The Instigator
Akhenaton
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Dragonfang
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Religions: Corruptions of God?

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 4/11/2013 Category: Religion
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 682 times Debate No: 32372
Debate Rounds (3)
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Akhenaton

Pro

God may exist, or not. If yes, then homo-sapiens has no chance of ever tuning in that frequency. We either are God, or we are not, and if no, then we are forever blind to what God is. Hence, Any expression from homo-sapiens regarding "God" is about as valid as anything they might say about life on another planet in another galaxy. It is a corruption by definition. It is a slant, a subjective opinion. The term expression above means anything ever wrote or spoke or artistically represented concerning "God" by a homo-sapiens.
Dragonfang

Con

Although your description is vague (And grammar needs some work), I can see a basic and incomplete argument I hope your would clarify in the next round.

What is your definition of God?

Do you consider yourself agnostic? (God may exist but we don't know)

Do you believe humans may only arise through evolution?

Do you believe that morality and logic arise from "chemicals in the brain", thus everything is matter, or do you believe that it is spiritual and that humans are unique from animals?
Debate Round No. 1
Akhenaton

Pro

God may exist, or not. If yes, then homo-sapiens has no chance of ever tuning in that frequency. We either are God, or we are not, and if no, then we are forever blind to what God is. Hence, Any expression from homo-sapiens regarding "God" is about as valid as anything they might say about life on another planet in another galaxy. It is a corruption by definition. It is a slant, a subjective opinion. The term expression above means anything ever wrote or spoke or artistically represented concerning "God" by a homo-sapiens.
Dragonfang

Con

And the award of the WTF moment of today goes to...


If that is the case, then I shall use the ancient and classic principle of convincing the crowd rather than the debater. For my opponent failed to supply an understandable logical argument and did not take debating seriously.
And for that, I have limited refutation resources, but as my opponent is making the claims, it is necessary for me to make the refutations. So, I shall create points that I believe that it represents the fundamentals of Pro's logic.

I will start with the topic title.

1- Is God evil? Does he not care?
2- Even if God exists, so what? That doesn't mean there is religion.
3- There is no way to know/understand god or affirm he exists, it is speculation.


I failed to understand his logic of evolution, new age stuff about us being god, and his hate for the Vatican.
If more than two doctrines combine together, then I know something is wrong...




1- God is evil! (No pun intended!)

God is perfection, thus we are talking about absolute good or absolute evil. We can't just call anything absolute evil, because that means nullifying all good intentions, effects, results which is non-existent, evil isn't simply the opposite of good, it means the lack of good, just like light & dark and hot & cold, knowledge & ignorance etc...
There is no such thing as absolute evil in nature, because nature is based on balance, at some point, scientists thought that all bacteria is harmful, but even disease bacteria can be beneficial in say plant growth control. But atheism is about denying blessings, we have more than enough resources, but there is always greed.

An other example would be when Mao Tse Tung decided to start a genocide (how typical!) on sparrows during the four pest campaign, it turned out sparrows also ate insects who significantly worsened harvests which contributed to the great famine that caused at least 20 millions to die from starvation.


The problem of evil is not that complicated, we just have to look with the right angle:


"[They are] those who have been evicted from their homes without right - only because they say, "Our Lord is Allah." And were it not that Allah checks the people, some by means of others, there would have been demolished monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques in which the name of Allah is much mentioned. And Allah will surely support those who support Him. Indeed, Allah is Powerful and Exalted in Might." (Quran 22:40)


The world is beautifully strange. What makes your physically stronger weakens your heart, and what makes your physically weaker strengthen your heart.

So a person who went through hardship have will power much greater than a spoiled person. So, There is no true evil in the world itself, as it manages to bring balance somehow.

But why did God not give us constancy without hardship? Well, imagine that you feel no hunger, no cold, no fire, no fear etc... what does life mean? How do you know you are alive? These brings us motivation, brings us purpose. Without the pain of ignorance, we wouldn't have seeked knowledge.
This also proves that life is a test to discover God. Hardship FORCES us to seek God. We forget him when we are in blessing, but we seek him in hardship, and seeking the infinite proves that God is there.





2- *Insert Yao Ming face meme + Why so serious meme*

So after the guy decided to believe in God, he also decided to reject all religions. Meaning that the creator cred this world and founded it's laws, then he decided to leave it. No judgement day, no punishment, no religion.

Lets attribute the god of agnostics:

1- A failed artist

From a non-religious point of view, he is a failed artist because he created this beautiful, balanced world, and then he left it and quarreled it. Even after he created humans without a low to govern us or a religion to guide us, or without a value of our existence.

How can a servant be given food without judging him?

2-Silent & anonymous

It is a scary description, when he gives you no law or message you can use to know that: you are loved, that he is close to you, and that he encourages you to do good. Then suicide would be better, because you would be worthless and have no value to the agnostic god.

3-Careless

The agnostic god does not care about his creat or their action, an arrogant and greedy person is equal to someone who prays to him and acknowledges him. An unjust tyrant and violator is equal to an oppressed victim. A criminal is equal to a person who thinks highly of morals.

If that is the case, then forget about morals, take life to the extreme! steal! because now we know there is no afterlife. *Note: Sarcasm, don't do that*

Lets take this example, if a student says: "If the teacher was a good man like they claim, he wouldn't have put these difficult questions." But would this argument hold any weight once he receives his mark?

An agnostic believes in moral and values, which means they believe in choices, particularly good & evil ones. And by believing in choice, that should take down agnosticism and atheism. We have free choice, but we are drawn into choose good and leaving evil. That is a proof of the existence of higher values that contradicts nature rather than chaos and carelessness. This is a proof that humans are here for a purpose.

3- I - D O N ' T - K N O W!!!!!!

This was partially answered above, so I won't go too deep.

When we say that the truth is that there is no truth, then that is only virtual and would cause a paradox. Because if this statement was correct, then it is not real.

We can conclude that this attitude cannot be a permanent life code, it could last for a period of time multiple times. But saying that someone would be born and would die under "I don't know", then that is contradictory and wouldn't last due to the nature of humans. If skepticism and misunderstanding and rejection was a comfortable state, there would be no advancement in human life. Our nature requires us to seek facts and follow it.




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That should answer the basic questions.

And PLEASE, someone find me a translator!
Debate Round No. 2
Akhenaton

Pro

My opponent appears unable to debate this lofty topic. He does not address my claim, but instead blows a lot of smoke. Ignorance is bliss, but it won't help you win a debate. I stated facts in my opening round and he has not even attempted to refute those facts. Are the religions of man corruptions of God? Or are they not? Please find me an opponent who is able to debate this question.
Dragonfang

Con

I have already expressed a request to clarify the subject. However my opponent hysterically decided to copy paste his argument which makes little sense.

I also do not agree with the term, "Ignorance is bliss". It is true that Humans are against change of concept psychologically, being able to accept new ideas after a long period of time have past is indeed difficult, however that does not mean ignorance is a good thing as people have exploited this factor in the past for their own selfish goals.

Furthermore, my opponent claims to be possessing the full truth, this is a delusional concept that have doomed people from learning in the past. This can be evident by his claim that I never even attempted to refute these facts when I have clearly targeted the reasons someone would make a claim.

We conclude that my opponent failed miserably in the debate game and showed limited respect to his fellow debater although the respect must be abundant in order to create a constructive debate.
Debate Round No. 3
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