The Instigator
lannan13
Pro (for)
Losing
5 Points
The Contender
Josh_b
Con (against)
Winning
7 Points

Resolved: Earth has been visited by ancient aliens.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
Josh_b
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 2/18/2014 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 3 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,086 times Debate No: 46178
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (10)
Votes (3)

 

lannan13

Pro

This is the debate for the DDO Olympics Philosphy and morals section. See the link for more details (http://www.debate.org...)

Rules
No wikipeadia as a source
No trolling
1st round is for acceptance and definitions only
No cussing
Burden of Proff is on Pro


Definitions
Ancient Aliens theory- Long ago Earth was visited by Ancient Aliens whoam shared their knowledge with us. (http://www.history.com...)

Earth- the 3rd planet from the sun. (http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Josh_b

Con


I accept, burdon of proof is on pro.

God- An invisible surpernatural being that you can't see.
Alien- A visible extra-terestrial being that you will never see.

Ancient- of distant past: belonging to the distant past, especially to the time before the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in ad 476.
Debate Round No. 1
lannan13

Pro

Contention 1: Aliens in Religion

Anunnoki

The Sumerian culture began around 6000 B.C. To date they are the oldest known civilization on earth. They are responsible for creating the same calendar, mathematical system, and time we still use today. In their ancient texts one will find their story of creation in which they describe their gods the (Anunnoki) This word translates to "Those who from the Heavens came" These cuneiform text explain that the Anunnoki were an advanced humanoid race that came from another planet called "Nibiru" to earth to mine for minerals.

The Sumerian translations offers physical proof this planet has been visited by extraterrestrial beings and man viewed them as Gods. (http://www.earthportals.com...) So this also shows that the texts, math, and calendar they have gotten have come from Aliens. Showing that the aliens were willing to help along the humans.

Book of Ezekiel

In the Old testament of the book of Ezekiel we see that the Prophet Ezekiel not only saw UFOs, but ETs themselves. Let’s look at the text.

“Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man. And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings. And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings. As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.” 1: 5-10

We can see here that even the most popular religion on the face of the planet that is still alive today has seen that Ezekiel has seen Ancient Aliens! Here’s another versus from the Book of Ezekiel that shows that he sees a UFO.

“This was the appearance and structure of the wheels: They sparkled like chrysolite, and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel." Ezekiel 1:16

In this passage this describes a UFO.

Bep Kororoti

This god that has been worshiped for years by the Kayapo tribe in Brazil. You may ask why he is important. Well it’s just the matter of that the god looks like he is wearing a modern day astronaut suit! When he arrived some tried to kill him, but all of the Kayapo’s weapons that touched him turned to dust. (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net...)

Contention 2: Aliens in establishments/buildings

Egyptian Pyramids

The architects who built the pyramids have used several advanced equations in the construction which were discovered thousands of years later. The Egyptians were able to calculate the latitude & longitude accurately. The Pyramids in Egypt were built around 4500 B.C.E. and to this day, we do not have the equipment and/or technology to build them again. Ancient Pyramids are found all over the world. Thus meaning that it is highly impossible that without some kind of advanced ancient alien visit we would not have been able to build the same structures all around the world in the same time frame. (http://unexplainedmysteriesoftheworld.com...) Here this shows that Aliens again where willing to help the Egyptians with mathematical tactics and helped this culture develop a religion and a culture.

Cave Drawling

Inside ancient caves we have found artifacts of planes made of gold that when scientists have put together models they can fly. There are cave drawings that depict alien creators and modern day astronauts. Civilizations around the globe including the Aztecs, Sumerians, Assyrians, and the Hopis claim that their gods were physical beings that came from Extraterrestrials and had taught them advanced knowledge for their time. The Nazca lines located in the arid Peruvian coastal plain is more proof; please view sources for more information. (http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net...) and (http://www.go2peru.com...)

(Note: for some reason the bold is not wanting to go through, so I'm sorry if get confused here)

Josh_b

Con

I would like to prove that this will indeed be a philosophical debate. After my opponents argument, I have concluded that I may circumstantially be held to my own burden of proof. However, I think I will adequately meet that burdon of proof for readers who may not have prior knowledge of my arguments.

Who the Anunnaki Really are

Right from the beginning my opponent asserts that aliens are the Anunnoki. The legend of the Anunnoki comes from a religious Sumarian text called THE EPIC OF GILGAMESH written on clay tablets. The purpose of this text was to Diefy the current leadership(kings or ememperors) and to impliment a heirarchal system in which the leadership was unquestioned because of thier connections with God, or the gods depending on your comprehension of the Text.

What the Epic of Gilgamesh is really meant to be

The text defines Ishtar as being the queen of heaven who arbitrarily called on Gilgamesh to visit thier god Anu from whence he recieved untold knowledge and passed it on to his sons so they could rule over all of the lands forever. This type of diefication of humans is not something that hasn't been replicated in other cultures. Specifically the Bhagavad Gita which speaks of Krishna, a Hindu Deity.

Seperating the Facts from the Fiction

There are number of fallicies used to assert the actual existance of the Anunnaki as being real. The least of which is seperating the content from the context and believing the content to be anything other than metaphoric or for manipulating the masses into believing that Emporer was theocratically ordained.


The Sumar's were more advanced than alien theorists give them credit for

The context of The Epic of Gilgamesh indicates several things which are self evident. However, many of these thing do fit within our concept of history. The fact that the epic was written in the first place indicates that the Sumarians lived in a tool age and had lived in that age long enough that they were using writing tools and they had the mental capacity to create a Twelve part document and intigrate thier history into it. They even built the Hohokum Irrigation system as a sure sign that they were indeed an advanced society. I say that this doesn't fit into our idological concept of history, because the text was written long before the time we refer to as the "age of enlightenment" which ended the dark ages.

Anunnaki defined
"Those who from the heaven's came" is an impossible translation that uses modifiers to manipulate the text for meaning.
The cuniform used by the Sumarians was a one symbol equals one word type of writing that is still used by the Chinese today. The addition of things like past and present tense is something that even latin languages have trouble identifying. Often in Latin languages a modifier is used to represent past actions such as yesterday, or earlier. You don't have to speak spanish to understand this language complication, you just have to listen to a broken english speaking individual to understand that they have problems implementing past tense modifications that we as English speakers take for granted. At best, I think we can say that with all of the modifiers and the expert used of adverbs we can at length say that the phrase means "heavenly." But it takes some digging to find that Anaki is the first born son of Anu. and the likely translation for Anu-naki means the decendants of God, or Heavenly Decendants. What better way to confirm an emporer than to call him a haeavenly descendant?

If you want to read the full Epic of Gilgamesh, you can do it here: http://www.ancienttexts.org...

or the Bhagavad Gita for reference only, it is here:
http://www.bhagavad-gita.org...;

The theory of Ezekial
If we look directly at Ezekial's text and compare it to his other writings, we can assert that he had authoritative command over the Hebrew language. The language is recent enough and extensive enough for us to believe that he knew exactly what he was talking about and exactly how to describe his "vision." Understanding that it was a vision in the first place and not an actual experience can bring this into reality and into proper context. Several other biblical writings claim to have seen a similar beings. Including Daniel, Isiah, and John (in revalations).

The only thing that we can concur from taking the texts together, is that he definitely saw a throne and the other texts confirm that it was an actual throne that used by the Almighty as a place to sit down. I don't doubt that he imagined other mythical beings which he names cheribim during his vision, but I do want to confirm that everyone of the other biblical texts and including his refers to these creatures being seen in visions and not in real life.

Architecture

Having a commonality is not an automatic assumption that all structures were created by the same peoples. However, the people have common roots and they spread across the world with these common roots and ideals that led them to build similar structures. The structures from ancient Japan, and ancient Rome have distinct structures, and the Egyptian Pyramids have a different distinct purpose than that of the Aztecs. One thing we do know about ancient civilizations (the Aztecs being the most recently removed) is that men have an infatuation with the stars. There is a lot to be said about the importance of stars in Navigation, Seasonality, Dates, and Religious practices. There is no denying that nearly every civilization has at some point realized the Earth/Star relationships and made some conclusion as to thier relative location to the Earth. However. this doesn't fit into our ideological concept of history, because it proves that men have had intellegence for a long time before we want to give them credit for.

Most alien theorists attempt to assert that humans didn't have the tools to build the pyramids. However, we know for certain that is not true. Archeologists have found tools that are completely capable of creating the stone and maneuvering the pyramid stones in each civilization. I don't think that any one today will claim that their tools are as efficient as the tools we have today, but that isn't in question. The civilizations also had large groups of slaves and nothing better to do than build exotic ritualistic structures. JP Houdin has even found evidence for a plausible man made internal ramp system that was used to build the egyptian pyramids. (Learn Away)


Nazca Lines
They are worn foot paths used for pilgramage walks that were meant to please thier imaginary gods. They never washed away do to the dryness of the desert.

I want to apologize if I have arbitrarily exceeded my charachter limit. It seems that many of these simple assertions made by my opponent could be entire debates within themselves. We certainly know that the History Channel has prduced a pleathora of videos concerning this topic on both sides. So anything you will find in this debate is a small drop in the bucket of possible imaginations that have been created by alien theorists to hide the truth about the complexity of past civilizations to uphold the idea that all of the past humans were ignorant and moronic creatures.
Debate Round No. 2
lannan13

Pro

Sorry I will not be able to continue this round considering that I only have 15 minutes online between now and Monday. I'll continue my next round. Please give Con the conduct point for this. Please hold off until responding until Saturday and again I'm sorry for the inconvenience.
Josh_b

Con

I am sorry that my opponent cannot complete the full three rounds of this debate. Thank you Lannan for your first round that has been informative and thought provoking.

I will again assert my claim that ancient aliens are not real. They are hoax that is being used to cover up the past, especially when it applies to religious matters of ancient cultures. Rather than believe the truth, and teach the truth about the capabilities of ancient cultures and thier religions, Talking Heads have chosen to cover up these anchient truths as an effort to assert thier control over the masses.

I believe there are two types of religion, celebratory religions, like that of the Aztecs which come from the people, and implementary control religions, like that of the catholic church. We know that the Catholics burned and destroyed (maybe even kept a few) the books and writings of the Aztecs. It was less than 500 years ago, so what the Aztecs did or didn't know about science is lost from public history. They were an advanced society that mostly fell victem to the diseases of the Spaniards.

Rather than take the archeological findings for what they are, many people have chosen to ignore the simplest justification that these people had technology, and have asserted that the technology is alien in nature. "Alien technology" is an effort to confuse the masses and retard technological growth.

I mean seriously, wouldn't it change your world view to know that people of ancient times weren't the simple minded savages we were taught about in school?

Talking Heads- people with enough influence, money, and power to dictate public education and media coverage.
Debate Round No. 3
lannan13

Pro

Contention 1: Aliens in Religion

Bep Kororoti

My opponent has dropped this contention so please extend it. Bep Kororoti proves that ancient aliens have visited Earth due to the likeness of a modern day astronaut suit.

Anunnaki

My opponent goes on to say that the Anunnaki are not aliens, but are the kings. This is false for various reasons. I'll now go into what some looked like and what some represent.

Marduk, or better known as in the Bible as Mordecai, was the god of the waters.
Niburi the planet that they were from is actually represented by a winged disk that looks a lot like a modern day satellite!
Yahweh, one of the current Hebrew names for god and also known to the Israelites as Baal, he was a god of the sky. He is also known for being a jealous god, which can explain his Old Testament where God was a fearful one. (http://www.truthbeknown.com...) We can see that several religions today include these gods and including Christianity.

Book of Ezekiel

My opponent's only argument here is that these were visions and not real life. How else can one describe something so vivid? This has to be an actual sight, because a man like Ezekiel himself, a man of God. Has seen many things and this vision has to be a reality as he has seen these creatures and an UFO.

Contention 2: Architecture

Funny thing about the Egyptian pyramids is that the slaves didn't build them. That's right the Egyptians themselves built them (http://www.pbs.org...) Of course they have had to have had help.
Josh_b

Con

Thank you for extending your argument on Bep Kororoti.

The oldest reference I can find to this Bep Kororoti is dating back to 1952 from an interview by Joao Americo Peret, a confirmed alien theorist who I believe was working under confirmation bias. I can't find any information dating Bep Kororoti, only that he came from the distant past. How distant? I don't know being as the Kayopos don't seem to have a written history. But, here are some things I do know. The Spanish came to South America a little after 1492. They were believed to be Gods and they also carried thunder sticks. Without an exact reference to the begining of this legend, there is nothing to say that this world traveler wasn't a common English sailor who died in a Volcanic Explosion. Mind you it was nearly 500 years between the Europeans arrival and the discovery of this legend.

Anunnaki
The article you have provided is very helpful. I'm not sure everyone will read it, but it proves my point in great detail.
My Favorite Quote
"To reduce this glory to a band of aliens and/or humans is a serious mistake, as it robs the ancients of intelligence and wisdom, among other things, including the quality of humanity itself."

Ezekiel
I'm not painting the whole world with the same brush as far as intelligence goes. Americans have cell phones, Nigeria barely has electricity, but I am saying that Ezikieal was wise enough to know what he did and didn't see when he did or didn't see it. To say anything else is an attempt to minimize his inteligence and abilities.

Architecture
The article you have provided also goes into great detail about how the Egyptians did indeed build the pyramids themselves.

Conclusion
I really would have liked to expound on the 130,000 year old sea-fairing Minoans from crete as a counter claim to your Sumarian argument, but I think it's enough that The Epic of Gilgamesh was written to diefy the Kings of their time. I am also going to reassert that aliens are not real. They are an excuse to cover the many mistakes of early catholics in destroying all of the documents of foreign nations which likely contained complete instructions for all of the technology and architecture of thier time.

I have thus proven that anchient aliens are myths, and the people of earth were capable of the technological advances that have so far been created. I have also explained the reason for this myth to be perpetuated through society, and its purpose. Aliens are Fake.
Debate Round No. 4
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Zaradi 3 years ago
Zaradi
Also, gave conduct as pro asked me to.
Posted by Zaradi 3 years ago
Zaradi
RFD:

To be 100% honest, I'm not impressed by this debate. Both sides could've done a lot better job arguing their sides, specifically con who I'm doubly disappointed in because their side was stupidly easy and they still messed it up.

Anyway, I ended up voting pro off of the dropped Bep evidence. I insta-reject the new argument made in the final round, but even if I evaluated it I don't think it sufficiently answers back the claims coming out of Lannan's argument.

A note to con: there were numerous points in this debate where you say "My opponent's link really proves my point" and never elaborate on how or why. This is really, really bad practice. Like you even point out, a lot of us aren't going to be reading those links because we just don't give two sh*ts. That means the onus falls on you to be making the arguments explicitly as to why his links and evidence prove your arguments, rather than just saying they do. Point out specifically where his evidence bolsters your argument, how it bolsters your argument, etc. etc. Otherwise the arguments just devolve down into "I'm right" "No you're not" "Yes I am" "No you're not".
Posted by Josh_b 3 years ago
Josh_b
If "is God real?" is a philosophy debate as nearly any website says, I believe that "did ancient aliens visit the earth" will probably be in that category.

Also, This debate is grounded in the concept of where aliens came from and the concept of aliens from ancient texts.
Posted by Zaradi 3 years ago
Zaradi
This is philosophy?
Posted by Sagey 3 years ago
Sagey
I think I'd rather get visits from young aliens, not ancient aliens.
:-D~
Posted by bsh1 3 years ago
bsh1
No--continue with this one. Remember to make it relevant to philosophy.
Posted by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
Would you prefer me to do a different debate?
Posted by bsh1 3 years ago
bsh1
Very well, though it seems like this topic would fit better under nerd/fandom, science, or trolling.

This debate must focus on how aliens impacted humans in a philosophical (not scientific) sense. If not, I may retroactively disqualify it.
Posted by lannan13 3 years ago
lannan13
It's under philosophy. Weather or not humans made it on their own or if they had help.
Posted by bsh1 3 years ago
bsh1
Please tell me why this fits with philosophy and morals?
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by MoralityProfessor 3 years ago
MoralityProfessor
lannan13Josh_bTied
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Total points awarded:23 
Reasons for voting decision: Ultimately, Con did a good job of undermining Pro's points, thus winning 'arguments'. On the other hand, Con only gave a few sources which weren't really relevant to reinforcing his arguments, so Pro gets source points.
Vote Placed by YYW 3 years ago
YYW
lannan13Josh_bTied
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Total points awarded:03 
Reasons for voting decision: PRO offered no sufficient evidence to affirm his outlandish claim, and CON undercut the merely anecdotal evidence PRO put forward.
Vote Placed by Zaradi 3 years ago
Zaradi
lannan13Josh_bTied
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Total points awarded:31 
Reasons for voting decision: RFD in comments