The Instigator
Con (against)
8 Points
The Contender
Pro (for)
1 Points

Resolved: Abortion is just

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 3/1/2009 Category: Politics
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 833 times Debate No: 7179
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
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Your profile says that you are for abortion. i'm against it, so you may start your affirmative speech if you're willing to debate this issue.


Thank you, snelld7, for challenging me to this debate. I hope that you enjoy it as much as I'm sure I will.

Because you did look at my profile, I am certain that you have noticed that I am *not* pro late term abortion. The abortion for whose justification I will argue will be early term abortion before the formation of nerve cells.
1. Something is justified if it prevents, absolves, or otherwise deflects more damage than it causes.

2. The bible does not unjustify abortion.
A. There exists no verse in the bible that indicates that life begins at the instant of conception and not later during the developmental process after the baby has become a blastocyst.
B. The bible is unreliable. The bible states that pi is three, but we now know pi to be approximately 3.14159.
"And he [Hiram] made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one rim to the other it was round all about, and...a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about....And it was an hand breadth thick...." (First Kings, chapter 7, verses 23 and 26)

3. An abortion subject has not yet developed intelligence. Intelligence drives us to fear death and permits us to feel pain.

4. Abortions prevent harm to the mother.
Many mothers who would have abortions are economically unable to raise a child. They would have two options;
A. Raise the baby without the financial ability, or
B. Give the child to an orphanage, where the future of the child is uncertain, which places great emotional stress on the mother and could lead to psychological complications.

I await my opponent's argument anxiously.
Debate Round No. 1


"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born."~Ronald Reagan, quoted in New York Times, 22 September 1980

(Thank you for breaking your arguments down into numbers, it makes it easier to find)

Con Point 1) Are you forgeting about the psychological problems that come with an abortion?
-I'd accept justify to mean more of "show to be reasonable or provide adequate grounds for"
And it is not reasonable to take another life because you feel as if you've made a mistake (or depending on how you look at it, it's also not justified to stop life from forming because you feel as if you've made a mistake)

Con Point 2-A that talked about the bible not saying when life is) If you believe that life doesn't exist in the fetus, you are wrong. I ask you, Does an abortion kill kill the fetus? Life is defined as: "The condition that distinguishes organisms from inorganic objects and dead organisms, being manifested by growth through metabolism, reproduction, or the power of adaptation to environment through changes originating internally." or "Active or thriving; vigorous..."

Seing as how a fetus is growing and is active, wouldn't that (by the very definition) be life?

Con Point 2-B) First off since the bible is unreliable and can't be used as a viable source, by your own wording, your entire point 2 then does not hold (simply because of the logical fallacy and hypocricy). Secondly (on the bible not knowing PI), if my grade in debate class was 80.14159, then would you say I had an 80% or that I had an 80.14159?

Con Point 3) Would this then justify killing people born with mentally handicaps that either make them not able to fear or have proper working nerve endings, or are in a vegetable state?

Con Point 4) Abortion creates depression and a deep since of "wronged" behavior in a lot of cases that have involved to mental problems and even, in etreme cases, suicide.

Con Point 2-A&B) The solution to not having a baby born into poverty or an orphanage would simply be NOT DOING WHAT IT TAKES TO GET PREGNANT!!!! Killing the baby isn't how you get rid of the problem you present. Not having sex unless you're ready to suffer the concequences, however, is the right solution to the problem. It is not the baby's fault his/her parents can't support him, so (in essence) don't hold him responsible. Plus, even if the baby is born rich; The future of the baby is still uncertain! The future of EVERYTHING is uncertain. Future itself is uncertain.
But I'm curious as to one thing, do you support war?

"If it isn't a baby, then you aren't pregnant, so what are you aborting?" ~Author Unknown

Thank you and I'm now sitting anxiously waiting for your response.


1. You refer to the psychological problems as if they are definite. According to a study done in Germany, "79% of the women had adjusted without any problems." ( The rest of the mental illness from the test suffered from statistically predictable mental illness; "mental disorders are common in the United States and internationally. An estimated 26.2 percent of Americans ages 18 and older — about one in four adults — suffer from a diagnosable mental disorder in a given year." (

A. I sincerely doubt that you are honestly arguing either of those definitions of "life" as both are unreasonable in the present context. According to your definitions, using rubbing alcohol on one's hands would be millions of times more unethical than killing a blastocyst. Also, again, I am arguing for early term abortion. "Blastocyst," not "Fetus."

B. The bible *is* unreliable, and the only time I used it as a source was not to provide a fact therein but to show the particular false verse. My argument has neither hypocrisy nor fallacy. I would forgive a rounding of 80.14159, but rounding pi such is about 26 and 2/3 more inaccurate (80 is 26 and 2/3 or 3). If you, the voter, would round such, I have several more examples from, just to secure my point.

"LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
FACT - Hares and rabbits do not chew their cud.
GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
FACT - Serpents do not eat [dust].
GE 1:29 God also said: "See, I give you every seed-bearing plant all over the earth and every tree that has seed-bearing fruit on it to be your food;
FACT - This would include several poisonous plants such as hemlock & nightshade that are NOT food.
GE 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
FACT - There is no evidence to support this. Furthermore, these Giants are also referenced AFTER the flood, and they are not taken aboard the ark.
Gen 7:19 Higher and higher above the earth rose the waters, until all the highest mountains everywhere were submerged,
FACT - This never occurred, although there is evidence that the Middle East flooded at one point in time when a natural dam (where Gibraltar is now) burst."

2A&B (seen on opponent's argument below 4) - 98.5% of males and 99 to 97% of females do not practice abstinence, meaning that among the 305,934,281 ( Americans there are approximately 301,345,267 who have sex. Of those 301,345,267 sexually active people, only about four million are born every year ( Even if every birth is intended, only one in 75 sexually active Americans intends to have a baby. Your conclusion is impractical and unsupported by the facts. Also, your idea does not factor in rape. Your point that all future is uncertain probably belongs under "4B," so that's where I'll address it.

3. The answer to my opponent's question is "no;" people born with mental handicaps do have a nervous system.

4. (see 1)
4B. Future is uncertain, but the baby born into money undoubtedly has better chances.

If it isn't a baby, then it might be a blastocyst or a zygote.

My opponent has objectively conceded:
Definition of "Justification"
All facts in "2A"
"4," although a disadvantage of abortion was claimed.

This debate is getting interesting. I can't wait to continue.
Debate Round No. 2


1) Here's a list of what I was talking about.


2) Blastocyst is as defined:

A) The 4- to 5-day-old ball of undifferentiated cells from which a prospective embryo develops. In mammals it consists of two distinct parts: the inner cell mass and the trophoblast.
B) A stage of embryonic development that occurs about 5 days after fertilization, when the embryo consists of two different cell types (those that will form the placenta and those that will form the fetus) and a central cavity. Following IVF, the embryos are allowed to reach the Blastocyst stage before being transferred into the uterus, rather than being transferred after the second or third day

It is to my knowledge that abortions aren't even available yet (someone wouldn't even know if they're pregnant yet) . A fetus is formed around the first 8 weeks. Anything before the first three months is early term abortion (about 21 weeks). So you must support everything that undergoes (abortion-wise) before this time (21 weeks).

I ALSO AGREE THE BIBLE CAN BE UNRELIABLE (I dont site the bible at all)

3) But by your criteria, "An abortion subject has not yet developed intelligence. Intelligence drives us to fear death and permits us to feel pain," some mentally handicapped people may also be killed.

4) This contention does not stand because you're never sure about someone's future. People born rich have problems also. They commit suicide due to feelings of resentment and being alone, they become depressed, they are most likely to purchase drugs or alcohol, etc.

+ You said I didn't factor in abortion[....]
- Yes, rape is horrible. But it is not the baby we should be killing in the situation of rape; Maybe the rapist. It is not the baby's fault he was conceived due to rape, so why punish it by taking it's life?

"If we accept that a mother can kill even her own child, how can we tell other people to not kill each other? Any country that accepts abortion is not teaching its people to love, but to use any violence to get what they want." ~Mother Teresa of Calcutta quotes


mrsmooth27 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


uh oh..what now


mrsmooth27 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
It's really too bad that mrsmooth forfeited the last two rounds. Past that, he had the upper hand in the debate, and I voted accordingly.
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by snelld7 6 years ago
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Vote Placed by alto2osu 7 years ago
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