The Instigator
ScarletGhost4396
Con (against)
Losing
2 Points
The Contender
MarquisX
Pro (for)
Winning
4 Points

Resolved: Ironman is better than Superman

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 1 vote the winner is...
MarquisX
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/21/2011 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 2,054 times Debate No: 17988
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (3)
Votes (1)

 

ScarletGhost4396

Con

This round is just for the acceptance of the debate at hand. The next three rounds will be for the actual argumentation.
MarquisX

Pro

I accept this challenge. I look forward to this debate and I wish my opponent the best of luck
Debate Round No. 1
ScarletGhost4396

Con

I thank my opponent for such an interesting topic for debate, and though I am respectful of his opinion that Ironman is the better villain, I must negate the resolution and argue for the CON. Before continuing in this debate, I would like to define the following key terms from the resolution:

Superman: A fictional comic book superhero appearing in publication by DC Comics, widely considered to be an American icon.

Ironman: A fictional character, a superhero in the Marvel Comics Universe

Better: More attractive, favorable, or commendable; more advantageous or effective, improved in accuracy or performance.

From these definitions, I can make the following observations for the debate:

Observation 1: The analysis of this debate according to the definitions of the resolution is mainly between character-to-character. Because the resolution does not specify as to which way to analyze the character, it's essentially a broad debate analyzing the characters' entirety. Therefore, the debate must focus on the entirety of the character.

Observation 2: To add alongside Observation 1, we must keep in mind that the characters are fictional within literature. Therefore, a subjective analysis on the character must be included in order to have a strong debate as well.
And now, to my debate...

Contention 1: Superman is a better persona than Ironman.
When making an analysis of these two characters, we must look at what they are when they have their cape on and off; what personality traits and symbolisms do these two characters represent is the essential question. Superman, because he is more symbolically significant and humbler than Ironman as well as more connected to the audience,is a better character. This makes him a better character because he is so ingrained in American culture than Ironman.
Sub 1a: Superman is more symbolically significant
What most notably represents Superman is that he is more than just a common superhero (in contrast to Ironman). He is syof the intended image and what the outcome of it has been. Since his conception during the 1930s, Superman was the helping hand for those less fortunate during the Great Depression, later becoming the face of justice when he began to fight against the forces of Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany. Since then, Superman has become the incarnate of the good American mbolically significant as an image of American idealisms and has been analyzed as a representation of a Christly figure. When making an analysis on the subjective level, we can clearly see that Superman conquers this realm because idealism that the country was meant to stand for: peace and justice, in addition to being a Christly figure. The following evidence upholds my analysis:

http://www.rapidcitylibrary.org......
http://www.unomaha.edu......
http://www.examiner.com......
http://www.supermanofsteel.com......
Sub 1b: Superman has a more appropriate personality
When we go beyond the cape and analyze the personalities of the individual characters, we realize that Superman is not just a Big Blue Boy Scout when he wears the costume. Superman has a much stronger moral compass when it comes to the behaviors when he's outside the public eye, which is a much better role model for children than Ironman, who is depicted to be a millionaire playboy who ostentatiously displays his image as a superhero. Ironman is every negative image of masculity and American culture--the idea that money is the one thing that matters and that women are just playdolls. Superman is simply the common hardworking American only having eyes for one woman despite his attractive looks and his status as a protector of a city, which he does not flaunt. Superman is a better role model for America. He's the image of what the common man needs to be and what future generations need to become, in contrast to a man who flaunts money and fame and goes after every woman that he finds attractive.
http://www.justiceleaguesecrets.com......

Contention 2: Superman is a better superhero
Of course, in addition to analyzing the actual character of the two men in question for this debate, we must also analyze their conditions of being superheroes, and as we can see, Superman clearly takes this one as well because of his stronger efficiency, fewer disadvantages, and stronger superabilities.

Sub 2a: Superman is a more efficient superhero
Both superheroes are known to have been saviors of the world in previous media. However, because Superman requires fewer resources to do the same thing that Ironman does, this makes Superman the more efficient superhero. Ironman requires a heavy amount of resources, including repairs for his suit, money to pay for all of it, tests for his suit, etc. Not only does this heavy reliance on resources make him less efficient, it opens doors for him to be more vulnerable because there are so many ways to debilitate him. Superman is just as virtually indestructable as Ironman without the requirement of such a suit, has his powers on his own, and despite the element of Kryptonite and some others to oppose him, the ability of coming to acquisition to such elements of weakness for Superman are questionable...and Superman still is able to save the world just as much as Ironman. If anything is required for Superman, he has the JLA for assistance. To get to the bottom line: it's much harder to put down Superman than Ironman.
Sub 2b: Superman has better superabilities than Ironman
Superman has many of the same abilities that Ironman has with the exception of only a few weapons, and while most of Ironman's weapons are mainly made for attacks, Superman has enough of his own powers for attacks and useful abilities for the detection of crime and aid of people, including x-ray vision, superhearing, microscopic vision, etc. (For example, in an episode of Static Shock where Superman was a "guest character," he used x-ray vision to check for broken bones on a victim).


MarquisX

Pro

Who is Superman? Who is Iron Man?

Rebuttal 1: My opponent states that Superman is a better persona because he is more relatable to the audience. Lets look into that.
Sub 1a: Superman is everything America wanted to be. Notice the use of past tense. It's 2011. No one cares about Superman anymore. He is still very much this Christlike figure but does that make him a better Superhero? He's an icon, no doubt about it but he's boring. In today's world technology is king. Watch this video of defense contractor Raytheon sarcos working on a exoskelton for military use.http://dsc.discovery.com.... Can you imagine the possibilities? Not just in warfare but maybe even construction. Skyscrapers erected in half the time. Superman has ideals and principles and its admirable but doesn't fit in, in today's world.
Sub 1b: Iron Man is no role model. But you know what he is? He's real. He has flaws. And most importantly, he has a personality. He's a womanizing billionaire. He's smooth, witty, and basically a likable @sshole. Who is superman? What kind of person is Clark Kent? More importantly what does he do, when he isn't saving the world? A reporter? That's it? With his talents and abilities? He could dig farms in Africa and he chooses not to. Why is it he only does crime in Metropolis? Tony Stark has been the director of an Agency called S.H.I.E.L.D http://marvel.wikia.com... and Secretary of Defense. Superman is great but what has Clark Kent done?

Rebuttal 2: My opponent states that Superman is a better superhero. I will show you why this is simply not true.
Sub 2a: It would seem my opponent has not brushed up on his Iron Man literature in quite some time. Tony Stark is now a Super human even outside his suit. http://marvel.wikia.com.... Your argument that it cost more resources is now null and void. The power of extremis allows him to repair damages to both him and the suit on the fly(similar to wolverine). Now you bring up kryptonite. Not only does it take away his powers but with a little kryptonite a 5 year old could beat the snot out of Superman. And its not just green kryptonite but according to this http://dc.wikia.com..., there are more than 20 varieties, most with disastrous effects. At this point Superman is looking like more of a liability than a Hero. There is no stopping Iron Man. He suit can withstand a nuclear blast at 2% power. He has a hulkbuster armor that allowed him to go toe to toe with the hulk. You want to talk allies? I've mentioned the hulk already but also there's Thor, who is a God, and both Captain Americas, armed with shields that superman couldn't dent if he punched it with all his might.

Sub 2b: Due to Extremis, Stark's mind could now directly access satellite networks, security systems, and other digital technologies. The armor could be piloted remotely, even simultaneously with several other models in the field. I can't even begin to list all the abilities his various armors have but they're much more than what Superman has. In fact, everything Superman can do, Ironman can do better
Debate Round No. 2
ScarletGhost4396

Con

I thank my opponent for posting his debate here, and I'm going to make a response to his rebuttal. Before continuing however, I would like to make a note that my opponent hasn't posted a case of his own for me to respond to, so that already places my case over his because my case actually exists. Furthermore, he has not argued against any of my definitions or observations that set parameters in this debate, so extend those across the flow. This means that we must judge the debate based on what my parameters for this debate are.
Back to my opponent's rebuttal however, let's begin:

Rebuttal 1: My opponent questions how Superman would be a better superhero for being such an icon representing America, but when we go back to the observations at hand, we realize that we must analyze the two characters in their entirety, not just as superheroes, and that we must look at them subjectively as well as objectively. What this means is that when my opponent asked that question, he was analyzing it in the incorrect context for the debate. In addition to that, it almost seems like my opponent is mitigating Superman's symbolism merely because America just isn't this way anymore as we advance more into the 21st Century. I'm sure my opponent would agree that in America, no matter how much it advances into the future, we stil need to retain the values that make America important: freedom and justice for all men and women of the society and a will to aid the common man. Even to this present day in 2011, we still see people being discriminated against for their color, creed, or sexuality. This isn't just in America either. Gay men in countries like Iran, Iraq, and Pakistan are all executed, while the women are beaten and subjected to sexist laws. There are people in Africa without education, proper living environments, or health, in addition to having similar laws such as this. In this world, we need values of justice and freedom and all of these things, and that is exactly what Superman upholds. Of course, don't take my word for it. Check the evidence that I have posted in my case. These values are important because this is what a society really needs in order to advance. Sure, a new robot or a fancy new type of car benefits a society, but without these essential values that society needs, we don't even have a society at all. My opponent is wrong when he says that America does not have any place for such values because such values is what every society needs in order to be able to exist in harmony at all. I ask the judges: what is better to you? A fancy robot or the right to be treated like a human being?

Rebuttal 2: The accomplishments of Superman shouldn't just be construed only to when he is wearing the cape or because we are analyzing his character in entirety. Clark Kent is Superman, and thus, the accomplishments are all the same either way, and as we can see from the evidence I have posted, Superman in entirety has not only saved the world time and again, but he has also aided to the people, as I have shown in my evidence. So, my opponent's rebuttal here is irrelevant anyway. Furthermore, my opponent says that he is real because he has flaws (as Superman does as well, as shown by his sometimes vicious behavior when he is angered because he sometimes allows his emotions get the best of him), but being real doesn't necessarily make him better. From what I know, he's still a womanizer and an ostentatious that flaunts his accomplishments in people's faces. He doesn't even show the maturity to get over his flaws. Superman has his own share of flaws, but he always manages to stay along with the morality that he upholds and get over what his flaws are in order to better himself. Superman is what people should be: humble, strong, respectful of women, moral, and if we really want to look it from my opponent's lens, Superman is this way on-and-off the cape, not a hero when he's wearing the cape and a billionaire playboy oozing with women that probably don't even mean anything to him flaunting everything he has. Superman is what we should be, and when we weigh that, that's what really matters.

Rebuttal 3: Superman also has these amazing abilities when the suit is off, and he has abilities much stronger and more useful than Ironman's even when the cape is off. Ironman NEEDS this suit in order to be able to help someone while Superman just needs a change of clothes. This suit that Ironman has requires all of this money and resources in order to be competent, and Ironman needs his suit. Therefore, the question about money and resources stills stands in this debate, and as I have shown you, Ironman has many more weak spots than Superman does. His money. His resources. His technology. They are all weak points for Ironman, whereas Superman, the one thing that really gets him is kryptonite. As I've explained, kryptonite's acquisition is extremely questionable. It's a lot of times in the black market, and there's only a few times where Superman has to come into contact with kryptonite. Each and every time, Superman gets out of it because it's pretty easy to get out of the exposure of kryptontie. Just walk away from it. Ironman would be in quite a pickle if he ever were to fall into the circumstances of his disadvantages.

Rebuttal 4: Even without all of these fancy abilities granted by Extremis and the money, Superman can still accomplish everything that Ironman could do, only showing that Superman would need less to do the same thing that Ironman does. That only substantiates my case because it shows that Superman is more efficient.
MarquisX

Pro

I apologize. I meant for my case to be in my rebuttals. I will not make the same mistake. Also as I am typing from a cell phone, I ask you forgive spelling and grammar issues.

Rebuttal 1: I will concede to my opponent that Superman is a better icon. But my point stands. Being an icon does not automatically make you a better superhero. Santa is an icon. So is Jesus. My opponent says we need to look at these characters as a whole. Superman does have this whole "Mr. Perfect" attitude down but again, it doesn't make him a better superhero. We need values of justice and freedom but how exactly does Superman represent this? I can see his moral compass always pointing north, but what has he done in the name of freedom? Iron Man saves people around the world. My opponent has not answered my question as to why Superman only patrols one city

Rebuttal 2: When there is an emergency, Clark Kent runs into a phone booth rips of his clothes and here comes Superman! He's has a different look and a different personality. Can we really say that that's Clark Kent up there fighting? Clark Kent is a reporter. Why? A waste of talent! My opponent mentioned people starving in Africa. Tony stark has paid for thousands of miles of intelli-crops to be planted for no charge. What has Clark Kent done? What has superman done to help these starving people?

Rebuttal 3: My opponenet perhaps misunderstood me. Iron mans suits requires absolutely no maintenance. He and the suit are one. He IS Iron man. He even has an under Armor that is stored in the hollows of his bones. Your argument about his suit being high maintenance is completely outdated. My opponent also ignored the case of the 30 or so diiferent varieties of kryptonite. Also the fact that Superman needs contact with kryptonite is false, as the show smallville routinely shows that just being in the same room as kryptonite renders him powerless and weak. My argument that a five year old could beat him up still stands.

You asked me make make a case, here it is.

Contention one: Iron man is more heroic
My opponent keeps wrapping Superman in the flag and yelling "America America!". You see this all the time in Hollywood movies, especially the ones by Micheal Bay. But who is better for America? Iron man was the primary defense contractor. While on a trip to visit our troops he is kidnapped and told to make weapons. Instead he builds one of the most complex pieces of technology from a cave. He escapes, and the moment he gets back home, he wastes no time in shutting down the weapons part of his company costing himself billions of dollars . Because he saw young Americans being killed by his life's work. But he doesn't just stop there. When he hears his weapons are being used to kill villagers in the middle east, he straps himself in an untested piece of equipment to save the lives of people he has never met. You asked mentor look at the characters in their entirety. Fine. Let's take away the Iron Man armor. Let's also take away Clark Kent's powers. Who is going to make this world a better place now? That's the thing about Superman. He was born with his powers. Without them he is useless. Iron Man made himself into what he is. This is a billionaire playboy putting his own life at risk. Imagine if Kal-El was sent to earth and was on the same level as everyone else. Would he be a hero?

Contention 2: Tony Stark relates more to the audience.
My opponent says that Superman is morally perfect and it's what humanity should strive to be. And he is absolutely correct. But lets be honest, who is this perfect? Who can relate to being a sinless and pure person. Even Martin Luther King Jr, a great American, valued freedom, regularly cheated on his wife. Ask yourself, truly ask yourself, what would you do if you had billions of dollars? I can hear the " I'd give it to charity". You're a liar. You'd probably give some to charity. But most people are going to be just like Tony Stark. We're going to gamble away millions of dollars and not care, we're going to sleep with who we want. I'm not saying no one is going to be responsible but everyone or just about everyone will fall into that human trait of "if you've got it, flaunt it." Superman represents who we would be in a perfect world world. Tony stark represents who we are.
Debate Round No. 3
ScarletGhost4396

Con

ScarletGhost4396 forfeited this round.
MarquisX

Pro

My opponent has forfeited. As this is the last round I must ask that you vote Pro. Thank you.
Debate Round No. 4
3 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Posted by BlackVoid 5 years ago
BlackVoid
Why not just be Pro and say esolved: Superman is better than Iron Man?
Posted by ScarletGhost4396 5 years ago
ScarletGhost4396
No, just who is better in general
Posted by MarquisX 5 years ago
MarquisX
Wait. Are we talking about who'd win in a fight?
1 votes has been placed for this debate.
Vote Placed by Sketchy 5 years ago
Sketchy
ScarletGhost4396MarquisXTied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:-Vote Checkmark-0 points
Who had better conduct:-Vote Checkmark-1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:-Vote Checkmark-3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:24 
Reasons for voting decision: Con loses conduct due to forfeiting a round. Sources and grammar and fairly equal, but Con has a slight edge, so I gave him the point in sources. Pro made the most convincing arguments, and convinced me that ironman is superior to superman.