The Instigator
coday32
Pro (for)
Losing
25 Points
The Contender
NickyB
Con (against)
Winning
43 Points

Resolved: Mario wouldn't win a fight against Sonic the Hedgehog

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Voting Style: Open Point System: 7 Point
Started: 5/18/2009 Category: Miscellaneous
Updated: 8 years ago Status: Voting Period
Viewed: 4,896 times Debate No: 8335
Debate Rounds (3)
Comments (10)
Votes (17)

 

coday32

Pro

Sonic would win in a fight hands down.

point 1: Sonic has faster reflexes. It's what he is known for. Mario has no actual ability.

point 2: Ever since the beginning of sonic, he has had the ability to become invincable when aquiring the emeralds and becoming Super Sonic.

point 3: Sonic has a friend for just about any task that can't be accomplished, and I won't even bring them personally into the argument, but they could do stuff for sonic before the fight had sarted.

It's easy to see, Sonic would beat mario. Any one like to disagree?
NickyB

Con

Thank you coday32 for sparking this rather interesting debate!

For the record, my opponent believes that, in a fight, Sonic the Hedgehog would triumph over Mario (presumably the ever-popular Nintendo character, and not the hip-hop artist), and I believe the opposite. There were also no constraints listed as to which game versions my opponent intends these characters to originate from, so I will assume it is all game versions.

Let me begin:

Mario would win in a fight, hands down.

Counter Point 1: True. Sonic the Hedgehog DOES have faster reflexes, but my opponent's claim that Mario has no ability is false. Mario has the ability to jump and stomp on his opponents. Now you may say, "Well Sonic the Hedgehog has quills that would pierce Mario's feet and cause him to lose his powers, shirk, or die," but in Paper Mario, Mario obtains stone boots that allow him to stomp on sharp surfaces. Mario also has plenty of abilities acquired through power-ups. One example is his ability to shoot fire after acquiring a Fire Flower. According to www.iwantoneofthose.com/lifestyle-home/funky-home/hedgehog-excluder/index.html, hedgehogs are rather flammable, leaving Sonic the Hedgehog susceptible to combustion.

Counter Point 2: Sonic the Hedgehog may be able to obtain invincibility through emeralds, but his invincibility is on a "1 ring per second" time constraint, and he may still be crushed, drown, or run out of time. Mario also has the ability to become invincible by acquiring stars that bounce around after he breaks certain blocks.

Counter Point 3: Sonic the Hedgehog DOES have a companion for just about any obstacle he comes across in the Sonic the Hedgehog series, but the same goes for Mario. Mario has his brother, Luigi, that has helped him combat foes, and overcome obstacles on numerous occasions. He also has Yoshi, his dinosaur companion, that can stomp on sharp surfaces (like Sonic the Hedgehog's quills) and can eat and either spit long distances or digest into an egg, leaving his opponent trapped and vulnerable to attack.

I believe I have countered all of my opponent's arguments. I now await his rebuttal.
Debate Round No. 1
coday32

Pro

Okay, my opponent has not shown that Mario could triumph but only tie with sonic.

Counter point 1. We have agreed that sonic has the quills on his back and that he has faster reflexes. He points out that Mario has the ability to jump, or stop on his enemies which is also an ability of sonic, along the other ability titled "spin dash" Also, There are many power ups that sonic may obtain. Take the Genesis Sega Game "Sonic 3" he has the power up to breathe under water, become a fire ball himself, or become electrical. He also has his own version of a star power that lasts just as long as Mario's, and, in almost all games, he has a temporary force field. In other words he evenly matches Mario (if not beating him in this section) but along with all of this, he has the quills and speed previously brought up. Also, isn't Sonic "faster than the speed of sound." Therefore, I doubt that Mario can leap in the air and land on Sonic considering Mario is just a normal everyday plumber with a few power-ups and good friends. Also, against his statement about Fire Flower consuming Sonic, I am pretty sure Sonic could run away from it and since u decide to go with any game made I will point out the tornado attack you can use in Sonic Heroes and the warewolf form in Sonic Unleashed.

Counter point 2: Along with becoming Super Sonic, as I said in my last point; Sonic has many different types of force fields and his own star power. In superpowers I think we agree Sonic has it AT LEAST 6 to 1 (Fire, Water, and Electrical Power ups that work as force fields, his normal force field power up, his version of star power, and super sonic), Sonic also gets these power-ups by breaking capsules similar to Mario's blocks.

counter point 3: I think we can both agree that Mario and Sonic both have an equal amount of friends to help them who could evenly match each other.

point 4: Sonic has beaten what is known as the ultimate life form (Shadow the Hedgehog) and one of the smartest minds know to man (Dr. Eggman). Mario's biggest achievement has been defeating a giant horned turtle and global warming.

I believe I have beaten all of my opponents argument and if not, I have atleast matched them. Thank you for taking this debte seriously by the way!
NickyB

Con

I'd like to thank my opponent for his truly challenging rebuttal.

I would agree with my opponent when he states that, in the first round, Mario has not yet triumphed over Sonic the Hedgehog, but that was only my opening argument. =]

Counter Counter Point 1: My opponent stated in the beginning that "[I have] not shown that Mario could triumph but only tie with sonic". It would seem that in his first counter point he has done the exact same thing with Sonic the Hedgehog. He has not yet told me what Sonic the Hedgehog would do to attack Mario, only how Sonic the Hedgehog would defend himself from Mario's attacks. My opponent also states that "[he is] pretty sure Sonic could run away from [Mario's Fire Flower fireball]". Would this not mean that Sonic the Hedgehog is running away from Mario, thus forfeiting the match, proving Mario to be the victor? I'll let the voters decide on this, unless they would like to move onward in the debate, in which case I will continue.

Counter Counter Point 2: I would like to state that yes, Sonic the Hedgehog and Mario both have the ability to obtain invincibility, but if they can both become invincible, their battle would be a battle of immortals, rendering neither of them victorious. At this point, I would like to remove invincibility from the debate, as it is becoming a crutch for both of us to lean on.

Counter Counter Point 3: I would now also like to remove companions from the debate, as this debate is about a battle between Sonic the Hedgehog and Mario, not their friends.

Counter Point 4: My opponent's statement claiming that Mario's greatest achievement was defeating a giant horned turtle (King Bowser Koopa) is false. He has faced the Shadow Queen:

An ancient demon from the "dark beyond," the Shadow Queen came to the Mushroom World with designs on enslaving it and becoming its tyrannical ruler. Prior to the start of the game, she destroyed an ancient civilization and began a conquest on the entire world with the aid of numerous monsters and the Crystal Stars (http://www.mariowiki.com...).

He also faces off against Sir Grodus, the supreme leader of the extraterrestrial organization called the Secret Society of X-Nauts.

Another enemy he has triumphed over is a giant dragon named Hooktail, whose only weakness is the sound of a cricket.

If Sonic the Hedgehog was able to defeat Shadow the Hedgehog and Dr. Eggman, what's keeping Mario from doing so as well? My opponent has failed to tell me this.

Point 5: Now, if Sonic the Hedgehog decided not to wholly defend himself or run away, in which case he loses, Mario could use a lightning bolt from Mario Kart 64 to shrink Sonic the Hedgehog and inevitably slow him down leaving him vulnerable to Mario's stomp or hammer smash. Mario also has the Slow Flower, which when obtained, can slow down time so that Sonic the Hedgehog could not run from or attack Mario, or Mario could use a Speed Flower so that he could catch Sonic the Hedgehog and squish the stuffing out of him. These are just a few of the more than 1,000 things Mario has in his arsenal.

Point 6: Depending on what world they fight in, whether it's Mario's or Sonic the Hedgehog's, Mario has a slight advantage:

A. Mario's worlds are generally square being a jumping platform game. Sonic the Hedgehog can only truly express his powers on round levels where he can roll at high speeds.

B. In Sonic the Hedgehog's worlds, surfaces are usually rounded, making it a prime environment for Sonic the Hedgehog to perform, but Mario also has the ability to sit down on a hill and slide down at a high velocity to take out his opponents.

So in Mario's world, Mario has the upper-hand, and in Sonic the Hedgehog's world, they can still only tie at the most due to the environments.

I believe I have explained how Mario can successfully defeat Sonic the Hedgehog, and I hope my opponent can explain how, if at all, Sonic the Hedgehog can defeat Mario.
Debate Round No. 2
coday32

Pro

I would first like to thank you for making this debate so entertaining with your immense knowledge of the paper Mario games. I know it is mortal sin to bring up more points in a final conclusion of after much over night thought I have decided it best that I do and give these final points for you to debate and the voters to consider.

counter counter counter point 1: By running, sonic is not running away but only dodging an attack. He doesn't have to go far, if anything he could run circles around Mario and would never leave the area.

counter counter counter 2: I disagree with taking invincibility out of the debate for the fact that Sonic has more of a chance of being invincible then Mario. Also this point previously brought up the fact of the many force fields Sonic may use and if you take these away you would also have to take away the power ups you have brought up.

counter counter counter point 3: I didn't like the idea of having friends in this argument either and this is why. Without the help of his many, many friends in both paper Mario games, you could not get to the power ups you need, there fore making paper Mario power ups inferior. In this, I agree that friends should not be a part of this debate.

counter point 5: I don't think you understand how fast the speed of sound is (769 mph) you could slow him down by 600 mph and still have trouble catching him. I don't know, but I doubt the lightning bolt could do too much to him. Same thing for slowing time, and a speed flower doesn't make Mario the speed of sound, or anything close. Also, Sonic has a trick called Chaos Control in which he can teleport wherever he wants, slowing down time won't help you here.

counter point 6: I think we can both agree that we should put this in a world evenly matched for both characters. I think sonic could make do with a flat planed land and Mario really wouldn't survive in Sonic's world where there are loops that Mario could not get past.

point 7: "Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door" was not a game about Mario, but a game about a BOOK about Mario, a point I will let the voters decide is important or not.

My final argument and my conclusion. Sonic has met and triumphed everything you have thrown at him in this debate. I HAVE shown you that sonic can defend against anything Mario has but also I have have shown you what sonic is better at. It's not necessarily a fight of better power ups, but of skill, and ability. You can talk all you want about what Mario could do IF he was around one of those power ups but the truth is that doesn't always occur, Sonic has better skill and ability with out anything fancy. He is altogether stronger as a character and better than Mario when it comes down to a point.

Once again I would like to thank you for such an exciting debate. Win or lose, this has been much fun for me.....
VOTE PRO!... PLEASE!
NickyB

Con

Thank you as well coday32. This debate has been by far the most fun debate I've participated in. My knowledge of other Mario games is on par with my knowledge of the Paper Mario games, but I feel that Paper Mario is the game that truly allows all of Mario's abilities to shine. I also have no objections to answering the extra points you have offered.

Counter Counter Counter Counter Point 1: Agreed. He may not be running away, but if he confronts Mario, he must also confront Mario's abilities, such as the Fire Flower fireball. As I pointed out earlier, hedgehogs ARE in fact highly combustible. XD

Counter Counter Counter Counter Point 2: If invincibility must still be used, then I must point out the fact that in the original Paper Mario for Nintendo 64, Bowser steals the Star Rod, making him invincible for however long he chooses. Mario captures the seven Star Spirits, negating the Star Rod's invincibility effect on Bowser. Mario defeats Bowser and obtains the Star Rod. With the seven Star Spirits, Mario can use the Star Rod at will, allowing him to become invincible for however long he chooses. Since my opponent has chosen to leave invincibility in the debate, and Mario possess unlimited invincibility at will, Mario has won the battle. I will, however, continue.

Counter Counter Counter Counter Point 3: And therefore, without friends, Sonic the Hedgehog does not have the ability to have his friend, Miles "Tails" Prower, fly him around. Mario's friends in Paper Mario don't really power him up in any way. They only essentially aid Mario in the same way Sonic the Hedgehog's friends aid him.

Counter Counter Counter Point 4: By not responding to this argument, my opponent has either forgotten to counter it, or he agrees that Mario could fight Sonic the Hedgehogs enemies just as well as Sonic the Hedgehog.

Counter Counter Point 5: My opponent has successfully proved that, though the power-ups I mention CAN slow Sonic the Hedgehog down, they would not be anywhere near effective. Mario has more power-ups though. One such power-up is the Sleepy Sheep, which puts all of his enemies to sleep for an amount of time. Another is the Stop Watch, which paralyzes enemies. Both of these power-ups would leave Sonic the Hedgehog entirely vulnerable, thus allowing Mario to wail away.

Counter Count Point 6: Agreed.

Counter Point 7: The only point I made that involved "Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door" specifically was the enemies he fought in that game. In the original Paper Mario, as I stated before, Mario defeated Bowser. I know my opponent said that Bowser is just a giant horned turtle, but Mario overcame him WHILE he was invincible.

Conclusion: I have proved in my arguments that Mario could, in fact, beat Sonic the Hedgehog in a fight. My opponent claims that Mario is nothing without his power-ups, but power-ups are what the Mario games are about. Taking away Mario's power-ups would be like taking away Sonic the Hedgehogs spin move (which would leave him as nothing more than a talking hedgehog...). It is what they are known for and therefore can't be subtracted from the equation, unless you want a fight between a plumber and a hedgehog, which I would also be willing to debate. XD My opponent's choice to leave invincibility in the debate was a poor one, because it allowed Mario to defeat Sonic the Hedgehog, and I believe the voters will agree. I encourage you all to vote Con. Thank you all, and thank you especially to coday32 for the most fun I've had on this website I believe I've ever had.
Debate Round No. 3
10 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 10 records.
Posted by PowerPikachu21 1 year ago
PowerPikachu21
Con did a sly move there: Introducing the all powerful Star Rod! Our hero used it to defeat Nightmare and bring peace to Dreamland! (oh wait, that's Kirby! I had to make that joke!) Anyways, in Paper Mario, the star rod can grant ANY WISH. This means an instant victory for Mario. 'I-a want that-a hedgehog dead!' BOM! Mario wins. Also, invincibility.
Posted by lillunchboxbandit 7 years ago
lillunchboxbandit
I despise both Sonic and Mario, so I think it's a tie. Go Yoshi!
Posted by Gabby042 8 years ago
Gabby042
Go Sonic
Posted by ninjaraygun 8 years ago
ninjaraygun
go mario!
Posted by NickyB 8 years ago
NickyB
Post-Debate Point 1:
After reviewing all arguments in this debate. I realized that my opponent never did inform me on how Sonic the Hedgehog would make an attack on Mario. He only told me that Sonic the Hedgehog has more skill than Mario. Consider this: If you have a football game between an NFL player and a man in a wheelchair, the NFL player has much more skill and ability than the man in the wheelchair, but, if the NFL player doesn't even try to score, he cannot win.

Post-Debate Conclusion: I have told my opponent how Mario would win, and he never told me how Sonic the Hedgehog would UNDOUBTEDLY win, only that he CAN win. I, on the other hand, have told my opponent that Mario WILL win, meaning that, according to my opponent's information versus my information, Mario WOULD win a fight against Sonic the Hedgehog.

Thank you all once again.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
Interesting debate but I sided with Pro. There were too many variables involved in a Mario victory, whereas Sonic could win based on his attributes alone.
Posted by Maikuru 8 years ago
Maikuru
The Smash Bros. tier list says different.
Posted by alto2osu 8 years ago
alto2osu
I'd accept, but I'm totally pro :D Sonic rulez...
Posted by Logical-Master 8 years ago
Logical-Master
Tempting
Posted by Danielle 8 years ago
Danielle
But Mario's Italian and has mushrooms. w00t.
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YouImpossibleChild85
coday32NickyBTied
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coday32
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coday32NickyBTied
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