The Instigator
royalpaladin
Con (against)
Winning
22 Points
The Contender
UnStupendousMan
Pro (for)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: In the forum game mafia, it is justified to bus an unwilling mafia teammate.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 4 votes the winner is...
royalpaladin
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 1/31/2012 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 4 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 783 times Debate No: 20792
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (1)
Votes (4)

 

royalpaladin

Con

First round is acceptance only. This debate is part of lannan's round-robin debate tournament.

Definitions

1. Mafia: a forum game in which an uninformed majority is pitted against an informed minority. The majority must weed out and eliminate the minority from the game, while the minority must attempt to gain equal numbers as the minority.

2. justified (Merriam Webster Unabridged): to prove to be right or just

3. bus: A mafia tactic in which a member of the informed minority initiates and pushes for a lynch of a teammate in order to be confirmed as a member of the town.

Two quick observations/parameters

1. In this debate, philosophy can and should be used.

2. My opponent and I are most familiar with DDO Mafia, so we should argue this debate in the context of the DDO mafia community.
UnStupendousMan

Pro

Accepted. I assume that standard debate operating procedure is in place, so I shall adhere to that. Good luck and good debating.
Debate Round No. 1
royalpaladin

Con

Framework

Observation: It would be best to restrict the resolution to
cases in which there is little to no suspicion on a member of the mafia. This
is because in the vast majority of cases in which someone is resisting being
bussed, he or she is not likely to be caught otherwise/has not already been
caught. Since the resolution should focus on "on balance" scenarios, it is more
fair for both sides to assume that the person would not be lynched anyways.

Negative Case

The crux of the affirmative case centers around the philosophy
of utilitarianism. Utilitarianism stipulates that the most moral or justified
outcome is the one that favors the greatest number of people. Thus, my burden
in this round is to demonstrate that bussing an unwilling mafia buddy is a poor
outcome for the greatest number of people.

First, bussing an unwilling teammate may lead one to be
deemed suspicious. The problem with bussing strategies is that they are so commonplace
in Mafia games that it is essentially expected that the Mafia will bus a
teammate in order to be confirmed at some point. In the Inheritance game, for
example, I was suspected of being mafia even after I vigkilled socialpinko, who
had been converted. In fact, some townies continued to accuse me of being mafia
even AFTER I had vigkilled three mafia players, which indicates that bussing
has become very common in the DDO community. In fact, not only is bussing
common, but it may also lead one to become suspicious. In the Illumnati game,
for example, F_16 pretended that Andro had bussed him by cleverly devising a
strategy by which he hammered on himself immediately after she voted to lynch
him. This caused Andro to be killed in the next round because everyone believed
that she had, in fact, bussed him to become confirmed.

Second, bussing an unwilling teammate may cause resentment
and grudges. Since we are a relatively small community, most of the players in
a given game are the same. Bussing an unwilling player can thus cause
resentment and spoil games for the busser later on. For example, if the bussed
player is ever mafia while the busser is town, the bussed player may advocate
having the busser lynched in NP1. Grudges do exist in DDO Mafia. Socialpinko,
for example, has killed F_16 consistently in three separate games: The No Day
Phase game (as the vig even though there was a confirmed mafia player out) as
mafia in Beginner 4.2 on Night Phase 1, and in the C'ACIT game. Thus,
ultimately bussing an unwilling player may be a poor choice from the standpoint
of the community.

Finally, alternatives do exist. If the busser actually
believes that a bus is necessary, he could simply offer himself to be bussed by
his teammate. This could potentially get his teammate confirmed while
permitting the team to win overall while avoiding the second negative impact. This
means that bussing an unwilling teammate is not the most effective option for
winning mafia games, so this still fills the teleological requirements of
utilitarianism.

Thus, overall bussing is not the best solution possible, so
you should negate.
UnStupendousMan

Pro

Ah, phooey. I've procrastinated for too long. Give the conduct to my opponent for me dropping a round.
Debate Round No. 2
royalpaladin

Con

Extend all of the arguments. I eagerly wait my opponent's response.
UnStupendousMan

Pro

UnStupendousMan forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
royalpaladin

Con

Unfortunately, I can do nothing but extend my arguments. Please vote Con and do not permit my opponent to make new arguments in this speech.
UnStupendousMan

Pro

Give all seven points to Royal. I am deeply sorry for not living up to the expectations of formal debate. I fail miserably.
Debate Round No. 4
1 comment has been posted on this debate.
Posted by TUF 4 years ago
TUF
It will be interesting to see where the pro goes with this.
4 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 4 records.
Vote Placed by Hardcore.Pwnography 4 years ago
Hardcore.Pwnography
royalpaladinUnStupendousManTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Guitar_Guru 4 years ago
Guitar_Guru
royalpaladinUnStupendousManTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Forfeiting the whole debate loses Conduct and Arguments.
Vote Placed by KeytarHero 4 years ago
KeytarHero
royalpaladinUnStupendousManTied
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Total points awarded:70 
Reasons for voting decision: Con forfeited, and Pro agreed that all seven points should go to Con.
Vote Placed by Koopin 4 years ago
Koopin
royalpaladinUnStupendousManTied
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Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: Pro gave up.