, concerned that the scriptures and other knowledge would become easily available to the masses, thus by-passing the traditional vetting and interpretation of the clergy.
  • The conflict between religion and science continues today as Christian fundamentalists demand that their creation myth be taught in place of, or alongside, the theory of evolution in the public schools.
  • Religion also desires to suppress free speech with the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books the Muslim fatwa against author Salman Rushdie for his 1989 book “The Satanic Verses”, and violent Muslim demonstrations against the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005 are only but a few examples.
  • Martyrdom and sucide bombers happen for entirely religious reasons. 911 exemplified this.
  • Saudi Arabian women are required to wear the abaya, a black loose outfit that is reserved for Arab women so as to prevent men from viewing them as sex symbols.
  • The Quran contains over 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule.
  • With commands to chop off heads ,fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding those who do not join the fight are called 'hypocrites' and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

This is again one of many many examples of religion causing direct suffering.

  • Christianity is homophobic.
  • Christianity is misogynistic
  • Christianity commands you to
  • Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
  • Kill Witches
  • Kill Homosexuals
  • Kill Fortunetellers
  • Death for Hitting Dad
  • Death for Cursing Parents
  • Death for Adultery
  • Death for Fornication
  • Death to Followers of Other Religions
  • Kill Nonbelievers
  • Kill False Prophets
  • Religion also desires to suppress free speech with the Catholic Church’s Index of Prohibited Books the Muslim fatwa against author Salman Rushdie for his 1989 book “The Satanic Verses”, and violent Muslim demonstrations against the Danish cartoons depicting Mohammed in 2005 are only but a few examples.
  • In India Hindu law gives women limited rights to inheritance the oppression of females in India.

What about the countless people who are born gay ? What about the stresses and tourment they go through if there parents or themselves are devoutly religious? They are made to think of themselves as evil and worthless.

Con’s car analogy , where this analogy to be true it would be absolutely positively IRRELEVANT. The debate is if religion is beneficial for example nuclear bombs being used to decimate civilians it could be argued is not beneficial yet they are a tool…organized religion is a tool that has been used for ignorance and violence therefore not benefical…

However Cons phantasmagorical analogy is absolutely fallacious. Cars for example do not direct people to stone others for their gender or religious preference for example. Neither do they claim to have the creator of the universe on their side

All con did was restate his arguments and did nothing to refute my rebuttals.I stated and clarified already: religion causes it’s followers to perform unimaginable atrocities and only because they have faith that it’s divinely warranted do they commit such acts.

My opponent has failed to provide logical arguments sustained with evidence and has yet to reply to all of my points. This is extremely rude of my opponent. I clarified already the rules and regulations in round one. I provided evidence for my arguments while refuting pros points along the way. He has done nothing to attack my points therefore I win.

Pitbull15

Con

Pitbull15 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by Pitbull15 2 years ago
Pitbull15
I thought I was just supposed to rebut your opening argument for that round. Clearly, I'll go ahead to try to refute your rebuttals in my next argument.
Posted by Pitbull15 2 years ago
Pitbull15
Do I go ahead and post my rebuttal?
Posted by Romanii 2 years ago
Romanii
Aw damn, I would have accepted this if I got here a few minutes earlier...
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by TF2PRO 2 years ago
TF2PRO
imsmarterthanyou98Pitbull15Tied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: FF