The Instigator
xlilmattx
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
MistahKurtz
Con (against)
Winning
21 Points

Resolved: Failed nations are a greater threat to the United States than stable nations.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
MistahKurtz
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/15/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,736 times Debate No: 9699
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (17)
Votes (3)

 

xlilmattx

Pro

I am on the pro and because of this i will ask my opponent to go first please have a PF speech or a contention case no longer then 3 you may have subpoints and use warrents in your speech no rebuttal arguments until 2nd round please thank you!
MistahKurtz

Con

I thank my esteemed colleague for creating this resolution.

I will first propose a list of characteristics for 'failed nation/state' as defined by the Fund for Peace;

* loss of physical control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein,
* erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions,
* an inability to provide reasonable public services, and
* an inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community.

With the risk of being dramatic, I would like to begin by highlighting a few historical occurrences;

The Austro-Hungarian declaration of war on Serbia in 1914 that led to the first world war
Hitler's invasion of Poland that caused the second World War
Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor
America's nuclear attack on Japan
Russia's annexation of its sphere of influence, establishing the Soviet Union
North Korea's invasion of South Korea that catalyzed the Korean War

I could go on, but won't. I ask that before my opponent try to build his own case, he first tells me how these conflicts, which together have constituted the largest waste of human life in the history of time, are the primary cause of failed states.

With some historical context established, I will now put forth my case. The main points I will be talking about today are the reasons why failed states -can not- and -will not- be substantial threats to the United States, and I will elaborate why we cannot allowed them to be punished unjustly, lest we create a threat.

The world we live in today is a different place than the 20th century. September 11th has forced the laypeople to open their eyes and see the world community as a festering pool of anti-American, fundamental Islamic jihadists. This is, of course, an incorrect view. The 'failed nations' that my opponent is talking about, are very rare occurrences throughout the world. According to the Failed States Index, a comprehensive and respected index of countries in turmoil, there are 20 failed states worldwide. That may seem terrifying on the surface, but we must delve deeper and decide; what countries constitute a real threat to the Western world?

Should we worry about Haiti? Considering their dependency on American aid, I do not consider them to be an anti-American threat. While my opponent may object, I am going to choose those countries that constitute a threat and leave to the wayside those that do not. If my opponent thinks that they can make the case that Zimbabwe is willing or capable of orchestrating an attack on the United States, that it will be much to my delight to explain to him the contrary. The fact of the matter is that, given our definition, most failed states are incapable of launching an sort of foreign attack. These countries are suffering from a severe lack of resources, and I would argue that most of those living within these failed states would rather buy food for their families than purchase explosives to wage war on America.

On top of simply their incapacity to launch an attack, most failed states are not interested in global jihad. Why would one living in the Ivory Coast want to attack America? In fact, the only African countries that are having serious issues with Muslim extremism are Somalia, Kenya and Nigeria. It should be pointed out that Somalia is locked in a bitter -civil- war and the only acts of violence against the United States have been the small-scale hostage-taking of cargo ships to fund their internal conflicts, which hardly constitutes a major threat to the American way of life. As for Nigeria; it is not even a failed state. That leaves Kenya, with it's very small contingent of Taliban wanna-bes who do not appear to have substantial support or resources.

But let's look at the Middle East. What failed states pose a threat to America? Afghanistan, Pakistan and Iraq. Exactly the three countries that are under attack by American forces. Let's turn to the definitions and decide the crux of my opponents argument; were these three states, two of whom had a role in September 11th attacks, failed states hen they played a role in threatening American security? All three maintained a rule of law in some form, as Iraq held a powerful authoritarian control over its citizens while Afghanistan and Pakistan relied on tribal leaders and citizen militias to maintain a sort of peace. Given that none experience any sort of wide-scale civil unrest or the inability on the government's behalf to keep order, I would say that we are 0 for 2 in terms of our qualifications for a failed state. While I am not going to argue that any of the three countries I am talking about provided an acceptable standard of living, I would say that their citizen enjoyed a better way of life previous to the American aggression and while it may not be adequate, it does not qualify them to be failed states. 0 for 3. The last qualification is a little subjective. While I am sure that Iraq and Afghanistan were previously capable of diplomatic relationships they, for the better part, avoided them. Given their type of governance, it was simply not in their interest to become a diplomatic state. Pakistan, on the other hand, did enjoy acceptable international relations previous to the invasion of Afghanistan. So, I would say that gives these countries none of the required four characteristics required to call them a failed state.

So what does it mean? I have identified 4 failed states that may be considered to pose a threat to the U.S. One of those states, while dangerous, poses a minute threat that dwarfs in comparison to the threats of other, more advanced and rich countries. The other three are only failed states because of America's hegemony and their threat lies from a political and ideological bent rather than because of their country's condition.

I will conclude my case with my third point in the next round where I will also bring down my opponent's case.

Thank you.
Debate Round No. 1
xlilmattx

Pro

xlilmattx forfeited this round.
MistahKurtz

Con

My opponent appears to be running scared.
Debate Round No. 2
xlilmattx

Pro

xlilmattx forfeited this round.
MistahKurtz

Con

Shameless. I expect I will have to forfeit a few rounds as well when I go sleep and class. This debate is ridiculous in that it actually demands a full day of dedication without sleep.
Debate Round No. 3
xlilmattx

Pro

xlilmattx forfeited this round.
MistahKurtz

Con

MistahKurtz forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
xlilmattx

Pro

xlilmattx forfeited this round.
MistahKurtz

Con

And I, naturally, win.
Debate Round No. 5
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by johngriswald 6 years ago
johngriswald
This wasn't a debate, this was a conversation with blindness.
Posted by johngriswald 6 years ago
johngriswald
This wasn't a debate, this was a conversation with blindness.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Enjoy you 7 points :)
Posted by MistahKurtz 7 years ago
MistahKurtz
Already have.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
*Sigh* Welcome to my world. I'll vote for yours if you vote for mine :)
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Epic fail...
Posted by MistahKurtz 7 years ago
MistahKurtz
http://www.debate.org...

That's his best debate, in my opinion. He uses one round to just call the other guy dirty names.
Posted by MistahKurtz 7 years ago
MistahKurtz
Ooooh that's clever.Sonvab.

For the record, everything I said was WRONG. Made it all up, every last bit of it.
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
It's too bad he forfeited, cuz I'd have laughed like no one's business if he'd posted the aff that I put on that other debate :)
Posted by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
Based on his requests in RD 1, I think he's fishing for PoFo cases for competition. He doesn't want to write them himself, so he's posting on each side of the resolution in the hopes that good debaters will hand him carded cases. I was just the first person to semi-fall for it. :)

But, I didn't give him cards, so :P.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Mathwiz25 7 years ago
Mathwiz25
xlilmattxMistahKurtzTied
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Vote Placed by alto2osu 7 years ago
alto2osu
xlilmattxMistahKurtzTied
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Vote Placed by MistahKurtz 7 years ago
MistahKurtz
xlilmattxMistahKurtzTied
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Total points awarded:07