The Instigator
Adam2isback
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
maximos26
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Rematch: so-called racist skinheads are really dumb and know nothing of the true Nazis

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 11/8/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 600 times Debate No: 64803
Debate Rounds (3)
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Adam2isback

Pro


I will be arguing that skinheads that are proclaimed to be racists are really just Klan member's sons who are Nazi wannabes and wanna mix their daddy's beliefs with their's. First of all, the KKK was the one who believed in Nordic supremacy. And they Zionists too, which was the opposite of Adolf Hitler, inherently. Hitler was allied with Italy and Japan, which automatically makes him not a Nordic supremacist. His allies were not Denmark or Britain. Denmark actually later fought Hitler.
I fell sleep so maybe a rematch would be good. Sorry.
maximos26

Con

Lets get started

First of all you stated that Hitler is not a Nordic supermacist because he allied himself with Japan and Italy.Hitler allied himself with all the fascists regimes in central europe as well (Romania,Hungary,Bulgaria). That was because he chose to ally himself with all the countries that were under the same system as his: The totalitarian system.Germany was the only nazist state in the world and because the war was coming it needed allies.Thats why Hitler allied himself with all the fascists countries.Fascism is a totalitarian system as well and prodessecor to nazism lacking only the racial discrimination.Thats why I believe the AXIS to be an alliance between totalitarian states against democratic ones.

Secondly you stated that Hitler did not ally himself with Great Bitain nor Denmark which according to you would be natural allies if he indeed had supermacist beliefs.I like to see the two countries as two different situations.British people are of saxon blood which does not belong to the nordic (aryan) race.Morover dont forget that Germany and Great Britain got to war because of the gurantee of Poland.Hitler hoped that he could annex Poland without starting the war because the English people were so afraid of another Great war.That means that the war was more of a diplomatic red line that Hitler crossed forcing England to take a stand or loose its great power status.As of Dannish people,they were under a pretty autonomous occupation.The king was allowed to remain as did the government.The Nazis took completely over as late as 1943 (the occupation happened in 1940) and only aft
Debate Round No. 1
Adam2isback

Pro

Lets get started

First of all you stated that Hitler is not a Nordic supermacist because he allied himself with Japan and Italy.Hitler allied himself with all the fascists regimes in central europe as well (Romania,Hungary,Bulgaria). That was because he chose to ally himself with all the countries that were under the same system as his: The totalitarian system.Germany was the only nazist state in the world and because the war was coming it needed allies.Thats why Hitler allied himself with all the fascists countries.Fascism is a totalitarian system as well and prodessecor to nazism lacking only the racial discrimination.Thats why I believe the AXIS to be an alliance between totalitarian states against democratic ones.
The Nazis were not Nordicist at all. That honor goes to the Ku Klux Klan.
Germans were not the only high-ranking members of the Nazi party. Many high ranking Nazis were not German either in ethnicity (regardless of whether they were German in nationality or not). Here's a rundown:
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(a high ranking scientist for Hitler) -- obviously a Pole. He was in charge of one of the camps (either death or concentration).
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(high ranking propagandist) -- but only half Polish though (still makes a difference)
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(half Polish)
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(Polish)
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(this one is kind of a mystery, but given his last name, he had to be French)
http://en.wikipedia.org...;(Nazi physician) -- Pole
The second to last one, along with others here, were taken from http://en.wikipedia.org...

Secondly you stated that Hitler did not ally himself with Great Bitain nor Denmark which according to you would be natural allies if he indeed had supermacist beliefs.I like to see the two countries as two different situations.British people are of saxon blood which does not belong to the nordic (aryan) race.
First of all Saxon blood is indeed Germanic, Nordic. The Saxons were from the Germanic tribes that once inhabited the area now known as Germany and Denmark.
Aryanism, as the Nazis used it, was really referring to an ancient Indian race. The Symbol of his party had to do with ancient Indian symbols, which Hitler admired.

Morover dont forget that Germany and Great Britain got to war because of the gurantee of Poland.Hitler hoped that he could annex Poland without starting the war because the English people were so afraid of another Great war.That means that the war was more of a diplomatic red line that Hitler crossed forcing England to take a stand or loose its great power status.As of Dannish people,they were under a pretty autonomous occupation.The king was allowed to remain as did the government.The Nazis took completely over as late as 1943 (the occupation happened in 1940) and only aft
You forgot to finish that (but don't hold it against him in the voting, it was a mistake). Anyways, I think you mean Scotland. They were the ones who pushed for British entrance into the war. The majority of leaders in WWII on the British side were Scottish.
As for Denmark, they fought against Germany but quickly surrendered. What the Germans had in mind for Denmark was brutal and hardcore.
http://www.localhistories.org...

maximos26

Con

Nice arguments ! And sorry for the half finished sentence my pc played tricks on me
If Hitler was not realy a supermacist that would mean that his book mein Kampf which spoke of the needed Lebensraum(Living space) was not writen by him. It was the planed policy of the Nazis to -after winning the war- kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic people.

Secondly the fact remains that the nazists had no reason to get the jews to the concetration camps other than ideological ones,nor had they any reason to undermine the russian conquest by angering the populace that initialy was welcoming the invaders as liberators from the stalin police state.It is an accepted fact that had the nazis not ill-treated the russian people the partisans would have never been formed and the nazis would have a better chance of success as there would be no partisan ruled chokes of land inside the conquered territory and as a result the supply lines would be intact.

Finaly I dont see any reason for Hitler to attack the USSR anyway under any circumstances.Stalin had an extremely bad leaded (because of his police state killing many good officers because of indications of not being completely loyal to the state and the fact that stalin chose his generals with the criteria of loyalty not skill)and ill-equiped (not all russian soldiers had rifles, some fought with rocks and sticks months after the declaration of war)army and did not want to fight the germans.Thats why he chose to sign the Molotov"Ribbentrop Pact (non aggresion pact and a deal of which countries belonged to whose sphare of influence).No army could ever reach to the uralian mountains in the middle of the winter.Hitler underestimated his enemy thinking it would be an easy win.The racial hate and belief of supermancy lead to his downfall.

The KKK are the spiritual successors of the nazist party and even if they dont follow the Nazi dogma to the letter their beliefs are heavily ispired by them.
Debate Round No. 2
Adam2isback

Pro

Nice arguments ! And sorry for the half finished sentence my pc played tricks on me
Thank you. Apology is accepted.


If Hitler was not realy a supermacist that would mean that his book mein Kampf which spoke of the needed Lebensraum(Livinghttp://www.debate.org...# space) was not writen by him. It was the planed policy of the Nazis to -after winning the war- kill, deport, or enslave the Polish, Ukrainian, Russian, and other Slavic populations, whom they considered inferior, and to repopulate the land with Germanic people.
He probably meant Germans, not Germanic. But here's the thing, and I've noticed people are confused: what is your idea of Germanic? Do you mean Germans, or do you mean the Nordic people, which Germanic tends to be associated with. Hitler didn't like Denmark, I'm sure of that. I mean he wanted to inflict revenge on them for things in the past, like the Holstein-Schswelig Wars. I'm sorry I'm kind of confused here.


Secondly the fact remains that the nazists had no reason to get the jews to the concetration camps other than ideological ones,nor had they any reason to undermine the russian conquest by angering the populace that initialy was welcoming the invaders as liberators from the stalin police state.It is an accepted fact that had the nazis not ill-treated the russian people the partisans would have never been formed and the nazis would have a better chance of success as there would be no partisan ruled chokes of land inside the conquered territory and as a result the supply lines would be intact.
Absolutely not. He had no reason to hide his hatred towards Russia. Germany, as well as Italy, France, Spain all hated the Jews. I must also add for the sake of argument that they hated Protestants as well. In some ways the Holocaust was also a killing of Protestants, a continuing of Catholic anger towards them.
http://scienceblogs.com...


Finaly I dont see any reason for Hitler to attack the USSR anyway under any circumstances.Stalin had an extremely bad leaded (because of his police state killing many good officers because of indications of not being completely loyal to the state and the fact that stalin chose his generals with the criteria of loyalty not skill)and ill-equiped (not all russian soldiers had rifles, some fought with rocks and sticks months after the declaration of war)army and did not want to fight the germans.Thats why he chose to sign the Molotov"Ribbentrop Pact (non aggresion pact and a deal of which countries belonged to whose sphare of influence).No army could ever reach to the uralian mountains in the middle of the winter.Hitler underestimated his enemy thinking it would be an easy win.The racial hate and belief of supermancy lead to his downfall.
Here's the thing: Germany and Russia had been natural enemies for the longest, and WWI was a good example of this. Denmark and Germany were enemies because of the Schswelig War, and Britain and Germany for obvious reasons. They had a reason to attack Russia: it was revenge basically. And, yes, he had, racial hatred: towards Nordic folks (the Jew part was much like the Lutheran part, a religious aspect).

The KKK are the spiritual successors of the nazist party and even if they dont follow the Nazi dogma to the letter their beliefs are heavily ispired by them.
First of all, the two are not related whatsoever. And even if the two were related, it would be the other way around, that the Nazis were inspired by the KKK's beliefs. First of all, the Nazis were Catholics (the head man: http://www.nndb.com...). The KKK was Judeo-Protestant. They were Zionist, and the only Christians they accepted were Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Presbyterians. The KKK was the one who invented Nordicism. They were the ones who didn't want, for instance, Italian, Irish, German, English, Irish, Greek, Arab, Chinese, Japanese, Korean immigrants in America. But that simply isn't true. As I've shown there were several high-ranking members of the Nazi party (not just those putting in the work like the soldiers, but actual commanders and officials) who were not German, or even Austrian: some were French (like the last on the list), a good amount were Polish (thus shattering the idea of an anti-Slavic Hitler). It would be more plausible to conclude that Hitler really wanted the USSR, not Poland, and Poland was just a zone for troops to go through. Many Poles were anti-Semitic themselves and sided with Hitler.

Thus leading to my point: skinheads are really dumb. Now I never said neo-Nazis (except by mistake). Those people are educated in Nazism. Skinheads are ignoranomuses who are really from the KKK and want to be Nazis.
maximos26

Con

maximos26 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
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