The Instigator
Sincerely_Millenial
Pro (for)
Tied
0 Points
The Contender
Ariesx
Con (against)
Tied
0 Points

Rescuing our Failing Education System

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/25/2016 Category: Education
Updated: 1 year ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 721 times Debate No: 85537
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (19)
Votes (0)

 

Sincerely_Millenial

Pro

It has become abundantly clear that the United States educational system has failed to provide our nation with smart, educated, and knowledgeable young adults that can produce effective ideas and instruments to better our government, our economy, and our well-being. My argument is to call for a total reform of the educational system by erasing the current system and replacing it with one that closely resembles the German education system. I think it would be a more effective approach in producing great thinkers, rightly distribute jobs based on education and experience rather than solely relying on recommendations and relationship ties. It would remove the restrictions of jobs for the under-educated, leave higher-leveled jobs for those who achieved their station through hard work and determination rather than race, money, or sex, and it would allow for more creative flow between people of equal intelligence to better the economy.
Ariesx

Con

I agree with rescuing our failing education system. I think it is cause that all Americans can agree with. The argument is on how this should be executed. I believe that Pro has a poor plan borrowed from Germany. I will be proving that there is a much better education model called the charter school system. I will be proving that the charter school system will outmatch the German system, and make this system look pathetic.
Charter School System-A charter school is a US and Canadian term for a school that receives public funding, but operates independently of the established public school system, in which it is located. Charter schools are an example of alternative education. I believe that public schools need to compete, and blossom new education systems that will satisfy ambitious students. I believe that schools need to compete for Parental approval in order for a better education system.
http://www.ncpa.org...
This link outlines the idea that private schools outperform public schools. This is because private schools are allowed to compete. They compete for parental approval, and if they do not perform well, than Parents can take their kids out.
A 10 percent increase in enrollment in private schools improves PISA math test scores by more than nine percent of a standard deviation, nearly equal to a half a year's worth of learning. For science and reading, a 10 percent increase in private school enrollment generates an improvement of more than five percent of a standard deviation -- more than one-fifth of a grade level. In educational spending, a 10 percent increase in the private school enrollment leads to a $3,209 reduction in spending per student -- on average, more than 5 percent of the total education spending per student through age 15 for OECD countries. In the Netherlands, more than three-quarters of 15-year-old students attend privately operated schools; about 50 percent of students attend private schools in Belgium, Ireland and Korea, while only 5 percent attend private schools in Greece, Iceland, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Poland, Sweden and Turkey. - See more at: http://www.ncpa.org...

Public Schools need the same kind of system. If the German system is forced on all schools, than it might not work, and launch another 12 years of horribly educated people. In a charter school system, schools are free to use a German system, and Finland System. If it works more schools will try to perfect the system.
Germany is also different from America, and a German System is subject to unintended consequences in America.
Debate Round No. 1
Sincerely_Millenial

Pro

Sincerely_Millenial forfeited this round.
Ariesx

Con

German school systems are pathetic. Even my opponent knows this truth.
Debate Round No. 2
Sincerely_Millenial

Pro

A competitive system would also be a great tool, but there are too many factors that go into that kind of system. You say that a Charter school system receives public funding, but where is the funding coming from exactly? If it comes from the taxpayers, then how are you going to decide which taxes will pay for one system and which taxes will pay for the other? And if you choose two different tax systems to fund public school and charter school, isn"t there a likely chance that one will get more funding than the other? Generally a school does better when it has more funding, so you can"t really judge school systems efficiency based on their scores if one has more access to newer material than the other. A public school could be just as good as the charter school if it was given equal funding. I am not opposed to charter schools and private schools; my argument only lies with the public education system. I think charter and private schools should be left to their own choices. The public school system is what needs to be remodeled. And before you dismiss the German school system, let me explain it a little bit more in detail so that you can understand.

The Hauptschule (grades 5-9) teaches the same subjects as the Realschule and Gymnasium, but at a slower pace and with some vocational-oriented courses. It leads to part-time enrollment in a vocational school combined with apprenticeship training until the age of 18. These are for those students who struggle in class or fail to put in the same effort as others. Instead of being forced to graduate with a certain GPA average, their strength in certain classes and weaknesses in others determine which future job(s) they will be trained for that do not require that high of an education.

The Realschule (grades 5-10 in most states) leads to part-time vocational schools and higher vocational schools. It is now possible for students with high academic achievement at the Realschule to switch to a Gymnasium on graduation.
The Gymnasium leads to a diploma called the Abitur and prepares students for university study or for a dual academic and vocational credential. Curricula differ from school to school, but generally include German, mathematics, computer science, physics, chemistry, biology, geography, art (as well as crafts and design), music, history, philosophy, civics, social studies, and several foreign languages. In recent years many States have changed the curriculum so students can get the "Abi" at the end of the 12th grade. Other States are making the transition but may still require a 13th grade.
The Gesamtschule, or comprehensive school, is only found in some of the states. It takes the place of both the Hauptschule and Realschule. It enrolls students of all ability levels in the 5th through the 10th grades. Students who satisfactorily complete the Gesamtschule through the 9th grade receive the Hauptschule certificate, while those who satisfactorily complete schooling through the 10th grade receive the Realschule certificate. These classes focus on the more difficult subjects like math and sciences (as well as arts but more in depth that the previous schooling) which can be hard for many people to comprehend. I also would like to add that the German system requires students to learn MORE THAN ONE foreign language through all their years in school which I think would benefit everyone when they finally enter into the workforce.

Beyond the Hauptschule and Realschule lies the Berufsschule, combining part-time academic study and apprenticeship. The successful completion of an apprenticeship program leads to certification in a particular trade or field of work. These schools differ from the other ones mentioned in that control rests not with the local and regional school authorities, but with the federal government, industry and the trade unions.

No matter what kind of school a student attends, he/she must complete at least nine years of education. A student dropping out of a Gymnasium, for example, must enroll in a Realschule or Hauptschule until nine years have been completed. Students are required to study at minimum one foreign language for at least five years. A second foreign language is required in Gymnasium. This gives students the option of graduating from a less educational intense school. Instead of their be a standard across the whole nation, the student can opt to take easier courses (of course that will hinder what jobs they can apply for later in life, but that is their decision ultimately).

German students at public schools attend school in the morning. Classes normally start between 7:30 and 8:15 a.m. and can end between 12 noon and 1:30 p.m. Class periods are normally 45 minutes long with a short break in between. There is no provision for serving lunch. There can be a lot of homework and heavy emphasis on the "three Rs" - reading, writing and aRithmatic. The curriculum expands as students move up from Grundschule and depends on which of the three secondary schools they attend. I realize this contradicts my previous comment about longer school years, I admit I was wrong on that one, but if anything it should make the German system more appealing. You have shorter school days with longer breaks and while they do assign much more homework, you are also give a lot more time to complete it.

The school year consists of two semesters and normally starts around the middle to end of August. There are longer breaks at Christmas and in the summer. Shorter breaks are around Easter and in autumn. There is no school on public holidays. The Christmas break is usually 2 weeks and the summer break is about 6 weeks. The exact dates of the various vacations and breaks are set by the individual L"nder.

(http://www.howtogermany.com...)
Ariesx

Con

Note: Pro has not gave any clear evidence as to how successful the German system is on students. Pro has not given the average GPA or anything to support his theory. All Pro has really done in this debate is give facts on what happens in the German education system.

Defense:
Pro begins the argument with a question as to wear the public funding will come from. Pro claims that the tax payer cannot just pay for all of this. Okay, we both agree that the current education system we have is failing us. All we do is take that money that is going into education, and change the framework for education. We also spend 800 billion dollars on our military. You can just take money out of that funding to fund education. Even though I disagree with this, Bernie Sanders and his supporters are comfortable with taxing rich people above 60%. There are several ways to get money for a comprehensive charter school system, and it will solve the education problem.
"A public school could be just as good as the charter school if it was given equal funding. I am not opposed to charter schools and private schools; my argument only lies with the public education system. I think charter and private schools should be left to their own choices. The public school system is what needs to be remodeled. And before you dismiss the German school system, let me explain it a little bit more in detail so that you can understand."
Pro gives Con the added benefit of saying that a public school can be equally as good as a charter school system if it was given equal funding. So, Pro already admits that charter school systems are better than the current state of public schools. This just makes my job easier on proving that charter school systems are better. I am not interested in the German School System. I am interested in the results, and it is unfortunate that Pro did not give the results of the system.

Results of Charter School System:
The Nation"s First All-Charter School District

"New Orleans is the first city to build an education system based on these three principles. As a result, student achievement is on the rise; equity is increasing; and New Orleans citizens strongly back the reform efforts.

Before Hurricane Katrina decimated the city and most of its schools in 2005, 64 percent of public school students in New Orleans attended a school designated as "failing." Currently, only 9 percent of students attend failing schools. High school graduation rates have increased by more than 20 percentage points, from below 50 percent to more than 70 percent. And, in 2013, a study by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) found that New Orleans charter schools deliver five months of extra learning per year when compared to similarly situated traditional schools.:"
New Orleans is an example of where public schools were failing, and charter school systems made it better.
http://educationnext.org...

Pro has not provided sufficient results, and has only taught us about how german school systems. Pro has actually shown results. Vote Pro.
Debate Round No. 3
19 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
You produce one successful instance in one state, Germany is a whole country of success.
Posted by Ariesx 1 year ago
Ariesx
The Debate is over. Leave behind a source if you want me to take you seriously in the comment section.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
A system that would equally distribute jobs between those who work for it an those who didn't. A system that not only allows the student to choose how intense their education is, but gives them more breaks and shorter days to do the homework assigned to them. An education system that relies primarily on state standards rather than being left to the federal government to screw it up. A system that greatly reduces the price of Universities because instead of being a institution that a rich kid can pay their way through just to look good on a job application their acceptance is based on the student proving themselves academically. Germany charges a max of 60 euros for a semester which is the equivalent of 67 American dollars. A system that guarantees a job for those with minimal education rather than casting them aside. A system that offers MUCH smaller classrooms with about 600-800 students per school allowing the teachers to more closely focus on the individual and not just the group as a whole. A school that doesn't focus on uniforms or dress codes (because there are none) but rather focuses on education. Exams that are essay based and not multiple choice so no one kid can guess his way through school.
Posted by Ariesx 1 year ago
Ariesx
I have left evidence of how successful the charter school system has been in Louisiana. What have you produced in this debate?
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
Con has not produced any evidence that his idea works either, so arguing that I have no evidence is not a valid reason since neither do you.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
Taxing the rich people upwards of 60% isn't going to save the education system, it's just going to take away the education from the rich and give it to the poor. I know that first hand. My parents made too much money for me to receive any sort of scholarship OR grant OR aid t pay for college. I was literally told "Oh honey it's okay you're parents make enough money, I'm sure they can pay out of pocket" when I applied for a student loan and was rejected. I AM ALREADY paying for my education and the education of others through taxes, I AM NOT willing to pay more. Get a job you lazy poor people and pay for it yourself like I had to.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
I wouldn't know I have yet to look at the Finnish system, but I can take a look when I become a bit less busy.
Posted by Sincerely_Millenial 1 year ago
Sincerely_Millenial
I wouldn't know I have yet to look at the Finnish system, but I can take a look when I become a bit less busy.
Posted by snkcake666 1 year ago
snkcake666
Then in that case, it seems pretty similar to the Finnish system.
No votes have been placed for this debate.