The Instigator
benb4544
Pro (for)
Losing
9 Points
The Contender
mrmatt505
Con (against)
Winning
28 Points

Repealing the Don't ask don't policy.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/15/2008 Category: Politics
Updated: 9 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 1,529 times Debate No: 1825
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (3)
Votes (11)

 

benb4544

Pro

DADT is a counterproductive and it rids of very effective military personnel. Doctors, Mechanics, Pilots, Engineers, and etc. are being dishonorably discharged for coming out and saying they are homosexual. Bill Clinton established this policy to theoretically raise the cohesion level of the troops, but what it has don is it has been responsible for over ten thouand dishonorable discharges over the past decade.
mrmatt505

Con

DADT was implemented in order to defend the rights of homosexuals and continues to be as such. Now if this debate were to say "Repeal DADT AND allow Gays to serve openly in the military" then you would have basis for your arguments. Preexisting laws prevent the ability for gays to serve at all in the military and restricts their rights. Without it, more persecution would happen than happens now. A military operative is required by oath to repect and follow rules under the branch they serve. That means if you were asked if you were homosexual or not, you would be bound by oath to tell the truth. With DADT this does not occur and it actually prevents prosecution if the knowledge is leaked. I have homosexual friends in the military and the people above them KNOW that they are gay but take no action because they never asked. If the knowledge is leaked without the person actually making the statement, no prosecution is allowed without negative repercussions by the person in question. That is why DADT is far more beneficial than if there was no law because, as I said before, pre-existing laws prohibit all gays into the military.
Thanks!
Debate Round No. 1
benb4544

Pro

Homosexuals are having to hide their identities and it is dehumanizing. If it is in favor of the rights of the certain individuals why does it force them to hide their identities? Gays aren't prosecuted (from military personnel), its a myth. The only prosecuting is strictly coming from the law-enforcement within the miltary.
Britian had a policy closely correlating with the DADT policy. It was abandoned and thus repealed (1999) and since then there has only been 2 resignations and one of them was apparently leaving anyways, also the amount of dishonorable discharges declined . Cohesion levels went up. Cohesion level is actually altered due to the DADT policy.

Nice Forensics Logo btw.
mrmatt505

Con

I am 100% for establishing a free military where gays can serve openly without negative repercussions. But, repealing DADT will not magically solve the problem of discharging gays for being gay. As I pointed out in my first set of arguments, there are preexisting laws that prevent gays from serving in the military and they would have to be overcome before we can just repeal DADT. It is paramount that we realize that DADT was established to defend the rights of gays because certain political barriers prevented gays from serving openly.

Now I will go to the line by line and answer the arguments appropriately.

I agree with everything you said about how allowing gays to serve openly allows for a higher unit cohesion, but you dropped my contention that there ARE previous barriers that must be overcome first and foremost for us to see any action. DADT would die if we annihilated these previous problems.

I know for a fact that there are previous barriers because I read ALL about it last year in debate! :)
Thanks!
Debate Round No. 2
benb4544

Pro

benb4544 forfeited this round.
mrmatt505

Con

Extend my argumentation stating that DADT is necessary to ensure gay rights. It may not be the best thing, but post repealing DADT would be far more detrimental than status quo. This round was conceded by the pro, that constitutes an automatic win for the con.
Thanks all!
Debate Round No. 3
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by mrmatt505 9 years ago
mrmatt505
Reachingformore, I debated the resolution last year for DADT and more evidence indicated that homosexuals were not dishonorably discharged AND there was "lesbian baiting" pre-DADT. What happened during DADT was acts of people proclaiming they were homosexual and then realizing that they probably shouldn't have said that. My p[oints still go back to repealing the laws the were pre-DADT THEN repealing DADT. The one action cannot stand on its own. Furthermore, there was so much politics with DADT that it prevented any form of discharge as long as the homosexual person him/herself did not speak out saying that the were homosexual.
Posted by goldspurs 9 years ago
goldspurs
Ben,

you do not receive a dishonorable discharge if you are discharged for being a homosexual. No need for lying if you have a good argument.

"It also allows lesbian baiting, where an officer can sexually assault a woman and threaten her by claiming he would call her a lesbian if she refused his "affections"

Reachingformore, been in the Army 7 years and I have never heard of "lesbian bating".
Posted by reachingformore 9 years ago
reachingformore
Just to put this up there...several of our allies have actually allowed homosexuals and etc to serve inside of their military, and they have had no disrupted unit cohesion or outrageous gay hate crimes.

Also there are several pieces of evidence out there--and some I have because I had a debate case about this last year; on how by forcing these individuals to hide their true selves it stems a negative outlook onto their lives...subliminal messaging you could say.

It also allows lesbian baiting, where an officer can sexually assault a woman and threaten her by claiming he would call her a lesbian if she refused his "affections."

I'm really upset the pro conceded.
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Vote Placed by mrmatt505 8 years ago
mrmatt505
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