The Instigator
Logical-Master
Con (against)
Winning
31 Points
The Contender
rawrxqueen
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: In a fight without prior preparation, Batman would defeat Spider-Man.

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 10/16/2009 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 7 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 2,222 times Debate No: 9716
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (17)
Votes (5)

 

Logical-Master

Con

If Batman and Spider-Man were to fight, Spider-Man would beat the living daylights out of Batman.

First, Spider-Man has superhuman abilities. Batman is an Olympic level human in terms of physical attributes. Clearly, Spider-Man is superior in this regard.

Second, Spider-Man is a worthy adversary in terms of intellect. Whereas Batman abuses his billions of dollars to buy fancy gadgets, Spider-Man actually creates his sophisticated devices (while using an extremely limited amount of resources) whenever he needs them. He is also well known for coming up with advanced battle strategies on the spot. In fact, due to his intelligence, Spider-Man was able to defeat the villain known as Fire Lord (a villain almost as powerful as Silver Surfer) in Amazing Spider-Man issues 269-270 without needing a rematch.

Third, although Batman knows plenty of martial arts, Spider-Man has managed to develop his own unique fighting style that even Captain America (who is regarded as the best martial artist in the Marvel Universe)(someone who Batman thought of as being superior during both comic book crossovers) cannot help but praise.

Fourth, Spider-Man has his spider sense, so Batman won't be able to count on surprising Spider-Man.

Taking these four points into account, our favorite web head would mop the floor with the Dark Knight any day of the week.

I now stand ready for my opponent's case (and am willing to cite any of the claims made above).

Some of the above points may need clarification and I reserve the right to challenge any interpretation of the resolution which I feel does not meet this debate's intentions.
rawrxqueen

Pro

Spider-Man and Batman arrive at a Manhattan bank at the same time, both responding to a hostage situation. Once they realize that neither the Joker nor the Scorpion is responsible for the hold-up, the two heroes turn on themselves, while a confused SWAT team handles the mundane crisis alone. After Spider-Man mocks Batman's costume ("I can barely see your little chest bat") and throaty voice ("Can I get you a lozenge?"), Batman presses a button on his utility belt, causing three billion dollars worth of sonic grenades, bionic bats and satellite lasers to appear and beat Spidey into submission.

http://spiderman.ugo.com...

Possessing no superpowers, Batman has made his career relying on his keen intellect and scientific know-how. He's got an assortment of weaponry for any occasion including razor sharp Batarangs, grenades, a two-way radio and pretty much anything else he could possibly need for any given situation. Beyond that, Batman has a contingency plan should any member of the Justice League go rogue or have their mind taken over by a villain. The guy knows how to subdue Wonder Woman, stop the Flash in his tracks and put a yellow streak down Green Lantern's back. Hell, he could even take out Superman.

He's also scary as hell. His personality is bad enough, but when you couple it with a costume designed to strike fear into the hearts of criminals and do-gooders alike, he's got a pretty big psychological edge in battle.
You think a guy with the proportionate strength of an insect is going to be a problem for him?
http://www.mania.com...

C1: Batman is not as emotional as Spider-man

a. Batman is a billionaire. Parker lives in a crappy apartment with a landlord who threatens to cut off his testicles whenever he inevitably misses the rent check. While this does not directly influence the outcome of the battle, the incidental consequence is that Batman has a clear head - he remains deathly focused on bringing that scummy spider down, while Parker is still wondering whether Mary Jane will go with him to the winter dance when he can't afford to rent a suit.
b. Batman is a loner. Batman has no ties to anyone (except Alfred, and come on, he looks like he can hold his own), and so, again, doesn't have to worry about the bad guys killing his girlfriend while he's out stopping the Clock King. Spider-man, on the other hand, has to worry about the old lady back home not being able to open a jar of pickles or reach the top shelf. Sure, we can relate to Spider-man better than we can relate to Batman - but that doesn't mean a whole lot in a rumble.
c. Spiderman killed Gwen Stacy. That makes you second-guess yourself in battle and stop just before you kill someone. Batman is a crazy mother, he don't care who you are - HIS PARENTS ARE DEAD.
d. If Spider-Man could be said to have a weakness, it's that he's a pretty nice guy. While he possesses the physical strength to tear a normal person's limbs off, he's just not going to do that. He'll talk your ear off and annoy the hell out of you during a scuffle, but he's not going to kill you. Spidey's also got some self-esteem issues. He's one of those guys who talks a lot and constantly cracks jokes to cover up the fact that he's uncomfortable-- doesn't matter if we're talking about a fight or a gathering of heroes. If Batman can knock him off of his game and find a way to shut the wall-crawler up, he might be able to sneak in a couple cheap shots.
e. Although Spiderman may have an edge in terms of sheer genius and an edge in the physical department the fact is that Bruce Wayne is an angry billionaire who is not beyond fighting dirty if he has to. That guile combined with a vast array of weaponry makes me believe that Batman would have an edge in a heads up battle between the two. I have yet to see the same level of intensity from Spiderman. Besides if Mary Jane came calling I firmly believe that Spider-man would leave the battlefield in a heartbeat.

C2: Batman has better training and uses better technique

a. Batman trained in Tibet with hallucinogens. Spider-man trained in the high school gymnasium where he "just said no." Spiderman is strong, but Batman is stronger. Spiderman is fast, but Batman can hold his own. Spiderman is self-taught and has trained well, but Batman has trained with the best and he knows some great tricks.
b. The spider webs would be no problem. He's got a crazy chemistry set in that utility belt. He'd melt that webbing right off. Also, using Batcall, the power to summon a horde of bats to attack an enemy, batman could easily have something to keep Spidy preoccupied while getting out of the web.
c. Batman has beaten more superior villains then Spider-man - giant crocodile, killer clay-man, clown who'll kill you if you don't laugh at his puns, crazy-gas-making scarecrow, etc.
d. Hit and run. Batman can use the remote control on the Batmobile to just run Spidey over - if he dodges the car, you hit him with the plane - or, hell, even the boat.
e. Batman's latest costume is black. Spidey's is red and gold and looks like a reject from a Chippendale's show. You can see it from space.
f. Batman outnumbers Spider-man at least 3:1 when it comes to sidekicks. Nobody wants to help Spider-man, they all just take-take-take.
g. Spidey is too much of a smart-a*s. He'd be making a joke after knocking Batman to the floor, and then get punched in the face mid-sentence. This isn't pro-wrestling son, leave the microphone at home.
h. He's older and wiser then little punk spidey…not too mention taller and heavier. (I'm thinking Frank Miller Batman) He could crack spidey's head off in one move if he gets his hands on him.

C3: Spidy-sense actually isn't that helpful
So what that Spider-man's spider senses are awesome in its power? He may hear the hit coming, and he may even be able to avoid a whole lot of them, but I don't think he could evade all of them. If having the agility of a spider is so Amazing, Spectacular, etc., how come my Spider-kill count is in the hundreds?

And that is, conclusively, why Batman would beat the living hell out of Spider-man.

http://www.helium.com...

On to attack my opponent,

"Spider-Man has superhuman abilities. Batman is an Olympic level human in terms of physical attributes. Clearly, Spider-Man is superior in this regard."

Spider-man's possession of super-human abilities places him on the same level as just about every single villain or even hero in the DC Universe who has superhuman abilities who Batman has already defeated.

"Spider-Man is a worthy adversary in terms of intellect"

As I stated above, Batman has made his career relying on his keen intellect and scientific know-how. Granted, they are, as you said, both smart, but Batman is the smarter fighter. Seeing as how that's basically all he has (plus the nifty gadgets), he could utilize it well in that kind of situation. Also, Batman does not "abuse" his billions of dollars to purchase fancy gadgets, but rather has impressive gadgets made to serve the purpose of increasing his capability. Batman is also considerd "The World's Greatest Detective" and has been previous to the Spider-Man character even existing. He is furthermore a master of disguise, frequently gathering information under the name of Matches Malone. Creating a secret identity for a disguise to achieve access into the mob is something we've on no account seen Spider-Man do.

I address how Batman's technique is superior to Spider-man's in my C2, and his spider-scenes in my C3
Debate Round No. 1
Logical-Master

Con

Cross Examination:

#1. If Batman is a loner, how do you explain all of the sidekicks he has had? Are you aware of how large the Bat family has grown over the years? And what about the Justice League? How does he not have anyone to worry a given all of these affiliations?

#2. How often does Spider-Man think about Gwen Stacy's death during battle?

#3. How would you compare being trained in Tibet with hallucinogens to being trained by Captain America and gaining experiencing from frequent battles with other martial arts masters such as wolverine and DareDevil.

#4.Are you aware that Batman has lost to the super villains you've cited upon their first encounter, only to "find a way to win" in time for the rematch?

#5. This is Batman against Spider-Man; not Batman and his sidekicks vs Spider-Man. If outside forces are allowed however, what is to stop me from citing the avengers, the X-men, The Fantastic Four and pretty much every other group whom Spider-Man is frequently rubbing elbows with?

#6. Spider-sense isn't that helpful? How do you explain Spider-Man using his spider-sense to evade projectiles moving at the speed of light from a silver surfer possessed by Carnage (a scan which I'll link you to in the next round).

And that'll be all for now. I'll post my case in Round 3
rawrxqueen

Pro

Think about the food chain. Bats are above spiders for a reason.

In response to my opponents questions:

#1. Batman goes through sidekicks faster than you or I go through dirty laundry. and nobody besides Dick Grayson seems to has escaped his custody with their sanity and good health intact. (And even Dick seems to have been screwed up a little). The creater of Batman refers to batman as a loner, and goes on to explain the purpose of the sidekicks in the following link. Also, Batman is so formidable in Justice League, you can hardly call him human. (http://www.worldsfinestonline.com...)

#2. There is no way of telling how much he thinks of her during battle, but it would be irresponsible to say that he doesn't at all. I was just giving an example of how Spider-man has more things on his mind then Batman.

#3. That is not the only way he was trained. Batman was Trained by Richered Dragon The Worlds Greatest Martial Artiest. He also trained with Zatara, the worlds greatest escape artiest. He spent time with tebtin monks learning how to control his mind and sprit. He learnt karate from an ascended master in the Paektusan mountains of Korea, and savate from a convicted killer living as a beach bum on an island off Borneo. He discovered the value of judo and ju-jitsu during six months in a Japanese hermitage, and learned the secrets of the tao from an old Chinese woman. He mastered a dozen disciplines, and merged them all into a style which was uniquely his. From the ninjas he learned how to use the shadows, how to use psychology to win the battle before it's even fought, the precautions to take when you make yourself a target, and how to use fear. All of these skills, combined with a photographic memory and a genius level intellect make Batman a much better fighter then Spider-man.

#4. The point is that they were stronger/stronger then Spider-man. I have already given other examples and reasons on why Batman would win a fight with Spider-man even without need for a rematch.

#5. Ok, then I shall drop that point.

#6. How do you explain how theses 'amazing' spider senses don't protect him from a mere butler: http://joshreads.com...

Other sources:
http://www.darkknight.ca...
http://mises.org...

And now, some questions for my opponent:

1. If Spider-man is so smart, as you say, then why does he still remain poor?

2. What fighting technique are you talking about? Please describe this and provide a source.

3. What is your definition of 'defeat'?

4. Who do you think would have more motivation to defeat the other?

5. If Spider-man did not posses his spider senses, how would this effect a battle between him and Batman?

6. Can you please define "prior preparation"
Debate Round No. 2
Logical-Master

Con

RE PRO's initial observations:
=================

It's well understood that Batman has keen intellect and scientific know how, has lots of gadgets and knows how to put the frights into his foes, but the question which we should be asking is: Is it enough? The thing about Spider-Man is that he deals with enemies with gadgets and keen intellect all the time (Green Goblin, Mysterio, etc) and has pretty keen intellect himself. And having stood up to Blackheart and Thanos on more than one occasion, it's doubtful hat anything Batman has up his sleeve will frighten Spidey. One could say that he is Batman's equal mentally,but his superior physically. Given these qualities, the dark knight doesn't stand a chance.

Furthermore, Batsies contingency plans are impressive, but this fight isn't about having preparation, thus such feats are irrelevant.

===============
REBUTTAL TO PRO's CASE |
===============

RE: C1: RE: Batman is not as emotional as Spider-Man

a. There are a great deal of inconsistencies in my opponent's case here. First, Spider-Man lives with his aunt right now in the current comics. Second, although he may not be married, he has matured a great deal over the years (PRO seems to be implying that he is still in high school, but he had graduated college years ago), so it's doubtful that he'd be worrying about whether or not MJ would be willing to go out with him during the night.

b. Batman is NOT a loner? The guy has had more sidekicks than one can shake a stick it (2, 3 and 4). In fact, there is hardly a time in the comics at which Batman DOESN't have a sidekick to worry about. That by definition meets the requirements of a loner, hence making the JLU series creator wrong. On the other hand, the only time Spider-Man has had anything CLOSE to a sidekick was when he was romantically involved with the Black cat, though even that didn't last long. At most, Spider-Man is involved in team ups from time to time, but no more than Batman gets involved with the justice league or some random hero. Furthermore, Batman has had even MORE love interests than Spider-Man has had if you'll compare the two links I've provided (5 and 6) and has encountered villains taking advantage of EACH and every one, so the fact that my opponent brings up love interest to use against Spider-Man is only detrimental to her case.
c. Not only are Spider-Man's parents dead, but also his Uncle. Spider-Man failed to save Gwen no less than Batman failed to save Jason Todd (former Robin)

d. Neither is Batman the type who will mutilate his opponents or permanently injure them in spite of being well capable. Throughout all of these years, you'd think he would have crippled the Joker. Also, he uses the jokes to distract his opponents and because that's part of his true personality. I've sourced this. Spidey Sense negates sneaking.

e. Nor is Spider-Man beyond fighting dirty. There's a reason he has been able to best opponents who are completely out of his league.

RE: C2:

a. Spider-Man has trained with the best (Captain America) and has his own fighting style (16)

b. The Spider Webs would indeed be a problem. Even if we are to assume Batman has the chemicals to dissolve the webbing, Speed is another factor(7). In the link I've provided, Spider-Man moves faster then bullets, when he blocks a number of them with his webs, saving Vermin. Spider-Man could EASILY web up Batman's whole body that quickly, preventing him from touching his utility belt in the first place, much less being able to use it. Spider-Man could then proceed to knock him out as quickly as possible with one punch.

c. Killer Croc: If my opponent can show this foe as at least being capable of lifting a train off of it's tracks, we'll consider whether or not he is even arguably in Spider-Man's league (8). Clay Face: The same goes for ClayFac, although I'd like to mention that Spider-Man has villains like that in his rogue gallery (Sandman and Hydroman) and has won countless times. The Joker: Whereas the Batman has the Joker, Spider-Man has the Green Goblin (who iis just as crazy and intelligent, but actually has super powers). Lets see Batman beat someone on the Silver Surfer's level without prep time.

d. Spider-Man has gotten out of the way of a moving train when he was dropped on it. Considering that he is only about one feet away from being crushed and the speed of the train, he does it all in about a millisecond (9). Not to mention blocking lazers (which by definition, move at the speed of light) with his webshield (10). The point being is that it's unlikely that any trick he uses with his vehicles is going to successfully tag a serious Spider-Man; he's just too fast and the spider-sense just adds to Mr. Wayne's misfortune.

e. Spider-Man's current costume is his traditional Red and Blues.

f. See C/X in previous round

g. All it takes is one good punch to for Batman to be down and out. If a shrunken Spider-man can knock out trained soldiers with one blow, just imagine what he could do to Batman at full size(11)? Not to mention that even if Batman were able to get up and retaliate, we're talking about a guy who reacts to lazers and moves faster than bullets. Batman would embarrassingly miss, hence setting up Spidey for another joke.

h. Older? Maybe? Wiser? How so?

C3: Re: Spidey-sense actually isn't that helpful

Evade all of Batman's blows? He is certainly able to avoid being tagged by machine gun fire at close range without any effort (12). How about dodging bullets from ten snipers at once(13)? As explained here, the only way the spider-sense won't work is if Spidey willfully ignores it(14). As for that link with the butler, that's not an actual Spidey comic.

========
MY CASE: |
========

1) Spider-man's superman abilities:

Although it's true that Batman has tangled with super powered beings in the past, this doesn't change the point which I am making and that is the Batman is at a great disadvantage in this battle. Spider-Man can very well take the dark knight down with one blow and with enough speed to pull this off before any possible reaction on Batman's part.

2) Spidey's genius:

As has Spider-man. What's more, he has done it without the convenience of billions of dollars in his wallet. Whether it be creating an antidote to a flesh eating virus in a matter of MINUTES (17) or learning how to operate an extremely advanced piece of machinery (which he has never even seen before), with such skill that he can do the desired effect with it (which is to divert the shockwave) in a matter of seconds, his genius is not to be underestimated. Heck, even Hank Pym (one of the most intelligent people in the MU) considers Peter to be even SMARTER than he is (15).

Having impressive gadgets made (as in developed by his company) is precisely what I'm saying. And Batman may be a great dectective, but as is Spider-man. Out of all the heroes present in the avengers, Spider-Man is the first to deduce what the collective is (20). Keep in mind that Tony Stark, Reed Richards, Captain America, The vision and Hank Pym were all in the room. I'll admit that creating backup identities is impressive, but is clearly something Wayne has the advantage of due to sheer resources.

CROSS EXAMINATION RESPONSES:

1. Simple. Because as Hank Pym points out (15), he wastes his time and talent punching out thugs via crime fighting. Unlike Batman, Peter wasn't BORN into a great amount of wealth.
2. Certainly. Here's a good description (16)
3. At very least, render unconscious or incapable of continuing the battle.
4. Neither. They don't even know each other.
5. Not by much. He'd still be fast and strong enough to end this battle before Batman could react.
6. Prior preparation: Having knowledge of the battle and time to prepare for said battle in advance.

And that'll do it for now

CITATION PAGE: (see 6th post)

http://www.debate.org...
rawrxqueen

Pro

rawrxqueen forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Logical-Master

Con

Pull all arguments across!

BOTTOMLINE on Spider-Man vs Batman:

1) Spider-Man is fast enough to be avoiding machine gun fire and shielding himself from lazers (which move at the speed of light by definition, although it must be noted that he wouldn't be able to anticipate any light speed projectile without spider sense) at close range. As I've already shown, he is literally faster than a bullet as we clearly saw him webbing up bullets AFTER they were fired. What's more, he pulled this off with his goal being to protect someone OTHER than himself. My opponent has given us no reason to believe that Batman can move at a similar speed, much less move fast enough to avoid being clobbered by Spider-Man the very INSTANT the battle begins (i.e. a speed blitz). Batman won't even have the opportunity to CONSIDER using gadgets.

2) Even while shrunken down to the size of an action figure, we saw Spider-man EASILY knocking out trained soldiers who were normal in size. Again, imagine how one of these punches would effect Batman when up against the wall crawler at normal size. ONE punch is all it takes to put Batman down for the count. As of now, you could probably stop reading and just vote CON since there's pretty much no way Batman is getting around someone who is too fast/strong for him without any kind of prior knowledge of the battle or his opponent.

3) Spider-Man has his own unique fighting style which has enabled him to have fighting skills superior to most of the fighters in the Marvel Universe. Not to mention that Spider-Man has trained under Captain America as well (who is regarded as the best fighter in the Marvel Universe). Even if the two were close in strength and speed, Batman would not have his martial arts skills as an advantage.

4) One of the most intelligent people in the Marvel Universe (Hank Pym) claims that Spider-Man was smarter than him merely at the age of 15 (when he invented his spider tracers). Spider-Man is much older now and more experienced. When taking into consideration his own share of intellectual feats, he can at very LEAST a match against Batman. Thus, intelligence won't be an advantage either.

5) I've shown that the foes who my opponent has claimed to be superior to Spider-Man to have either been beaten only after Batman had lost earlier (hence had time to prepare for the rematch) and/or that Spider-Man is superior and has bested foes even greater still on a regular basis.

When taking all of the facts into consideration, the dark knight doesn't stand a CHANCE! Mr. Wayne would approach the battle with his usual overconfidence and tough guy demeanor, only to be quickly dispatched and webbed up against a lamp post as if he were some common crook. The web head would then proceed to take a picture, make a joke and then continue the night on his usual patrol as if nothing out of the ordinary had occurred.

. . . . to him, life is great big bang up, whenever there's a hang up, you'll find the SPIDER-MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No new arguments next round. Thanks for the debate! VOTE CON!
rawrxqueen

Pro

rawrxqueen forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
17 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by Chrysippus 7 years ago
Chrysippus
C: Con. Double forfeit on Pro's part.

SP/G: tied.

A: Con. Made a pretty convincing case for SM ability; Pro forfeited

S: tied.

Fun debate! :)
Posted by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 7 years ago
GeorgeCarlinWorshipper
Voted 4 CON and 0 PRO. I agreed with CON beforehand and PRO failed to convince me of their side. CON's arguments were also stronger and they frequently cited their sources down to the specific issue.

I was surprised that CON didn't cite the fact that the spider that bit Peter was irradiated and possessed enhanced strength, agility, etc. I was also somewhat confused as to which chronological Spider-man was fighting Batman, as PRO cited a high-school Peter, whereas CON's Spider-man was already far into his crime-fighting career. Overall, a very good debate.
Posted by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
Tickity tickity tock.
Posted by rawrxqueen 7 years ago
rawrxqueen
great i didnt read that until today lol it's fine
Posted by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
It's cool. Post in the comment section by tomorrow and I'll ignore the forfeit. :)
Posted by rawrxqueen 7 years ago
rawrxqueen
Crap! an hour too late!
Posted by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
lulzors. Damn character limit.
Posted by rawrxqueen 7 years ago
rawrxqueen
ok lol
Posted by Logical-Master 7 years ago
Logical-Master
lol rawrxqueen, I don't know if I'll be able to post my case. It's gonna be a pain gathering all of my sources on this day in particular. I think I'll just wait until the last minute and utilize the round for some quick C/X
Posted by Maikuru 7 years ago
Maikuru
I'm favoriting this one with my fingers crossed for an actual debate this time.
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Vote Placed by iPwnuNOW 4 years ago
iPwnuNOW
Logical-MasterrawrxqueenTied
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Vote Placed by Nails 7 years ago
Nails
Logical-MasterrawrxqueenTied
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Vote Placed by Chrysippus 7 years ago
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Logical-MasterrawrxqueenTied
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Vote Placed by GeorgeCarlinWorshipper 7 years ago
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Vote Placed by Logical-Master 7 years ago
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