The Instigator
OMGJustinBieber
Pro (for)
Winning
11 Points
The Contender
Samdeman90
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: It is both better and more rational to worship the stars than the Judeo-Christian God

Do you like this debate?NoYes+2
Add this debate to Google Add this debate to Delicious Add this debate to FaceBook Add this debate to Digg  
Vote Here
Pro Tied Con
Who did you agree with before the debate?
Who did you agree with after the debate?
Who had better conduct?
Who had better spelling and grammar?
Who made more convincing arguments?
Who used the most reliable sources?
Reasons for your voting decision - Required
1,000 Characters Remaining
The voting period for this debate does not end.
Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 9/22/2011 Category: Philosophy
Updated: 5 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 939 times Debate No: 18430
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (5)
Votes (3)

 

OMGJustinBieber

Pro

Before I even begin with definitions, do not take this debate if you are Calvin_Cambridge, Kohai, ScarletGhost, Samian96, or Darknes.

Definitions:

Stars: Massive, luminous ball of plasma held together by gravity.
Better: Morally superior, preferable.
Rational: In accordance with reason.

Burden of Proof: The BoP will be shared. Con cannot win just by poking holes in my vase, he must build his own that worshipped God is both better and more rational. Think of it as a tug of war: Con must build his own case and argue effectively for the win rather than the entire burden being on me.

Best of luck to Con.

First round is only acceptance and definitional comments.
Samdeman90

Con

I am honored to accept this debate. I would ask that my opponent be patient as I am somewhat unfamiliar with this format; however, I am full prepared to argue for the rationality of worshiping YHWH(The Judeo-Christian God) instead of "luminous balls of plasma held together by gravity."

For the purposes of this debate, I believe it's necessary to provide the following definitions:

Worship - reverent honor and homage paid to a sacred personage, or to any object regarded as sacred
(Dictionary.com)
Moral - conforming to the rules of right conduct (Dictionary.com)
Reason - a basis or cause, as for some belief, action, fact, event, etc. OR
a statement presented in justification or explanation of a belief or action. (Dictionary.com)

As to the burden of proof requirements, I am prepared to accept "shared BoP", but I ask my opponent to understand that the structure of this debate assumes a great degree of inter-connectivity, and the basis of my position may well rest in a refutation.

I look forward to opening arguments!
Debate Round No. 1
OMGJustinBieber

Pro

Since my case is to prove that belief in stars is both “better” and rational, my case will be two-pronged making arguments for both of the qualities. This debate is intended to be a little light hearted, so Con can take the debate where he wishes and I will not be too picky about dropped arguments because I realize that I have put forth several that could be their own debate. I do wish that Con addresses problem of evil, however.

More Rational
1. We can be relatively certain that the stars exist. No such certainty exists for God.
2. Regardless of the case of God’s existence, we are actually made of star dust. The Big Bang did not instantaneously create all of the elements we see today. Over billions of years, stars began fusing hydrogen protons into helium nuclei, and later in their life heavier elements such as Carbon-12, created as a result of helium fusion. These stars can then emit this energy out into the universe, which leads me to my next point.
3. Stars die so we can live. While it’s possible that Jesus Christ died for our sins, stars die frequently in the form of large supernova explosions, and in doing so release heavier elements like silicon, carbon-14, oxygen, and nitrogen into the universe [1]. This is a direct empirical fact that is well documented. Additionally, our sun and other stars provide warmth! Space is only several degrees warmer than absolute zero, and without the stars this universe would a cold, dead place consisting of only a few elements and none of the diversity we see today.

Astrophysicist Lawrence Krauss describes the situation beautifully: “"The amazing thing is that every atom in your body came from a star that exploded, and the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics. You are all star dust. You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded, because all of the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron - all the things that matter for evolution weren't created at the beginning of time; they were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way they could get into your body is if the stars were kind enough to explode. So forget Jesus - the stars died so you could be here today." [0]

Better (More moral)
1. Star morality is more tolerant and accepting. Star morality appears to be a more laissez-faire phenomenon. Stars spend 90% of their life cycle on the main sequence maintaining a balance between gravity and the nuclear and electro-magnetic forces in their cores, and tend to their own needs of maintaining a sense of equilibrium. A more “hands off” approach to morality is needed in this country where nearly $3.8 billion dollars of taxpayers money has been spent this year maintaining a costly and racist War on Drugs [2]. Additionally, untold costs are spent locking up people for victimless crimes such as prostitution and gambling. Such an intrusive and tyrannical line of thought has no precedent among star worshippers.
2. The Judeo-Christian God has a mean strike. While it could certainly be argued that God changed between the old and the new testament, it can not be ignore that this supposedly perfect being would be guilty of high crimes if faced in a war crimes tribunal. We can start with Noah’s ark where he wipes out nearly the entire population of humanity because they are “bad.” Given his omniscience, he would have already known that these individuals would turn out this way and that drowning them would be the ultimate resolution. Additionally, genocides were commanded by this divine being against the Midianites [4], Canaanites [5] and Amalakites [3].

[0] See video
[1] http://www.historyforkids.org... .htm
[2] http://actionamerica.org...
[3] 1 Samual 15:2-3
[4] Numbers 25, Number 31.
[5] Numbers 21:2-3, Deut 20:17.
Samdeman90

Con

Samdeman90 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 2
OMGJustinBieber

Pro

saw it coming from debating record, argument extended. I don't expect a debate.
Samdeman90

Con

Samdeman90 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 3
Samdeman90

Con

Samdeman90 forfeited this round.
Debate Round No. 4
5 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 5 records.
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
Thanks, I saw that lecture and the debate was inspired partially by that as well as a George Carlin skit.
Posted by Danielle 5 years ago
Danielle
"The amazing thing is that every atom in your body came from a star that exploded, and the atoms in your left hand probably came from a different star than your right hand. It really is the most poetic thing I know about physics. You are all star dust. You couldn't be here if stars hadn't exploded, because all of the elements - the carbon, nitrogen, oxygen, iron - all the things that matter for evolution weren't created at the beginning of time; they were created in the nuclear furnaces of stars, and the only way they could get into your body is if the stars were kind enough to explode. So forget Jesus - the stars died so you could be here today." -- Lawrence Krauss ... I still think Pro will have a hard time winning this debate if Con argues effectively. We shall see :)
Posted by OMGJustinBieber 5 years ago
OMGJustinBieber
Kohai might have changed, but he was caught plagarizing in the past and in my last debate with him he paraphrased wikipedia immensely.
Posted by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Why not Kohai? He is a great guy!
Posted by Lickdafoot 5 years ago
Lickdafoot
Interesting topic that i agree with. i will be reading this :)
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Wylted 2 years ago
Wylted
OMGJustinBieberSamdeman90Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:40 
Reasons for voting decision: FF
Vote Placed by Zarroette 2 years ago
Zarroette
OMGJustinBieberSamdeman90Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:Vote Checkmark--3 points
Used the most reliable sources:Vote Checkmark--2 points
Total points awarded:60 
Reasons for voting decision: ff
Vote Placed by F-16_Fighting_Falcon 5 years ago
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
OMGJustinBieberSamdeman90Tied
Agreed with before the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Agreed with after the debate:--Vote Checkmark0 points
Who had better conduct:Vote Checkmark--1 point
Had better spelling and grammar:--Vote Checkmark1 point
Made more convincing arguments:--Vote Checkmark3 points
Used the most reliable sources:--Vote Checkmark2 points
Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: "Before I even begin with definitions, do not take this debate if you are Calvin_Cambridge, Kohai, ScarletGhost, Samian96, or Darknes." You might want to add Samdeman90 to the list.