The Instigator
theprodebater
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points
The Contender
TheBear
Pro (for)
Winning
16 Points

Resolved: In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adult

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
TheBear
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/11/2011 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 1,722 times Debate No: 14365
Debate Rounds (5)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

theprodebater

Con

im con so go first
TheBear

Pro

I affirm the resolution Resolved: In the United States, juveniles charged with violent felonies ought to be treated as adults in the criminal justice system. I value Justice as it is the most topical value when regarding the criminal justice system as there is nothing else the system has been created for. My value criterion, or how Justice is best achieved, is through abiding the constitution.

a) If the constitution is violated, then public officials have violated their contractual obligations to fulfill the constitution which they agreed to do explicitly during their oaths of office. When violated, people are made to be means to an end rather than an end within themselves thereby taking away their autonomy. Autonomy is necessary for morality by Kant's logic and morality applied to the state is Justice. Therefore, violating the constitution leads to the inability to even ask the question about Justice. So, violating the constitution violates the concept of Justice.

Observation 1: This debate does not pertain to the conviction of juveniles as we are talking about the charges. Otherwise the resolution would be worded as "charged and convicted." Furthermore, my opponent agrees to this anyways [3].

Contention 1: Jury Trials:
Without jury trials in juvenile cases, the constitution is violated.
Nolo writes [1]:
Most states do not allow jury trials in juvenile delinquency cases. The few states that do allow jury trials often limit them to only certain types of juvenile cases.

The constitution reads [2]:

In Suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Thus, jury trials ignore the constitution by lacking jury trials. So, in order to attain Justice, we must look past juvenile courts and put juveniles in adult courts. It is the only way to abide by the constitution. Thus, I affirm.

[1] http://www.nolo.com...
[2] http://www.usconstitution.net...
[3] http://www.debate.org...
[4] http://www.thefreedictionary.com...
Debate Round No. 1
theprodebater

Con

theprodebater forfeited this round.
TheBear

Pro

My opponent has made a fatal mistake that practically has already won me the round. There is absolutely no way to negate the resolution now. He has dropped all of my arguments. You can extend the fact that Juvenile courts ignore the constitution, that violating the constitution leads to injustice. As Justice is the value for this debate, I have the most impact. My opponent has no impact as he has not made a single argument. This justifies an affirmative vote as there is no reason to vote negative, but a now irrefutable case has justified an affirmative vote. Therefore, vote affirmative.
Debate Round No. 2
theprodebater

Con

theprodebater forfeited this round.
TheBear

Pro

I extend everything. There have been no reasons given to negate, but many now irrefutable reasons to vote aff, thus I affirm.
Debate Round No. 3
theprodebater

Con

theprodebater forfeited this round.
TheBear

Pro

TheBear forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
theprodebater

Con

theprodebater forfeited this round.
TheBear

Pro

TheBear forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 5
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by writinggirl123 5 years ago
writinggirl123
ahahahahahaha, i love how con is a devil and pro is an angel!
Posted by TheBear 5 years ago
TheBear
No, It's just that I don't need much evidence/depth for the jury trial part. The only contention-level thing I need to prove is that the juvenile courts lack jury trials, which is a constitutional violation. This isn't my actual case anyways and I don't intend on posting it all on debate.org
Posted by 200machao 5 years ago
200machao
is the word limit really small? cuz the jury evidence seemed really fast and lacking depth but if its a short debate i guess its fine.
Posted by TheBear 5 years ago
TheBear
I was expecting to negate the case I already wrote a rebuttal for...
Posted by theprodebater 5 years ago
theprodebater
go first
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by 200machao 5 years ago
200machao
theprodebaterTheBearTied
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Vote Placed by TheBear 5 years ago
TheBear
theprodebaterTheBearTied
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Vote Placed by Cliff.Stamp 5 years ago
Cliff.Stamp
theprodebaterTheBearTied
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