The Instigator
lannan13
Pro (for)
Winning
3 Points
The Contender
Dpowell
Con (against)
Losing
0 Points

Resolved: Nightmare Moon is an Underated Character in My Little Pony.

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Post Voting Period
The voting period for this debate has ended.
after 3 votes the winner is...
lannan13
Voting Style: Open with Elo Restrictions Point System: 7 Point
Started: 8/22/2015 Category: Entertainment
Updated: 2 years ago Status: Post Voting Period
Viewed: 738 times Debate No: 78830
Debate Rounds (4)
Comments (2)
Votes (3)

 

lannan13

Pro

Rules
First round is rules and definitions by Pro, acceptance by Con.
Second round is contruction arguments, no reubuttals.
Third Round is Rebuttals.
Forth Round is rebuttals and conclusions.
No trolling.
No kritics or counterplans.
No semantics, the definitions provided are those that are to be used in the debate.
BOP is shared.
If any of these are violated then all 7 points shall go to the opposition of the one who violated the rules

.DefinitionsNightmare Moon- Nighmare Moon is the villianous character version of Princess Luna who returned from the Moon in episode 1 and 2 season 1. After her defeat by the elements of Harmony she returned to become Princess Luna.

Underated- to rate or evaluate too low; underestimate (
http://dictionary.reference.com...)

Note that this isn't just reguarding these two episodes, but exspands into more then realized.
Dpowell

Con

I accept your challenge my old friend. I look forward to a good debate with you.
Debate Round No. 1
lannan13

Pro




I would like to thank my opponent for this debate and now it's time to get into this debate.


I would like to start off first here with the Battle against the Crystal Kingdom. Luna and Celestia both faced off against Sombra, but it was shown that Luna was stronger than Celestia. (yes the video is cannon as confirmed by the producers) This was probably where the Darkness truely began to form Nightmare Moon. When we saw what Celestia's worst fear was it turned out to be Princess Luna. In that battle Sombra confirmed this. After Sombra's attempt to frighten Luna by making her see her worst nightmare, similiar to when Twilight went to the Crystal Empire and was possessed by Gak (the purple and greenish entity) and this was confirmed by a second time. Luna was able to over come the Gak since the Gak is darkness. Princess Luna trasnformed into Nightmare Moon for the first time and gone as far to completely anhilate Sombra to the point to where he turned into a spirt that wasn't again seen until Season 4.

Continuing on the Pre-Season one relm we also have to look at is the comics series. In issue 6 Part 2, Nightmare Moon's Gak and darkness possesses Rarity and creates a Nightmare Rarity. Though the major difference here is that Nightmare Rarity actually refers to herself as Nightmare Moon and Rarity as a completely different character. (The comic is shown in video two) already shows an extreme amount of her power.

Now let's get into the series part. Firstly, I would like to point out just how much her power grew from episode 1 to episode two. Here we can see that in the second episode not only did her power cause Princess Celestia to disapear, but she ended up growing taller and her horn grew longer. The show confirmed that the longer the horn of the alicorn proves how powerful the magic is and how supperior it is, kinda like an alpha male. This shows her power growth. Later this is compared to Tirek, Nightmare Moon is shown to have her power mimic Tirek's Nightmare Rainbow. This already shows that her power is under played as it is over that of Tirek's. This already shows that her defeat by the Elements of Harmoney were overrated as she was stronger than Tirek and Celestia. We can see that the defeat should NOT have happend.

Your turn.

Nightmare Moon
Dpowell

Con

Section 1: That video may be canon, but it's not what created Nightmare Moon. She was created out of Princess Luna's jealousy towards Princess Celestia. Though the battle with Sombra revealed Luna's full potential (possibly), it didn't awaken a darkness with in her. When she realized that no one is around to appreciate her and turned on her sister is when the darkness awoke.

http://villains.wikia.com...

Section 2: When it comes to the Elements of Harmony and nightmare moon, it's not as much of a contest as my opponent claims it is. In the first episode, we were told that the elements of harmony were "the most powerful magic in ponydom", meaning that there isn't anything stronger as far as anyone ones knows. The Elements of Harmony prove this time and time again, being used to defeat powerful villains such as Nightmare Moon, Tirek and Discord. So far no ones been able to stop them.

Now if we add that power to an already powerful pony, I'm sure their power will grow. That's why when Princess Celestia easily defeated Princess Luna with them, it was just that, easy. As far as we've seen, no one can match up to the their power.

http://mlp.wikia.com...

Section 3: Nightmare moon hasn't been forgotten and is still a threat, plus some people were (and probably are) still afraid of her. You see this in Season 2 Episode 4 when Princess Luna comes to visit Ponyville for their Halloween celebration. You also see how Princess Luna fears the return of her evil form, which as we see is possible in Season 5 Episode 13. If you look closely it almost looks like Princess Luna. This could mean that there is still evil inside of her, and Tantabus could easily be the reincarnation of Nightmare Moon. If my opponent would care to take notice, at the end of Season 5 Episode 13, Tantabus wasn't destroyed but returned to Luna. Who's to say that he/she couldn't find the opportune moment to gain enough power to sneak out and go hide in a villains dreams? This would eventually give Tantabus enough power to leave the dreams and bring darkness and nightmares to everyone.


Debate Round No. 2
lannan13

Pro

I would like to note that my opponent has violated the rules by refuting my arguments in the second round instead of posting his own arguments and shall lose conduct at minimum, but I will now further my own arguments.

Section 1: Though there was jealouscy between the two, but we can see that it did not fully manifest until after the Battle with Sombra. We can see that this gave her stregth as she turned into Nightmare Moon in that clip.

Section 2: My opponenet is greatly mistaken. There are several times when the Elements of Harmony failed. We have to observe the first battle with Discord and they failed there. It was not just because of the "Discord" that existed between the Maine 6, but was more of the fact that it takes time. The Elemens of Harmony didn't defeat Tirek as it was the Power of Friendship which they unlocked at the season finale. Again another misque on my opponent's part. Not to mention that Nightmare Moon destroyed the Elements of Harmony in the Second Episodes.



Section 3: Tantabus is a key factor. Despite being mostly a dream beast. We can see that it has many of the same abilities that Luna has, but it is different. It is a mere punishment for Luna and what Tantabus did was its job by tormenting Luna. There was no real harm done, but more of a Nightmare. (http://villains.wikia.com...)

Dpowell

Con

I'll admit that I did rebuttal a little, but I'd like my opponent to notice that I did make my own argument(S). I brought up Tantabus and how he can be a problem. I also pointed out that some people are still afraid of her, and that may be a possibility of her return.

Section 1: Luna thought that she broke the Elements of Harmony, but she was clearly wrong. My oppoenent could easily see the look of fear on Nightmare Moon's face as they reformed by the magicall powers hidden within the main 6. This clearly shows that she can't stop them, and is scared of them. With Discord, he didn't do much, he just took them and sent the main 6 to a maze. Once they found and retrieved the Elements they easily beat Discord. I'd also like to point out that my opponent said that they have failed a lot, but only provided once and they didn't really fail. Theyr were taken from the main 6. They can't use what they don't have.

Section 2: Yes Tantabus is a dream creature, but he can get out and be a problem. Luna said it herself: Tantabus will grow powerful enough to leave the dream world and turn the world into a living nightmare. This sounds like more than a nightmare than a simple dream creature.

Tantabus isn't even a dream creature. A dream creature is created in between reality and the world of dreams and therefore act as a link between the two. They are spider-like creatures, who devour people in the dream world and real world. This falls in with the theory that if someone dies in a dream, they'll die in real life. I say this is a theory because it's "impossible to tell (answer if you're referring to the question)".

http://www.scienceforums.net...
http://www.symbolique.net...

Debate Round No. 3
lannan13

Pro

Section 1: Nightmare Moon didn't fear the Elements of Harmony, but rather the fear of loss. Just as her expression when Luna saw Princess Celestia after the fight. She feared being outcasted and exiled back to the moon. This was more of a fear than that of the elements of Harmony. My opponent is incorrect as the end of Episode 1 season 2 the Mane 6 with the Elements of Harmony fail to defeat Discord leading to the corruption of Twilight. (http://tvtropes.org...)

Section 2: My opponent is contradicting his own points here. We can see that Tantabus is there to punish Luna for Nightmare Moon and thus that episode was more of Luna's punishment and her excessive worrying that is over blown. It is this kind of worrying that put some people in the nut house and definately fits the punishment here.

We can see that Nightmare Moon is completely overrated as my opponent has dropped the following points.
-Nightmare Rarity
-Disappearnce of Celestia
-Nightmare Moon's power against Sombra.
-Nightmare Moon's power growth.
-Elements of Harmony's weakness.
-Gak.

With that I can see no other reason but to vote Pro in this debate.

Thank you.
Dpowell

Con

Section 1: That may be so, but that was because they only work when the mane 6 realize why their frilends in the first place and what friendship really is. Twilight was only corrupted because she lost hope in her friends who were, at the time, corrupted with negative (and to some, an opposite) attitude. Discord knew what it took for the elements to work, so he planned around it. The elements are still stronger than him, all he had to do was out smart the users. His plans failed when Twilight started reading the letters that she had sent to Princess Celestia throughout her time in Ponyville.

Section 2: I haven't contradicted myself at all. To contradict myself, I would have to had said something that went against a point I was trying to prove. All I've done was explain that Tantabus could still be a threat, there is nothing contradicting about that.

Section 3: I'd like to point out that my opponent admitted that I won. If the readers would notice, the title of this debate is "Resolved: Nightmare Moon is an Underrated Character in My Little Pony" with my opponent debating pro. By him saying that she is an overrated character (which is what I'm supposed to defend), he's admitting defeat.
  • Nightmare Moon could come back. Especially if Luna is exopsed to dark magic.
  • Tantabus can still be considered a threat to all of Equestria. Since it spawns form Luna's dreams, she can still be considered a threat for it.
  • My opponent admitted that Princess Luna is overrated and therefore, so is Nightmare Moon.
I thank my opponent for this wonderful opportunity and I wish him luck in his future endeavors.
Debate Round No. 4
2 comments have been posted on this debate. Showing 1 through 2 records.
Posted by whiteflame 2 years ago
whiteflame
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>Reported vote: 9spaceking// Mod action: Removed<

1 point to Con (Conduct). Reasons for voting decision: con broke some rules.

[*Reason for removal*] The voter needs to do more than just state that one side "broke some rules" in order to justify a conduct vote, since this reasoning could be applied to any debate. The voter needs to at least point to the specific rule violation.
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Posted by Richardsonalj 2 years ago
Richardsonalj
I want to join this debate, but I don't know anything about the show. FYI, in my opinion, the show sucks.
3 votes have been placed for this debate. Showing 1 through 3 records.
Vote Placed by Romanii 2 years ago
Romanii
lannan13DpowellTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con was explicitly prohibited from posting rebuttals in Round 2, yet that is precisely what he did... thus, he loses the conduct point.
Vote Placed by Unbelievable.Time 2 years ago
Unbelievable.Time
lannan13DpowellTied
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Reasons for voting decision: Violation of rules by Con.
Vote Placed by Greg4586 2 years ago
Greg4586
lannan13DpowellTied
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Total points awarded:10 
Reasons for voting decision: Con violated the rules that were originally agreed on. Therefore, conduct to Pro