The Instigator
DebaterLogan
Pro (for)
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The Contender
dumbmonkeys22
Con (against)
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Resolved: Birthright citizenship should be abolished in the United States

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
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It's a Tie!
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/9/2012 Category: Politics
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 5,192 times Debate No: 20996
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (2)
Votes (2)

 

DebaterLogan

Pro

I am looking for someone willing to do a simple PFD styled debate.
Please no plagiarism. I am just trying to prepare for the next tournament.
Please be fast with responding
dumbmonkeys22

Con

Why should birthright citizenship be abolished in the United States?
Birthright citizenship does not really do anything to people in the United states. It just gives them the citizenship of being a citizen of the United States. If it should be abolished, then every new born baby would have to take a test to prove their citizenship which will be impossible. The babies have no ability to take the test and of course don't have the knowledge. Yes, maybe when they're older, they can take a test to prove their citizenship but what's the point of that?
If students take the test and don't pass it, what happens? They get kicked out the state? They retake it? It seems a bit pointless for birthright citizenship to be abolished because it will be giving the Government more work to take care of the people that have been born and it will be too hard to keep up with the amount of babies that are born everyday.
Debate Round No. 1
DebaterLogan

Pro

Resolved: Birthright citizenship should be abolished in the United States
I stand in firm affirmation on this bill. I believe that it is unfair, unjust, cheating, and not what the creators of the 14th Amendment originally intended.
Contention 1: This law allows illegal immigrants to cheat the system and immediately become US citizens. Birthright citizenship gives illegal immigrants a motive for cheating the system and finding way to become legalized citizens. In a recent study there were approximately 11.2 illegal immigrants in the United States. The 14th Amendment give motives for all immigrants to cheat there way into gaining US citizenship by having children. The process of becoming a United States citizen normally takes between 5 months and 2 years. A person who has a baby on American soil takes one. Because the baby is now a United States citizen the process is sped up immensely for parents. It is almost guaranteed that the parents will get citizenship because the government will not forcibly deport the parents away from the baby or remove a US citizen, this being the baby.
Contention 2: It is unfair, unjust, and does not create an equal society. I believe that if we allow this bill to remain it gives people who have a child here illegally an unfair advantage. Think about the thousands of people that have to wait through the process for 2 years. The people who have to pay and study in order to become a US citizen. Also think of the people who were paying taxes and benefiting the US economy while the illegal immigrants were illegally in the country and used a leu poll in order to become a citizen. Does that seem fair. Our country is based on a place where we are all considered equal. Does a person who has no knowledge of our country and became a citizen over night deserve to be a citizen more than the hardworking man who has been struggling to gain citizenship for the past 2 years, or the man who has studied and payed for tests, or the woman who has been doing local jobs everywhere in order so that she can pay for the documents and tests in order to become a citizen? The answer is no.
Convention 3: It is not what creators of the constitution originally planned. The 14th Amendment was created in July of 1868. The men who created it would have no idea what would happen 144 years later. It was originally made so that recently freed African Americans would have citizenship if they were born here. Present day this is a means for illegal immigrants to unlawfully sneak past the system and gain citizenship. There have been other countries that have corrected laws similar to this. In Ukraine, they recently got rid of their "Tourist Baby" bill. This bill now states that if you have a baby in Ukraine and you are not a citizen of Ukraine you will not be granted citizenship. So now back to us, I believe that if we abolish birthright citizenship we can create a new bill that is geared towards giving citizenship to babies born of legal citizens of the United States. This would create a more fair and just system and would also clear up the controversy that the original founders of the 14th Amendment could not foresee.
dumbmonkeys22

Con

If we abolished Birthright Citizenship, then we would have to keep up with all the babies that are being born every minute in the United States which would be very hard to handle for the Government. Even though its true that having millions of immigrants have babies and have their babies become citizenship at that moment they are born is a bit unfair. But those immigrants should have their records check to see if they have citizenship in the country. If they don't, they should obviously be marked down on a list and have their information recorded so that they can apply and get citizenship. The parents should take the test to gain citizenship even though they have the baby and if they don't. The Government can fine them for not doing so.
You speak of the country to be equal and fair but in reality, it can never be unless everyone's mind set is set to that. The Government has not been fair with us in the past couple of years so how can they care about abolishing birthright citizenship when they have bigger issues at hand? Having birthright citizenship should not be abolished because its too much work to handle to handle with all the citizens. Knowing that it is unfair to some people, but in life, everything is unfair and will stay that way no matter what happens. So birthright citizenship is a smaller issue for the country which is why its still a law and that its not going to be abolished anytime soon.
Debate Round No. 2
DebaterLogan

Pro

In you argument you are saying that if we abolish birthright citizenship it would cause more work for the government. But in fact would you say that by having this law it is causing the government to do a ton of work by giving these children citizenship and documentation. In both worlds the government has to do a lot of work so therefore your argument is non-unique. In fact by abolishing the birthright citizenship law or changing the 14th Amendment it would in fact lesson the amount of documentation. If the parents have documentation then the baby receives documentation and it simplifies the problem. Now in the essence of what you said about the parents taking the test, even if they take the test is it fair that they pass the whole waiting list and bypass all the rules and regulations that were set up for other families?
America is based on a belief that we all have the same opportunities and have a fair share. The government has actually done everything in their power to create a fair society. While their is an economic inequality that does not mean we are treated unfairly. Now for your last thing stating whether or not it is a big issue or if it is a small one has no relevance to the situation. No matter what kind of inconvenience or problem it should still try and be fixed. This debate does not say when or how the bill will be abolished but the debate of whether or not it should be abolished.
dumbmonkeys22

Con

Well knowing that abolishing Birthright Citizenship will cause every baby to not have citizenship, we will also amend the United States Constitution. Doing this will lead to a opposition on the federal level which will not be good for the country. Illegal immigrants come here for opportunity. Isn't that what this country is for? A start for an education, to get a job and make money. If we abolish Birthright citizenship, we will have many immigrants deported everyday. Not only that but many of the babies will also be deported with them. If the parents child goes to school, gets and education and job, aren't they earning the citizenship of being an American? But if the child has to leave the country once they are born, they won't have that opportunity to do that. The children that are born here are born on United States soil and Jurisdiction, shouldn't that make them a Citizen at birth? Abolishing birthright citizenship will not contribute to the many people that can start a life in the United states. Especially the ones that are being born. The 14th amendment does not say that people that are born here or illegal immigrants need to swear an allegiance to the United States. They just need to be on the jurisdiction of the United States. Many things have changed since the 14th amendment was written but our founding fathers wrote this them for a reason so that it can be pasted down generation to generation. If the people of the United States want to change something that was written in the US constitution, then the whole constitution will be unjust because the it can then be changed more so. We should not change this even if our founding fathers could not foresee this but they wanted the people of the United States to follow something that was put down to make the country what it is today. And changing one thing in the US constitution will not benefit from this country.
Debate Round No. 3
DebaterLogan

Pro

This is where your whole argument is wrong. If we abolish birthright citizenship we can put a law in place that allows only babies of citizens to become citizens at birth. Also while illegal immigrants come her for opportunity, they can do that but they need to do it in the proper and legal manner. That are protocols and regulations that they need to follow in order for them to become citizens and with this it would cause our country to be more american, rather than many other countries illegal immigrants coming here and immediately becoming citizens because they have a baby. The 14th Amendment needs to be changed because it is outdated. Also when you say that changing the constitution is unjust, you are mistakenly wrong because changes are made all the times. These changes are called Amendments, these Amendments are there to fix mistakes and problems within the constitution. A new Amendment can be made in order to amend the 14th and help to fix the common misinterpretation that we have today. Thus i would like to finish my argument by giving an analogy. Say you are waiting in line at islands of adventure for the hulk, the line is the time average people have to wait and the ride itself is the gaining of citizenship. Now think if someone were to cut you right when you get to the front of the line and they did not have to wait at all. So now in regard to the debate does it seem fair for an illegal person to just be given immediate citizenship over a person who has waited up to 2 years? Do you think that is fair? How would you feel?
dumbmonkeys22

Con

Well think about this, at Six Flags Great Adventure, some people can get flash passes which is a pass where you can cut some people in order to get on the ride faster than them. The people that have the flash pass have to pay a little extra but they get to go on a rides more than the people that don't have it. So that flash pass is like being born in the country, which is like automatic citizenship. The people that are born here are born on their native land which should make them automatic citizens. Whether its fair or not, life is not fair.
The people born in the United States are born on this ground, which is there native land which should make them citizens. Even though some people have to take a test, its in the United States Constitution. Our fore fathers wrote it which they want there kids, and there kids kids to pass that on. They want it to make sure it stays with the country forever. It was strictly written for the citizens that live in the United States and for them to follow it. It might not seem fair for other people but they are coming to this country to start a new life or opportunity for themselves. Which means they are coming on new soil to which is the United States. These people have to earn it if they come from a different country. We the people should follow the United States Constitution and not do anything to change it.
Debate Round No. 4
DebaterLogan

Pro

Ok that's the end of the debate. Vote pro
dumbmonkeys22

Con

Ok, end of the debate as well. Vote for Con.
Debate Round No. 5
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by DebaterLogan 4 years ago
DebaterLogan
I need to practice the Pro side, sorry
Posted by happy-bread 4 years ago
happy-bread
I would have accepted if I was debating the Pro side...
2 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Vote Placed by logicrules 4 years ago
logicrules
DebaterLogandumbmonkeys22Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: Asserts the negative.
Vote Placed by imabench 4 years ago
imabench
DebaterLogandumbmonkeys22Tied
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Reasons for voting decision: really, really bad arguments from both sides, no sources used, grammar was that of a ten year old by both sides, no difference in conduct