The Instigator
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The Contender
Con (against)
0 Points

Resolved: I Could Beat You in a Fight

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/17/2013 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,516 times Debate No: 29322
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (8)
Votes (1)




This will be a follow-up debate to my opponent's last debate of the same title which he won [1].

This will be his first time defending the DDO brawler-belt -- And his last!

The rules are simple>>


1. All standard DDO rules apply

2. First round is for acceptance

3. Any questions on this debate should be asked in the comments section prior to acceptance

4. No hitting below the belt

5. No items

6. Starfox only

7. Final Destination


I Could Beat You in a Fight

As PRO, I will be affirming this resolution by arguing that I could beat utahjoker in a fight.

As CON, the defending champ will argue that he could beat me in a fight.

Burden of Proof

Shared BoP


Pretty straight forward. All terms requiring clarification once the debate has started will be defined using the Merriam-Webster online dictionary definition that best fits the context of this debate [1]. If there is a dispute on which definition best fits the context of this debate, the final arbitration is reserved for myself.


This fight will take place in a flat field void of character. There will be no weapons lying around, or any cover. This fight will be 100% mono-a-mono.

Round Breakdown

This fight will be comprised of four 48 hour rounds, which will progress as follows:

Round 1: Acceptance

Round 2: Fighter statistics. This must include Strengths Special Factors and Weaknesses. Since my opponent has already posted his statistics in his last fight-debate, he can feel free to simply copy/paste.

Round 3: Why you would beat your opponent. In this round, Con will not be addressing my R3 argument, but instead he will be building his own case for why he would win.

Round 4: This round is for counter-argument to your opponent's R3 case for why he would win. This round will also contain our concluding statements. Once again, this round is not for countering your opponent's R4 argument, just their R3 argument.

Failure to follow these rules and the round breakdown will be considered a full concession.

Note: Even though this topic is violent in nature, I have nothing against my opponent and all comments made in this debate are in good-humour.



I accept the rules in place
Debate Round No. 1


Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the tale-of-the-tape! In this corner, weighing in at 175 lbs with 8% body fat, we have the challenger, Ryuu "The Meat Grinder" Kyuzo! Wearing his regulation fighting outfit nonetheless!

Me post-cliff diving


1. Strength: His number one strength is, his strength! RyuuKyuzo is a seasoned powerlifter with multiple powerlifting awards. In all his competitions, he has never came less than third. His most notable accomplishments are: Coming first place in the city finals of 2012, and coming second in the Ontario Provincial championships, despite being a full 13.5lbs below his competing weight class [1]! Wow! Let's see a shot of him in action --
Me @ last years provincials setting up for about 400 lbs
Me @ last years provincials clearing about 400 lbs

Ladies and gentlemen, that is 396lbs! (plates are in kg. 25kgx6=150. 150x2.2=330lbs. 330lbs+55lb bar and cuffs=385lbs. 385lbs+2 2.5kg black weights=396lbs) [2]

His official lifting bests are:

Bench-Press: 305lbs
Squat: 405lbs
Deadlift: 495lbs
Total: 1205lbs

His total ranks him between a -Class 1 Powerlifter- and a -Master Class powerlifter- (depending on the weight class he competes in) according to the A.D.A.U Raw Men's Powerlifting Classifications [3]. (Note, Ryuu is a "RAW" powerlifter, meaning he competes un-equipped).

His musculature includes a 47" chest, 26" quadriceps and 40" glutes, which allow him to be what's known as an "all around" lifter, as opposed to a specialized lifter who is only exceptional in one lift. This gives him an all-around advantage in any sort of combat situation.

2. Heart: RyuuKyuzo also has an exceptionally strong heart. A healthy heart range is considered to be under a systolic pressure of 140 and under a diastolic of 90 (around that point is considered "pre hypertension", which means you're at risk of high-blood pressure)[4]. RyuuKyuzo's blood pressure has been clocked in as low as 110/70, with a resting pulse of about 55 beats per minute! [working on pic]. -- With an all-time best of 44 beats/minute at rest. It should be noted that the "normal" range includes up to heart rates of 100 beats/minute [6]!

That guy has got one heck of a ticker! Now let's move on to special factors.

Special Factors

Ryuukyuzo has extensive training in both hand-to-hand and weapons combat (but weapons combat won't be taken into account here). Let's look at some of RyuuKyuzo's training;

1. Aikido: Aikido is a hybrid martial art combining Daitō-ryū aiki-jūjutsu (a form of jujutsu with its roots tracing back over 900 years [6]), Tenjin Shin'yō-ryū, Gotōha Yagyū Shingan-ryū, and judo [7]. It's worth noting that this is the Martial Art Steven Segal mastered and frequently demonstrates in his movies. Despite any reservations one may have on an action-movie stars actual martial skill, Steven Segal has proven his abilities [8]. He has also trained several high-profile UFC fighters such as Lyoto Machida and Anderson Silva [9][10] -- and we all know how well they do (Lyoto 21-3 [11])(Silva 37-4[12]).

In this martial art, Ryuu has achieved his brown-belt status (one rank below black-belt).

2. Wrestling: Ryuu also has been trained in the art of freestyle wrestling and Greco-Roman wrestling. He was trained by Katie Patroch, who (weighing in at 59kg) is ranked #1 in Canada and #5 on the planet in freestyle wrestling [13]. Ryuu has also been trained by Katie's coach, Saeed Azarbayjani, who (weighing in at 60kg) has a list of wrestling accomplishments a mile long:

"The holder of eight Canadian Senior Championship titles in both Greco-Roman (6) and Freestyle (2), Azarbayjani won gold at the Pan-American Championships in 2006 and has competed at the World Championships in both Greco-Roman and Freestyle. He has numerous medals in various international events as a member of the Canadian national wrestling team for over 10 years."[14]

-- including being a quarter-finalist in the 2008 Summer Olympic Games [15].

As such, Ryuu had managed to go his first two years of high-school wrestling undefeated (years 3-4 were taken up mostly by lifting).

Let's look at Ryuu in action!

It should be noted that fellow DDO user Maikuru witnessed the victory in picture 3 (he's in the background) and can attest to Ryuu's skill (obviously this was before he gave into venom and became the black-suit spider-man he is today).

During his time in Highschool, Ryuu excelled at Wrestling to the point of being the best wrestler on his team. This included one 6'5" 300lbs Ricky Wilson, who was ranked second in the unlimited weight class for Western Ontario [16]. Throught most of Ryuu's high-school life, he was dead-even with Wilson on the mat due to his greater speed and strength despite being half his size (<150lbs). This changed in fourth-year when Ryuu went up to 170lbs, at which point Wilson was unable to beat him. This exemplifies Ryuu's ability to not only hold his own against larger opponents, but out-class them.


Everybody has a weakness, and for Ryuu that weakness is a lack of patience. In his first wrestling tournament, he won gold wih a total mat time of only 50 seconds -- thats a little over 10 seconds per match! While that may seem like a good thing, the reason is because Ryuu puts everything he has into his initial attack (which in this tournament was the hip-toss, a technique used extensively in Aikido as the video shows).

On the one hand, when his attack works it carries him to victory, but if it fails, Ryuu's odds of winning begin to diminish rapidly. Not that Ryuu gets tired, but that his muscles, which are compossed mostly of type IIB fibre types, give him what's known as "explosive strength". Explosive strength is what allows you to do great physical feats in a short period of time, such as running 100m in under 10 seconds, or lifting 495lbs for a one-rep-max. This as opposed to type A muscle fibres, most commonly found in long-distance runners, which allow for low-intensity feats over a large period of time. This means, over an extended period of time, Ryuu's biggest advantage, his strength, will diminish.

Now let's look at his opponent!...

8. [Video]
9. [Video]
10. [Video]



Strengths- I'm 6 feet 2 inches tall. I weigh 251 pounds. I am strong (example I can squat 390 pounds ), I am quick, I am smart (4.0 in school) I play or have played on either on a school team or a rec league in football, basketball, baseball, and wrestling. Special Factors- I have a high tolerance to pain (examples: I sprained my ankle in football practice and started for my football game the next day, I pulled my hamstrings at the start of the football season and played the whole season, and bruised and strained my rib cage in the first quarter in a football game and played the rest of the game.). I have had training in self defense. I don't have great blood flow which means I don't bleed out if cut. Weaknesses- I'm not a very fast runner. With my bad blood flow I cramp if I work hard and have a long stretch of inactivity.
Debate Round No. 2


In this round, I will outline why would win. Con will also be outlining why he would win. Keep in mind that Con's case will not be a direct rebuttal to my R3 argument, it will just be his own affirmative case. Direct rebuttals will be reserved for R4.

Before beginning, con has claimed that his squat is 390lbs. That's really impressive, considering it was only 300lbs last week [1]. Since it is incredibly unlikely that my opponent has added 90 lbs to his squat in such a short period of time, I will be proceeding under the assumption that my opponent simply made a typo. If he wishes to further insist that his squat is 390lbs, I will ask him to provide same evidence of this.

1. Strengths

In terms of raw size, my opponent is certainly larger -- by 75 pounds no less. However, this size initial difference is misleading. Let us consider lean body mass (LBM). I am 8% body fat, while my opponent is 17% body fat [1]. While my opponent is still within normal levels [2], he is still twice as fat as myself in terms of percentage. If we subtract this weight and only consider lean body mass, I would weigh 161lbs and my opponent would weigh 207lbs, a difference of only 46lbs. While this is still a significant difference, consider that my only rival throughout my high school wrestling career weighed 150lbs more than myself. Therefore, my opponent would have to more than triple the LBM size difference between us for his size to so much as even the playing field, let alone be an advantage for himself. This is due to my strength advantage.

My opponent only gave one lift (the squat) as an example of how strong he is. I gave 3 lifts which cover every major muscle group, and I backed up these claims with evidence. Not only have I clocked in these numbers, but I've done so under the strict standards of the International Powerlifting Federation (IPF) -- the largest global powerlifting league [3]. So even though my opponent claims to have a 300lb squat, the question still remains as to whether or not his squat would pass international standards. For example, many lifters who don't test their technique and strength in powerlifting competitions typically believe their squat to be deeper than it actually is, which allows them to believe they can lift more than they actually can [4]. If we lower our standards to allow squats even 1 inch above parallel, I could claim my own squat is 495lbs (5 plates per side), instead of 405lbs (4 plates per side).

Further more, assuming my opponent's squat to be what he originally claimed it to be, this means he can only squat as much as I can bench press. The squat involves primarily your Erector Spinae (a muscle group in your back), quadriceps, hamstrings and the glutes [5]. These are the largest and strongest muscles in the human body, especially the glutes [6]. In comparison, the pectorals and triceps muscles are relatively small muscle groups in comparison with the lower and mid-body muscles, so for me to have a bench-press as strong as my opponent's squat shows that regardless of what position we end up in when fighting, I would be able to physically over-power Con.

My opponent brings up his GPA. If he wants to bring intelligence into the fight, I will propose an IQ test that can be done within 40 minutes online. This is the most accurate online test I have been able to find as it is composed entirely of black-and-white Progressive Matrices [7]. This will be a more fair comparison because we are from different countries and therefore our GPA's are not as comparable as an IQ test. If my opponent is willing, he should take the test and post a screen-shot in his next round. If he does so, I will do the same, but I don't want to force him to post his score if he doesn't want to. If he doesn't, I will use this argument instead -- As your typical overly-violent Irish lad, I've been fighting all my life. In preschool I even had a little fight-club going on which was hosted behind a large hill on the playground. I was frequently sent home for beating up the other preschoolers.
I was pretty shameless about it too XD

The point is, I have extensive fighting intelligence that comes from both a long history of fighting and from having been trained by multiple world champions. I've even been trained by 10th degree black-belt Aikido master Kiyoyuki Terada (Terada Hanshi), who was the single highest ranking Yoshinkan Aikido instructor on Earth before his death 3 years ago [8].

2. Special Factors

My opponent has listed 3 special factors.

1. High pain tolerance
2. Self-defence training
3. poor blood flow (won't bleed out)

Firstly, his high-pain tolerance would not serve as an advantage against me. I have never had a major injury in my life, which means none of my joints and tendons have had to deal with the physical trauma of pulls and strains. Unlike bones, which heal back stronger than they were before, ligaments and tendons tend to get weaker and weaker the more they are damaged, and typically never reach 100% recovery [9]. In other words, injuring your ligaments and tendons increases the risk of damaging them again. This will make beating my opponent easier for me. I'm sure he has strong mental will power, which is why he was able to continue with sports despite these injuries, but I've also proven I have high mental will-power by literally placing a potentially lethal amount of weight on my back, sitting down and standing back up with it (squat). It's just that I also have "no previous injuries" going for me as well.

Secondly, my opponent may have self defence training, but as stated previously I've been trained by the best the world has to offer. Typical high-school level wrestling experience simply won't cut it here.

Thirdly, not bleeding out is the least of your problems if your blood flow is poor. A poor blood flow means he won't receive nearly as much of a strength increase when his adrenal glands start pumping adrenaline into his blood as will I. This means while I will be in a state where I'm stronger than ever before, my opponent will stay about the same and continue to get weaker.


Our weaknesses are fairly similar -- loss of fighting ability over long period of time. Therefore, this fight will most likely be won by whomever can initiate the most explosive and focused attack first. Since I am much stronger than my opponent and have much more extensive combat training, this would clearly be me. Furthermore, Since I have a strong heart capable of providing my muscles with whatever they need mid-fight, and given that my opponent has a weak heart, odds are that I would also out-last him if needed. In other words, he would 'gas' before me, which would be the end of it.


I am stronger and more highly-trained than my opponent. The only thing he has on me is size, but he doesn't have nearly enough of it to make up for his other short-comings. In fact, since his size doesn't come with a strength advantage, his size actually serves as another weakness as it adds extra strain on his already weak heart without providing the one advantage that typically comes with size -- strength. As such, I would beat my opponent in a fight. The resolution is affirmed.

I now turn this debate over to con to make his case, reminding him that his argument will be relative to my R2 statistics, not my R3 arguments (excluding the part about clarifying his squat strength and posting his IQ score if he so chooses).




utahjoker forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3


Con has not provided an argument for why he would win the fight. He has therefore forfeited the debate. Thank you and vote Pro!


I have been busy and I conceded this debate
Debate Round No. 4
8 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 8 records.
Posted by Zaradi 5 years ago
Am I the only one who read this in a horse race announcer's voice?

"And down onto the mat they go, Ryu immediately reversing the grip on Utah and putting him in a rear-naked choke hold. Utah squirms and thrashes as hard as he can, trying to fight loose. Ryu's holding on for dear life, can he choke him out!? Are we going to have a forced submission!?"

God that was funny as fvck.
Posted by Apeiron 5 years ago
this made me lol
Posted by thett3 5 years ago
note to self...NEVER be rude to RK again 0.0
Posted by proglib 5 years ago
So excited (actually, my computer is so slow) that I posted it twice.

Now, as a 50+++ old a** married man, my face is burning from the embarrassment that my computer just caused me.

Posted by proglib 5 years ago
Nice pecs...oops, I meant "pics"

Posted by proglib 5 years ago
Nice pecs...oops, I meant "pics"

Posted by Maikuru 5 years ago
Damn, look how young I was back then! I've since lost my looks, but it's worth it for the dance moves.
Posted by proglib 5 years ago
now this is more like it, ryuu!

i was starting to worry...:

"let the best man win!"
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Maikuru 5 years ago
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
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Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Total domination, which is ironic because that's what this debate is about. I generally avoid these debates because they tend to boil down to "Nah ah!" Ryuu did a fantastic job, though, of framing the relevant issues with detailed descriptions of his own abilities that did what these debates demand: paint a picture of how one's physical traits and training would manifest in actual combat. Con didn't maintain this format, which was unfortunate, as it was so well crafted that deviating was devastating to the few elements of a case he presented. Arguments to Pro. Conduct to Pro for Con's forfeit.